Operation Market Garden announced!

[Oddball_E8]

Unfortunately sounds tax the computing resources pretty hard. The more varied they are within a battle, the bigger the hit. I'm sure we will add more weapon specific sounds over time, but it will also depend on access to good quality samples. Generally speaking that is an even bigger problem than the performance issues.

No specifics about improvements to urban fighting yet. But I can tell you that the proposed list of changes for v3.0 has about a half dozen on it. Which ones actually make it into v3.0 won't be known for some time yet. That's why we don't talk about the details ahead of time.

Steve

I didn't know that it taxed the system that much.

As for finding good quality samples, like some of us said, we would love it if you just re-used the same sound on multiple sounds since that would save you alot of effort AND let us modders mod to our hearts delight

For example you could have made one 6.5mm MG sound and one 6.5mm Rifle sound for the italians and have the same sound source on both but letting us modders have two different sounds to mod instead of just one used by two sources.

If you know what i mean.

That is true. I have a low end PC and if i use high quality sound mods for CM, it oftens leads to no sounds beeing played at all during large firefights.

I didn't know that even happened.

Maby us modders should get together and make a low-resource soundmod for low-end computers?

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, sound quality (i.e. size) and number of unique sounds used causes the problem. The reason is that CM has to load these sounds into RAM and then transfer them through the audio hardware. The more sounds there are the more CM has to swap them around. The bigger they are the slower the process. The more sounds are needed (i.e. intensive fighting) the more need for the process to be very fast.

In a typical RTS or FPS game there's a lot less potential for needing large varieties of sounds all at the same time. So again we find ourselves being in a position that few other games find themselves in. We can only do so much to work around these problems.

Steve

[The Steppenwulf]

Steve,

I think you might have overlooked my post some pages back. I was hoping for a response but I know you can't read and answer everything. And I'm not claiming that this is in any way a priority.

It was query about the "intel" feature in the scenario editor. At the moment only one side can have advance intel or neither. It always left me thinking what about both sides having a nominal amount of intel or perhaps even one side having more than the other.

I am assuming that the current feature is active for multiplayer scenarios and is not just for single player games. I must be honest I wish I understood more about how it works. It's just that I figured it could add an interesting dimension to MP scenario design and even QB's. What are your thoughts?

[JM Stuff]

Only a suggestion, In this case it's perhaps possible to use mp3 instead wav files?

Well I agree the sound quality were a little bad but most of us will probably enjoy the possibility to make his own sound

[Michael Emrys]

I have thus far been ignored.

As is not only inevitable, but entirely proper.

Michael

[Oddball_E8]

Yes, sound quality (i.e. size) and number of unique sounds used causes the problem. The reason is that CM has to load these sounds into RAM and then transfer them through the audio hardware. The more sounds there are the more CM has to swap them around. The bigger they are the slower the process. The more sounds are needed (i.e. intensive fighting) the more need for the process to be very fast.

In a typical RTS or FPS game there's a lot less potential for needing large varieties of sounds all at the same time. So again we find ourselves being in a position that few other games find themselves in. We can only do so much to work around these problems.

Steve

Would it be possible to make a system like you have now with the texture files?

So you could have say, a wav file named "gun 7.wav" and if you add "[bar]" at the end of that it would play when the bar fires, but only if that file was added?

So the stock game would come with only a few sounds, ensuring that most people can play it, but allowing modders to add more sounds for those who can run it on a heavier system?

(of course, you would still have to have a list for what sounds could be added and such so not every gun has its own sound, but to allow a bit more variety for modders).

Im not trying to be pushy here, just trying to brainstorm

[poesel]

Only a suggestion, In this case it's perhaps possible to use mp3 instead wav files?

Well I agree the sound quality were a little bad but most of us will probably enjoy the possibility to make his own sound

???

First mp3s have to be decoded to be playable. This puts more load on the system.

Second - why do wavs stop you from making a sound mod? Usually a sound source is already a wav and even if your sources are all mp3s you could easily decode them into wavs.

[JM Stuff]

Ok I said mp3 but perhaps it's possible with another light format we have a lot of sound and music files?

All files don't need to be decoded or compressed ?

[Oddball_E8]

Ok I said mp3 but perhaps it's possible with another light format we have a lot of sound and music files?

All files don't need to be decoded or compressed ?

AFAIK .wav files are one of the few formats that don't need to be decoded or decompressed.

Its basically as raw a format as it gets.

but that is not the point I think. The point is that the more different sounds there are the more strain there is on the system.

And then on top of that the system is strained by longer and "larger" sounds being played.

Which is why i was wondering if i should make a low-resource soundmod version of my mod. Something like the one I have now but without echos and making sure that all sounds are short.

(right now I'm running into problems with vehicle sounds since the sounds I'm using are pretty long for example. So if I have many vehicles moving at the same time or alot of combat going on I won't hear the vehicle sounds)

[JM Stuff]

Yeps clear

[Battlefront.com]

I don't want us to get detoured by a discussion of features which have nothing to do with Market Garden. But I'll close the questions about sounds by saying a fairly standard thing:

Yes, we could make all kinds of support for all kinds of different mods and let individuals determine what works best for them. Three problems with that:

1. It takes us time to make such things possible, which means it takes away from other features. Including those which have a stronger "lobby" for change.

2. Battlefront tends to get blamed by customers when they overload their systems. That's a general statement not specific to mods. However, mods make it worse because people don't listen to warnings or don't think they apply to them. "I just loaded SounDude's 500mb sound mod and now my game won't run. I have x system with y components and I feel I should be able to run this, so I blame Battlefront for it not working".

