Current pricing model and some suggested improvements

[Michael Emrys]

I did this comparison a while ago. The numbers were averages (and thus vary from anyone's personal experience) from web sites, etc.

Yachting.................................$200,000

Hot air balloon...........................$25,000

Keeping a horse (1 year).............$15,000

Aircraft lessons...........................$6,000

Glider lessons..............................$4,000

Golf (set and 1 year fees)..............$3,300

Going to Pub (1 year)....................$3,000

Civil War Reenacting.....................$3,000

CM (all modules at full price).............$190

Knitting..........................................$50

It does assume you own a computer and most would run CM.

As you can see CM is a relative steal for a hobby. The alternative is that one could knit.

LOL. That's great. You might have included some other popular hobbies, like photography, hiking/camping, flying RC models, etc., but you still wouldn't be spending much less than the ones you list.

Michael

[db_zero]

I spend more on bullets to go shooting every month that I did on Italy.

I can understand the pricing concern for some. There certainly were points in my life where I would have to choose between buying a $50+ game or eating.

Games like this are never going to be mainstream and many youth today don't have the patience required learn this sort of simulation - I don't want to imply all youth as I have some great games going on with some who are younger, but obviously also into history and this sory of stuff.

Overall the trend had been towards mobile and console gaming.

[db_zero]

When I got my first computer in the late 80's and started playing simulations on a computer as opposed to playing boards games it was a different world. The 90's was a golden age for computer gaming. Titles like the V for Victory, M1 Tank Platoon and other hard core military themed sims were popular. Flight sims were also very popular.

Times have changed. If the computing and graphics capability we have today was widely available and cheap back then it would have been very interesting to see what would have been produced.

I'm just happy we have indy producers making titles like CMBN and Italy these days.

[agusto]

You might have included some other popular hobbies, like photography, hiking/camping, flying RC models, etc., but you still wouldn't be spending much less than the ones you list.

Cocaine: 1500€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Heroin: 900€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Cannabis: 300€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Alcohol: 150€/month (single person, 1 bottle of cheap vodka/day)

Combat Mission: 15,80$/month (single person, CM all modules at full price, purchased over a 1 year period)

[warrenpeace]

I'm not sure that I agree that pricing is a huge issue. (Although I am a bit skeptical that the MG module is worth $35. Seems more like a $19.99 to me ).

However, I do think that Battlefront might consider marketing their games a bit more widely. I'd love to see if a 30 second ad on the Military History Channel wouldn't up sales by a significant amount.

[Lt Belenko]

Cocaine: 1500€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Heroin: 900€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Cannabis: 300€/month (single person, 1 gram/day)

Alcohol: 150€/month (single person, 1 bottle of cheap vodka/day)

Combat Mission: 15,80$/month (single person, CM all modules at full price, purchased over a 1 year period)

Cigars: About $100 a month. A few cheep ones during the week. A $10 stick or two on the weekends.

Happy Ending Massage Parlor: I wouldn't know. Ive never been to one.

[Lt Belenko]

I just saw World of Warcraft is down 600K players over the last few months. Now that's some potential CM customer base.

[mjkerner]

However, I do think that Battlefront might consider marketing their games a bit more widely. I'd love to see if a 30 second ad on the Military History Channel wouldn't up sales by a significant amount.

I've always wondered about that too. Seems tailor made for MH Channel's demographics.

[iMolestCats]

I've always wondered about that too. Seems tailor made for MH Channel's demographics.

I bet a short commercial mentioning that CM is the one of the worlds leading tactical wargames, with some review snippets would be well received on the military channel. Could definitely help out with sales i would say.

