c3k Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Since you forgot that you'd toggled the trees to be off, I guess I'll mention that you may want to check to make sure you have not done the same with smoke. Not that _I_ have ever done anything like that. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Welcome to CMBN, and the forum, Bulletfront. As a relative newcomer to the game myself I've been making my share of mistakes (as my patient PBEM opponent can testify) as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 By the way, I agree that this game is one where the "pay for extra content" business model could work well. Aye. Having spent a good chunk of change and time in subs-based MMOs, I'd be comfortable with an auto-patching subscription-based model, myself. That doesn't seem to be a road that BFC feels has an acceptable level of traction for the wheels of its customer base, though. I have yet to play the included maps with the game (I did play and enjoy "Busting the Bocage" in the demo though)... That map is, I'd estimate, a good representation of the maps that come with scenarios and campaigns. Perhaps slightly on the simplistic side of average. It's, again IMO, a "better" map than lots of the CMBN base game QB maps, in that it at least has some thought-through detail and wrinkles for the player that some of the hurried-looking QB maps don't seem to have. I think you'll be pleasantly satisfied now you've found the trees again ...but I could imagine that paying a bit for extra high quality content would be something I would do... This discussion is the first time I've thought that a "micropayment" system for content might be an acceptable model (or at least, I've forgotten if I've thought it before... :-) ). In my abovementioned MMO "career", I've never paid a bean for "extra" content in the "P2P" models, but it doesn't strike me as unreasonable for a "map store" to charge, say $0.50 (or $0.10, or $0.01 whatever it needs to make the system work and remunerate the designers of classy maps and scenarios) to download a new map the first time a player starts a game which uses it. Maps can't be considered "pay to win" and we already accept that we need to pay money for new vehicles and such. And folks who are in it "for the love" could post their work "royalty-free". That is not to say amateurs cannot produce high quality... Indeed. The most astonishingly faithful recreation of a Normandy scene that I've seen was created by a community member. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=109259 Some of the shots take a second look to tell which is the photo and which the CM map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I live in the UK in Suffolk which has similar countryside to that found in Normandy. Suffolk, eh? Let's see if you recognise this location... Fat chance, I know, but you never know. That would be the White Horse pub but there are no pub commercial buildings in CMBN. And I used to love the view across the river Alde. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 That would be the White Horse pub but there are no pub commercial buildings in CMBN. Dam PT I love the way the detail is for the surrounding area 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 "... just that in my experience with fan-made content it's been hit or miss.." Well each to their own, old chap. Speaking personally, having been plugging my way through the Scottish Campaign under 2.01, I have revised my opinion of Paper Tiger. If, as I sincerely hope, I get to meet the chap one day I am going to beat him to death immediately - no option of a drinkie or two first and no chance of me using a haddock. If you haven't already you must try his Road to Montgarde campaign because it is a masterpiece. Nor is Mr. Tiger alone. GeorgeMC and several others are also deserving of citations/lingering death. So the idea that "amateurs" don't produce good product just don't hold up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 "... just that in my experience with fan-made content it's been hit or miss.." Well each to their own, old chap. Speaking personally, having been plugging my way through the Scottish Campaign under 2.01, I have revised my opinion of Paper Tiger. If, as I sincerely hope, I get to meet the chap one day I am going to beat him to death immediately - no option of a drinkie or two first and no chance of me using a haddock. If you haven't already you must try his Road to Montgarde campaign because it is a masterpiece. Nor is Mr. Tiger alone. GeorgeMC and several others are also deserving of citations/lingering death. So the idea that "amateurs" don't produce good product just don't hold up. Maybe it's just that I'm not a native English speaker, but I was under the impression that "it's been hit or miss" meant that sometimes it's good, sometimes not - at least that's what I wanted to say And speaking of Roat to Montgarde, I just began that campaign, as forum member Pak40 suggested I start with. Just completed the first mission, the D-day landing, and enjoyed it very much - apart from some tactical blunders in the last 2 turns that cost me dearly.. The map layout was brilliant, and the only thing I wondered about was whether bocage is used so close to the seaside? Have never been to Normandy, so I have no idea, really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuhhodge Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Paper Tiger Those locations are a little north of me. We're in south Suffolk these days although we still have a house in Needham Market. I would hazard a guess that the area from Wickham Market north towards Halesworth and Beccles is a good Normandy substitute, but if you want bocage come down to Polstead. As for forgetting ALT-T....been there... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Bulletpoint, Another thought to remember is that as the game matures, so too do the skills of the designers. Early maps and battles, like those that ship with the game, will be surpassed by later efforts. As the game is patched, some gameplay foundations get shifted. What was balanced in v1.00, may be a cakewalk in v2.01. Or vice versa. Map makers adopt one another's best practices. As one good idea gets created, it spreads to others. For example, many early maps have "hidden" bocage gaps. Many later maps have dirt tiles underlying the bocage gap, making them much more visible to the player. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 By the way, I agree that this game is one where the "pay for extra content" business model could work well. I have yet to play the included maps with the game (I did play and enjoy "Busting the Bocage" in the demo though), but I could imagine that paying a bit for extra high quality content would be something I would do, if I could be certain that quality would be high, both with regards to map layout for gameplay, lots of AI work, and maybe even extra flavour objects and details to bring the locations to life. I just love attention to detail. That is not to say amateurs cannot produce high quality, just that in my experience with fan-made content it's been hit or miss. I would pay extra for content with a professional level of polish and fine-tuned gameplay balance and challenge, no matter if it had been designed in a game developer office or by a fan. It was me who created 'Busting The Bocage' and I'm an amateur scenario designer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yes, George Mc is the amateur scenario designer that other amateur scenario designers aspire to be tudhodge Yup, that's the general area alright. The two roads in the photos are the A1120 and the B1120, close to Framlingham where I used to live. Such a beautiful, quiet place to live, except when the farmers were spraying their fields with chicken poop. That's a pre-Montebourg era map as well. I learned how to use the CMBN editor by recreating the village I lived in in as close detail as the editor would allow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 So, the reason I post this is basically that I want to send feedback, and at the same time ask if I am the only one who was disappointed by this? Well i ve been dissapointed by some maps and some campaigns too, but in general i am very much enjoying the game. As Steve said, your issue fits into the "cant please everybody" category, i guess. Also i cant agree with you on that point that amateur content is usually not as good as the content that comes with the game - some of the best scenarios/campaigns i played were amateur content! Anyways, if you want to play a historically acurate scenario with lots of details, i recommend you this one, "Wittmann's Demise", made by George MC: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2638 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 And speaking of Roat to Montgarde, I just began that campaign, as forum member Pak40 suggested I start with. Just completed the first mission, the D-day landing, and enjoyed it very much - apart from some tactical blunders in the last 2 turns that cost me dearly.. The map layout was brilliant, and the only thing I wondered about was whether bocage is used so close to the seaside? Have never been to Normandy, so I have no idea, really. Click the following link: look familiar? https://maps.google.com/maps?q=utah+beach,+normandy,+france&hl=en&ll=49.400906,-1.169089&spn=0.00597,0.016512&sll=30.032996,-89.882563&sspn=0.508257,1.056747&hnear=Utah+Beach,+50480+Sainte-Marie-du-Mont,+Manche,+Basse-Normandie,+France&t=h&z=17 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMolestCats Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Click the following link: look familiar? https://maps.google.com/maps?q=utah+beach,+normandy,+france&hl=en&ll=49.400906,-1.169089&spn=0.00597,0.016512&sll=30.032996,-89.882563&sspn=0.508257,1.056747&hnear=Utah+Beach,+50480+Sainte-Marie-du-Mont,+Manche,+Basse-Normandie,+France&t=h&z=17 LOL it is so weird seeing that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I know. Every Montebourg map was crafted from looking at Google Earth especially when Street View was available, and eliminating any modern looking structures. No scenario editor overlay back in those days so it all had to be done through carefully measuring distances, etc. There is a Street View of the Hameau Road at the back of Beau Guillot and the road looks like it's lined by bocage, or at least tall hedges so I went with tall bocage when making the map. I know most of you are utterly wowwed by MacIsle's map but really, the only thing he did differently from the maps made by most of the Beta team, and many of the community-made maps as well, was to post photos of the real-world locations side by side with his screenshots. That's not to make light of the effort he put in to making that map. We all know how difficult it is to make them as accurately as that and so kudos to the guy for putting in the hours to get it as right as possible. The guys on the Beta team really do put in a lot of effort to get their maps as accurate as possible when modelling a real-life place. They're no slackers when it comes to making their maps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Anyways, if you want to play a historically acurate scenario with lots of details, i recommend you this one, "Wittmann's Demise", made by George MC: I've got nothing but respect for GeorgeMc's work. Not only are his maps in a class all of their own but he really does seem to have nailed the armour/combined arms aspect of the game down in a way that I fear I never will have. I can't wait to play his East Front missions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizou Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Both PT and George MC make amazing work. There are other excellent scenario designers and map makers as well. They might not get paid for their work but they are far from amatures in my book. Hats of for these guys and big thanks for all the hard work that bring us so much joy! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ok, this is very embarassing for me, but ... trees and vegetation were in fact toggled off (!) It all becomes much clearer now Thanks for being big enough to post a correction. Speaks positively about your character. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I've got nothing but respect for GeorgeMc's work. Not only are his maps in a class all of their own but he really does seem to have nailed the armour/combined arms aspect of the game down in a way that I fear I never will have. I can't wait to play his East Front missions. Me too.... How many sleeps before we get that!!! Ohh well back to your Epic of the "THE ROAD TO......." Still wading my way through that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Forgive me yes GeorgeMc is another along with PT that make superb scenarios and CMx2 is a thousand times richer because of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Bulletpoint, the real game begins when you start playing human opponents using Dropbox and H2HH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I must say each and everyone of you out there should get down on your knees and thank whichever god you pray to that I have not made any scenarios or maps for you to be utterly repulsed by. After I saw a few of GeorgeMc's map's I knew that since you wouldnt be marveled by my map making skills I could secretly wish for him to be modeled in the game so I could run divisons of rusty Nashorn's over his little body in true bocage style. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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