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Thinking of returning to the CM series


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Hey everyone,

I was one of the "early adopters" of the CM franchise back in 2000 and have taken a break since about 2004, primarily when I couldn't run CM anymore on my computers because OS X wasn't supported.

Well, times have changed and I'm thinking about jumping back in. I tried the demo last night. Would everyone agree that it is more or less an accurate representation of the game? I ask because the demo is version 1.10 and I know the game is now in Version 2. Any significant changes I should be aware of? (Honestly, the demo didn't really impress me, I had a tough time moving the camera around effectively and it seemed the graphics were too heavy for my 1 GB Video card - does this sound right?)

Also, if I was to purchase the game, what would I need to purchase? Would I be able to PBEM people if I just purchased CMBN, or do I need the expansion packs as well?

Thanks in advance, gents.

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I never had much issue with the camera controls but I have read many comments from people who have. They could help you out better than I, but the gist of what I have seen is that you get used to it and mapping the more commonly used functions to a mouse with lots of buttons is a big help.

The more recent patch has significant performance optimizations that have increased frame rates on many if not most people's machines, particularly with large scenarios. But predicting how much difference that would make on your system is impossible. I play on a 4 year old laptop with a 1 MB graphics card and do well enough.

You can PBEM anyone with just the base game as long as you are patched up to the latest version. You are just limited to playing scenarios that come with the base game and QBs with base game units.

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You can PBEM anyone with just the base game as long as you are patched up to the latest version. You are just limited to playing scenarios that come with the base game and QBs with base game units.

That is the main limitation as far as I can see. Go for broke and get a pack. The more options you have the more likely you are to get an opponent.

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In terms of gameplay, the biggest difference between 1.10 and the current 2.12 is in the MG modeling -- the suppressive effects of automatic weapons in general was amped up considerably with v2.0, and this does have a measurable effect on gameplay, especially infantry-heavy battles.

There were also some graphics and general visual improvements introduced with 2.0 and 2.1 that may make the game run slightly faster and look a little better on your system, but don't expect huge improvements.

Overall, the 1.10 demo should give you a pretty good idea of what the game is all about. The game has definitely improved since 1.10, but it's still basically the same game.

In re camera movements: Unless you're playing a very large scenario (which I don't think there are any in the demo), a Mac with a 1 GB video card should be able to handle the game on higher detail setting just fine. I have a 2011 iMac with a 512MB card, and battles up to medium-sized maps and forces are quite snappy for me, even on higher detail settings. So I'm not sure what's going on there... do you mean that the graphics are actually stuttering, or are the camera controls just awkward for you? The latter might have nothing to do with hardware; CMx2's camera controls are a little unusual and they take a while to get used to if you're used to how camera controls work in many more mainstream computer games.

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...I had a tough time moving the camera around effectively and it seemed the graphics were too heavy for my 1 GB Video card...

Hi old-timer,

I too am on a Mac and have been playing the new games since CM:BN came out. I trust that you know you can set the keyboard controls to your heart's content from within the game? That might make moving the camera and controlling other functions easier and more intuitive. I admit I am surprised that you are not getting satisfactory performance from your video card. Mine only has a quarter of the VRAM of your and does quite satisfactorily, especially with the games' performance enhancements introduced in recent patches.

Unless you are really strapped for cash and counting pennies, I'd recommend going for the whole enchilada and get the Christmas/New Year's bundle. That way, you get all the latest features, a huge compendium of units, battles, and maps and you save money in the long haul. But it's your call. Always good to see an old face return.

Michael

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If you want to see most of the changes between v1 of the engine (the BN demo) and v2, grab the FI demo and have a go at that. Though the FI version number is 1.xx for the demo, that's FI v1.xx; it's the CMx2v2 engine (how confusing it will be when, for example CMEF v1 has the same v3 engine as BN v3 and FI v2...).

The camera controls were a big hurdle for me, to, and as VaB has said, mapping them to my Logitech G700 buttons was a big step forward (sidescroll for track left and right, track forward and back on the forward and back buttons). Combined with the default panning behaviour with mouse buttons held down, it's entirely usable (I'd like less overrun, to be able to pan up and down at the same time as sideways, and I'd like to be able to turn off the PITA edge-scrolling that I no longer need and which only gets in the way when my mouse cursor gets near the edge of the screen).

I'm surprised a 1GB card is struggling, at least in WeGo (insufficient experience to comment on RT, though I'd guess it strains the hardware a little bit more, overall, having to do the calculations on-the-fly while moving the pixels around too).

If you're coming in, getting v2 (and the patch thereafter) is pretty much essential, I think. It's a step change (only a small step, mostly, as far as gameplay is concerned, but big enough to trip you up :) ) that most seem to have taken, and found worthwhile. Without the modules you can play with others who have them, but not any setup that includes any of the module-exclusive stuff. I'd echo the "get a bundle" sentiments.

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I agree with Womble, grab the Fortress Italy demo. It will give you a better idea of the current state of the CMx2 engine than the CMBN demo. It's more optimized. However, CMBN with Market Garden is even more optimized than CMFI.

And, by the way, a 1GB video card doesn't really mean much. It's the GPU that really matters. If you're running really high resolution then memory becomes more of an issue.