[agusto]

That is good advertising for a game that trys to be realistic:

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2136&Itemid=68

[John Kettler]

PeterH,

I think you will find the comments at the link show things are far from rosy over on the uber budget, whole armies involved in producing the product (MOH/COD) side of the house.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/ea_no_sequel_unless_medal_honor_sells_least_three_million_copies

Indeed, it would be fair to characterize the PC FPS gamers as pretty torqued off. Why are they torqued off? Other than lousy design and poor story telling, they get a whole 10 hours of gameplay for 60 bucks! Of that $60, $10 is apparently a gratuitous screwing in pricing based on an upcharge which normally goes to console game system producers, but which is effectively extorted from the PC gamers.

Speaking as someone who goes all the way back to the CMx1 CMBO Beta Demo, we played two scenarios (Riesberg and Last Defense) for months on end, like men and women possessed. So fanatical were we that BFC (BTS back then) ultimately provided us with Chance Encounter and finally Valley of Trouble to forestall a revolt before CMBO came out. The CPGH (Cost Per Gaming Hour) was effectively zero. Provided you didn't count in power and Internet bills, snacks, failed relationships, Vitamin D deficiencies, gamer's gut, malnutrition and a few other items in.

We played CMBO for years. People built hordes of maps and hundreds (maybe a 1000+) of scenarios, not to mention who knows how many skins. People are still playing the game, which, in a veritable frontal assault on PC gaming reality, is still being sold and for, I believe, a quite respectable $35 at that. CPGH was effectively nil, despite the entrance costs, if you will.

If we take CMBN, get it with the CW bundle and buy the upgrade, we have a game very much on par with CMFI, in the running for best 20th Century Wargame for the Charles Roberts Awards. In relative terms, I've barely started on the game, but I feel totally safe in asserting I've probably got more gameplay hours on Barkmann's Corner alone than the MOH PC gamers have in their whole game. I've played something like six scenarios, have played no QBs, no PBEM and most definitely haven't attempted to tackle any of the campaigns, yet my/any purchaser who duplicated my buys has a CPGH which would not only make the MOH PC types weep but might also make them homicidal. and that's without exploring the mods, either!

Also, the CMBN Forum needs to be factored into CPGH because, while not gaming per se, it emphatically contributes to the duration, quality and richness of the gaming experience, thus extending the useful life of the game.

All in all, and from the perspective of someone with very few economic resources, there's no doubt in my mind that $60 spent for the CMBN/CW Bundle and Upgrade yields a CPGH of mere pennies, as opposed to the $6 CPGH of MOH. Instead of 10 hours of gaming, try hundreds, if not thousands. Also, as time goes on, the CMBN gaming options radically expand as more scenarios, maps and mods are released. Anyone so inclined could conceivably play the game for years, as in the CMBO case.

I believe BFC delivers phenomenal gaming value per dollar spent, so have no issues with the current pricing or pricing model--particularly if it's the difference between BFC's remaining in business and going out of it!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

I'd love to see if a 30 second ad on the Military History Channel wouldn't up sales by a significant amount.

I am not confident that it would pay for itself. I don't really know what a 30 second tv ad run several times a day over, say, a month would cost, but I have serious doubts that the profits from the extra sales would cover it. Tv advertising is not cheap and you would have to be very optimistic to believe that more than a hundred people are going to be sold by a one month ad campaign.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Happy Ending Massage Parlor: I wouldn't know. Ive never been to one.

Neither have I ever availed myself of the services of a pro, but the rumor is that a good call girl would run about $1,000/night. If you lack the finances to run in such exalted circles, the kind of hooker you could pick up at the bar of a good hotel would be about $100/hour. Or maybe more. If you do this kind of thing every weekend, you are shelling out some serious bucks. Hope you enjoy it.

Michael

[Spinoza]

Common Michael (or whoever happened to be on the hive rooster today) ...of course we want that he enjoy this.

BTW , augosto - the first three : you hugely overpaying . PM me.

[Lt Belenko]

Neither have I ever availed myself of the services of a pro, but the rumor is that a good call girl would run about $1,000/night. If you lack the finances to run in such exalted circles, the kind of hooker you could pick up at the bar of a good hotel would be about $100/hour. Or maybe more. If you do this kind of thing every weekend, you are shelling out some serious bucks. Hope you enjoy it.