3. Resource hogging mods create other support headaches for us. "X scenario stops loading at 89%" or "during playback my framerate goes down to 2fps". Toss in various statements that it's our fault and you can see where this is headed And if you think customers are nice enough to let us know what mods they are using you obviously haven't seen our support tickets.

Which is to say that there's lots of things we COULD do, but the wisdom of doing them is questionable from our standpoint.

Steve

[Oddball_E8]

I don't want us to get detoured by a discussion of features which have nothing to do with Market Garden. But I'll close the questions about sounds by saying a fairly standard thing:

Yes, we could make all kinds of support for all kinds of different mods and let individuals determine what works best for them. Three problems with that:

1. It takes us time to make such things possible, which means it takes away from other features. Including those which have a stronger "lobby" for change.

2. Battlefront tends to get blamed by customers when they overload their systems. That's a general statement not specific to mods. However, mods make it worse because people don't listen to warnings or don't think they apply to them. "I just loaded SounDude's 500mb sound mod and now my game won't run. I have x system with y components and I feel I should be able to run this, so I blame Battlefront for it not working".

3. Resource hogging mods create other support headaches for us. "X scenario stops loading at 89%" or "during playback my framerate goes down to 2fps". Toss in various statements that it's our fault and you can see where this is headed And if you think customers are nice enough to let us know what mods they are using you obviously haven't seen our support tickets.

Which is to say that there's lots of things we COULD do, but the wisdom of doing them is questionable from our standpoint.

Steve

Heh, copy that Steve.

Was just throwing some ideas around that have been occupying me lately.

Back to the topic at hand!

(but please, add a 2nd 6.5mm sound )

[JM Stuff]

Sorry Guy allowed me a last one

[Buzz]

"I don't want us to get detoured by a discussion of features which have nothing to do with Market Garden...."

So the release date is

[Kenzie]

I just wanted to say that this module looks awesome and I will certainly buy it. I'm all excited and can't wait. I haven't played CM in a while and I've been getting back into it lately, and now this module is almost here.

Why does it have to come out in late summer/early fall right when the fall semester starts? I have school starting next Monday dammit. I've still barely touched the Commonwealth module for CMBN and it still feels like I've barely touched Fortress Italy and Gustav Line either. And now Market Garden comes out? It's all an elaborate conspiracy to get me to fail out of college and work some crappy job for the rest of my life, I swear it! I hope you're happy Battlefront!

[Oddball_E8]

I just wanted to say that this module looks awesome and I will certainly buy it. I'm all excited and can't wait. I haven't played CM in a while and I've been getting back into it lately, and now this module is almost here.

Why does it have to come out in late summer/early fall right when the fall semester starts? I have school starting next Monday dammit. I've still barely touched the Commonwealth module for CMBN and it still feels like I've barely touched Fortress Italy and Gustav Line either. And now Market Garden comes out? It's all an elaborate conspiracy to get me to fail out of college and work some crappy job for the rest of my life, I swear it! I hope you're happy Battlefront!

Because most of the CM players are well into their 30's and 40's? Some even older than that.

So there is no point in taking into account when school starts

[Kenzie]

Because most of the CM players are well into their 30's and 40's? Some even older than that.

So there is no point in taking into account when school starts

Yeah I know. I wasn't exactly being serious there. I just wanted to say that I was looking forward to Market Garden and that not everyone who likes these games is a 40 or 50 year old grognard.

[Oddball_E8]

Yeah I know. I wasn't exactly being serious there. I just wanted to say that I was looking forward to Market Garden and that not everyone who likes these games is a 40 or 50 year old grognard.

Oh i was toooootally being serious.

We don' like you young'uns around here.

Now, git!

[Kenzie]

Oh i was toooootally being serious.

We don' like you young'uns around here.

Now, git!

Oh no! Maybe Battlefront should put an age lock on the forum to keep the riff-raff out. Or maybe the game installer could lock you out if you are below thirty.

Or maybe you would want plenty of young'uns around because we would be really easy to beat in multiplayer. I've never been very good at these games even though I've had them for ages. I still have CMBO laying around somewhere. I must have had that game since I was 12.

[Aragorn2002]

The more young people climb aboard, the better. It will not only secure the future of these games, but will also make them aware of the past. Ahhh, to be young again. ;-)

Thank God my wife is a lot younger than I am. ;-)

[Mord]

Because most of the CM players are well into their 30's and 40's? Some even older than that.

I think Emrys falls in the antediluvian bracket...the Gordian Knot was actually invented to sinch up his codpiece.

Mord.

[umlaut]

Because most of the CM players are well into their 30's and 40's? Some even older than that.

A lot even older than that:

Some months ago there was a thread asking the forumites their age. Last time I calculated the average, the result was: 44,91 years.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107999&highlight=age+average+old

[Oddball_E8]

Hehehe yeah I know.

We are all just poking fun at eachother here.

[agusto]

A lot even older than that:

Some months ago there was a thread asking the forumites their age. Last time I calculated the average, the result was: 44,91 years.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107999&highlight=age+average+old

Actually that result doesnt imply that CM is a game for old men. Interestingly the average age of the CM player is almost equal to the average age in western countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

So appearently age isnt a factor when it comes to the question wich part of society is the target group of CM.

[Kenzie]

I'm not sure why but I enjoyed realistic wargames ever since I was pretty small. I have hex-based wargames laying around and I always liked to build and paint model tanks and things like that. I could never understand why wargames are such a small niche market.