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Camera controls: other than what has already been mentioned, check your options/settings screen. If you're using an AMD/ATI video card, there is a setting box which used to be pre-selected for mouse compatibility. If you've updated your AMD video drivers within the last 2 years, having that setting selected will mess with the mouse. (Amd finally fixed their opengl drivers.)

Otherwise, jump in. The water's fine.

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My one piece of advice is forget CMx1 ever existed and play the game in front of you. Think of CMx1 as that high school sweetheart that you're constantly comparing your current relations to. Those poor women will never be able to measure up to the rosy memories of your first love.

CMBN is discounted $20 on the website so CMBN + the v2.0 upgrade is still cheaper than the standard game price anyway. And follow-on patches are free.

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I would advise that they are really two different games that one plays for different reasons. If you enjoy small "intimate" infantry-based scenarios then CM2 is the best game.

If you enjoy larger maps with up to regimental-sized armor-based scenarios and mobility then CM1 is still your best choice. (We're hoping that CM East Front will finally give us some of the CM1 armor-focused mobility battles we've been missing in CM2.)

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I NEVER got a regimental size battle to work in CMx1. That's an extreme outlier comparison that's unfair. I recall most CMx1 games were roughly the size of CMx2 if you discount the '3 figures = 12 soldiers' abstraction. 200 figures on a map is 200 figures, not an *imagined* 800 soldiers.

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I basically play CMX2 the same way I played CMX1—around a reenforced company of infantry or a bit bigger. Haven't played many strictly armored battles but a battalion would be fine in CMBN. There's no way in hell I'd even consider a regiment in either game.

CMX2 does do smaller engagements MUCH better than CMBB or CMAK ever did. There is a lot more fidelity to the combat (infantry always felt mailed in in CMX1) especially when you consider that a squad can now engage multiple targets not just unit to unit like in the old days.

Mord.

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I always advise new players to take the time to set up/familiarize themselves with the camera controls. That was really the biggest hurdle for me in the beginning. A comfortable configuration for you will depend on what your tastes and personal setup are like. Once you break through the camera controls they become very natural and easy to use, and the rest of the game will come to life.

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It is very possible to play 3-4 battalions of infantry + tank company or two per side, you just need to use the editor to create such games, and of course have a big enough map of which there are quite a few if you take into account the new MG master maps. If you can load the map then the game will handle this amount of troops as well. I've no idea what the engine limit is but 20k points per side is very playable.

CM3 engine should bring even bigger maps to the table, of up to 30km2 so you can create really epic battles with this engine, you just need to be creative about it :)

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I always advise new players to take the time to set up/familiarize themselves with the camera controls. That was really the biggest hurdle for me in the beginning. A comfortable configuration for you will depend on what your tastes and personal setup are like. Once you break through the camera controls they become very natural and easy to use, and the rest of the game will come to life.

Plus one to that.

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The camera controls were never something I had to think about. It has always puzzled me why some get hung up on the camera. But that's me. Now, drop an xbox control pad in my hands and watch how my thumbs really aren't wired into my central nervous system.

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It is very possible to play 3-4 battalions of infantry + tank company or two per side, you just need to use the editor to create such games, and of course have a big enough map of which there are quite a few if you take into account the new MG master maps. If you can load the map then the game will handle this amount of troops as well. I've no idea what the engine limit is but 20k points per side is very playable.

CM3 engine should bring even bigger maps to the table, of up to 30km2 so you can create really epic battles with this engine, you just need to be creative about it :)

Hello if you mention upcoming eastern front game as CM3 engine , it's wrong information

It's made with CMx2 engine as V3.0 as I know

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SPCWRNGLR, we are in the same boat when I originally played CM Normandy using the demo after having played the original combat mission Overlord, the Ussr one and the desert one I thought that combat mission normandy sucked but it was because my computer sucked after I stumbled upon it again the demo ... AFTER having gotten a lot better computer I was like .... dang, I can't live with out this. I only have CM Normandy I am still disecting it fully and downloading scenarios people make and using mods with it that tweak things about it I use a lot of MORD's Stuff and VEINS Stuff and some others this allows you to tweak it like you want it for example I have Mord's, war ravaged faces, US Flag portraits, no music, Immersive American Voices, and then I have specialty German Voices, then some voices has to much cussing so I dug around and edited those voice files so I don't have my guys saying the Lord's name in vain then the background sound was to darn noisey for me and the wind sounds was like I was on top of the Alps all the time to noisey so I tweaked those files and removed all the ambient sounds so until a shot is fired everything is quiet ... just the sounds of the comments of my troops.

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CM2 version 3.0

CM naming conventions aren't standardized across titles.

The old distinction between the original CMx1 and CMx2 is fading into the past as the original game becomes increasingly obsolete.

CMBN (CMx2) started life as v1.00 and is now up to v2.12. CMFI fully upgraded to match is 1.12. When Eastern Front game come out it'll no doubt be v1.00, but CMBN upgraded to match would be v3.0. Will the same CMFI upgrade then be v2.0?

The sequencing makes sense if you just follow each title along its upgrade path. If you treat the different titles as a single giant game then the myriad patches, upgrades and modules look like a maze. :o

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