Michael

At those rates it still would have been cheeper than my marriage/divorce.

[Hellmann]

Haha.. knitting, yachting, cocaine, cigars, massage parlours and Mr John Kettler as well, brilliant!

I find there is a certain sense of satisfaction whenever I buy another Combat Mission game/module... I haven't got stacks of gold but hey... I still enjoy the process of saving-up to give my money to brave companies who are still putting out interesting games like this, rather than give it to the huge firms who put out the typical "dumbing down" games the corporate marketing execs seem to think the kids want nowadays... I think Battlefront got their prices just right for this ethos. For me, it's more than just the money. It's a kick in the bollocks to big games publishers marketing and PR executives.

Do the kids actually want to play those dumbed-down on-rails COD type games initially though... or is it the corporate marketing execs trying to brainwash them with relentless advertising (and other methods to be found in Edward Bernays' Propaganda), subconsciously bullying them, if you will, into thinking they want to play them? ("Everyone else is playing it, so should you if you want to be popular my son!" whilst using fraudulent Facebook and Twitter polls, fake bribed reviews and "online reputation" PR firms), turning them into malleable dumb and happy consumers? (Simultaneously drugging them with GMO's, Wi-Fi/Cellular microwaves, Sodium Fluoride, Aspartame and antidepressants?)

Either way, I'll carry on voting with my wallet. I don't mean any ill will on anybody but... I'd punch the air shouting for joy to hear the news that [names of major games publishers withheld for legal reasons - you know who they are] finally... finally went bankrupt. The laws of Sun Tsu finally coming to fruition back at them. Rejoice!

But I can't see it happening soon... so long as enough idiots keep buying the product... so the product line continues. It's the same principle as buying cheap hamburgers that are actually harmful to one's health. Apologies for stating the obvious of course; it is in the gaming industry's interest to keep their customers (sorry, "consumers") dumbed-down enough to stupidly buy into their rubbish. I like to think Battlefront treat us gamers with a little more respect than that and not take us for idiots, so I will always thank them by happily buying their "pricier" games. I like to think that if Battlefront ever became as big as the morally-bankrupt major publishers, they would carry on treating us with the same respect.

[PeterH]

Its been really interesting to read a lot of this feedback.

While for the most part I was always personally grateful and willing to pay the price (as is obvious since I already own CM:FI+GL), but I still think there is room to change.

There are things that can be done marketing/PR-wise which most smaller games companies and Indie projects completely ignore.

I hope to see a really well crafted youtube video for the next module which functions as a sort of informative trailer, explaining what CM is and how awesome it is. The cost of production is low, yet the potential yield is very great. If we on the forums all helped spread such a video round it would not be long before it was noticed.

Anyway I got off track. When I said a slow incremental lowering of prices I meant just that. I did not mean a sudden decrease to a 20$ title which we all know would not fund battlefront and just would not work. I was suggesting a 10-15$ decrease from the 90$ cap limit, with less of a decrease for lower costing titles. That is over the space of two-three years.

Anyway I fully support Battlefront and I cannot wait to see more modules which I will be saving up for.

[Michael Emrys]

At those rates it still would have been cheeper than my marriage/divorce.

Wives are often the most expensive hobby there is, easily rivaling the cost of flying a B-29.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Do the kids actually want to play those dumbed-down on-rails COD type games initially though... or is it the corporate marketing execs trying to brainwash them with relentless advertising (and other methods to be found in Edward Bernays' Propaganda), subconsciously bullying them, if you will, into thinking they want to play them? ("Everyone else is playing it, so should you if you want to be popular my son!" whilst using fraudulent Facebook and Twitter polls, fake bribed reviews and "online reputation" PR firms), turning them into malleable dumb and happy consumers?

Hear hear!

That seems to be the way of the holy marketplace. I watched the same phenomenon overtake the recorded music industry back in the late '70s and it pretty much permeates all entertainment (with an occasional island of quality here and there). Actually, I think the corner was turned almost a century ago when it was realized that greater profits resulted from investment in tricky advertising rather than on product improvement. "Sell the sizzle, not the steak," became the byword. And it may well turn out to have been the death knell of civilization as a good thing.

Michael

[Canada Guy]

Lt Belenko,

No one knows you at the happy ending parlour as you keep giving your name as "Lou Tennant"

---

I actually have wondered why CMBB or CMAK have not been made available through Steam or GOG.com? Yes., they have aged, but gracefully and are probably not big sellers but this perhaps would

1. Introduce gamers to CM for a little amount of $

2. generate product awareness and company awareness

3. generate a little amount of $ for BF

Maybe even add CMSF and CMA to that mix as they are older, having been on the shelf for a while, are not going to be expanded but are still great games and use the modern engine. If they are not making much money, perhaps these older games would be a great introduction to CMBN and CMFI where most of the money and resources for new modules are being placed. If Steam gives less money per game, BF may make up for it on volume with the older titles (and generate more customers).

I would not recommend this for the 2 new games where probably the bigger money generation is but for older games, the pros might out weigh the cons.

[MikeyD]

BFC is getting plenty of publicity and eyeballs on the brand with CM:Touch.

Its funny how discussion of the pricing model never argues for higher prices. There was a medical study awhile ago. Some people were given a pill and paid $1, others were given the same pill and paid $20 for it. The patients paying more had better outcomes. It was psychological, people just assume a cheap pill must not be very effective. Expensive pill = placebo effect. If CM was half the price it is you'd have half the respect for it. CM:Touch costs five bucks and though its (apparently) selling like hotcakes nobody's bothering to frequent the discussion site! Why? Because its a $5 game.

[Rocky Balboa]

BFC is getting plenty of publicity and eyeballs on the brand with CM:Touch.

+1

I was a little confused at first when BF released CM touch but now it mmakes a lot more sense. You Release an inexpensive CM:touch to the apple & android market and the people who buy it are now the same target audience that could possibly buy CMx2.

Forget spending money advertising on TV or googl. With CM:touch sales, they now have targeted a proven audience that already understands the brand and the concept. In addition to all that, their making money with the sales of CM:touch to boot. Now that's freaking impressive ....

[noxnoctum]

I think the price of the games is very very reasonable. It's true that there is less content in each itiration than say, with CMBB at release, but this is probably explained by everything by its nature being more time consuming to do in CMx2 (more detailed models etc.)

$55 is standard fare for a new PC game, though we're already seeing many titles being released at ~$60 and it's still going up. This is not only "AAA" releases at all either, some wargames are very expensive at release (see Gary Grisgby's War in the East or the Command Ops games)

Personally I'd rather see the price of the games, content and the size of the dev team all doubled. But maybe that's a bit selfish (I'm not rich by any means, but I do have very few expenses) I was until just recently very broke though so I feel their pain .

If they can't afford the newer titles just have your friends buy CMBB. It's only $25 and easily in the top 3 of best computer wargame ever. I still play it a lot and it doesn't feel dated at all to me.

[Lt Belenko]

BFC is getting plenty of publicity and eyeballs on the brand with CM:Touch.

Its funny how discussion of the pricing model never argues for higher prices. There was a medical study awhile ago. Some people were given a pill and paid $1, others were given the same pill and paid $20 for it. The patients paying more had better outcomes. It was psychological, people just assume a cheap pill must not be very effective. Expensive pill = placebo effect. If CM was half the price it is you'd have half the respect for it. CM:Touch costs five bucks and though its (apparently) selling like hotcakes nobody's bothering to frequent the discussion site! Why? Because its a $5 game.

One pill makes you larger and

One pill makes you small.

The ones your mother gives you do do anything at all.

Which one costs $20?

[sburke]

One pill makes you larger and

One pill makes you small.

The ones your mother gives you do do anything at all.

Which one costs $20?

I dunno, go ask Alice.