ww2steel Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Okay, having played this series since CMBO was a brand new game... how did it manage to get stupid? (...trying to stay constructive...) Okay, the GRAPHICS are improved, but at what cost. This armor package for the entire front gets a red x against a medium sized bullet icon thingy???? What is this, Atari? I liked the first simulation because it was a SIMULATION, not a game. This is a game. I did research and wrote hundreds of pages testing what was actually a very good armor engine and mixed it in with real life facts to make some really nice manuals for myself. You could actually use CM1 series for limited research, forget it now. This is the most cumbersome UI I think I have ever encountered in a game. Ever. I want to get in and either test something or just entertain myself by blowing stuff up for a half hour (not set crap up for a half hour to find that… it didn’t work anyway). I want a random map with random troops for a quick battle. A 'quick battle' takes like 20 mins to even get to the friggin map now! Then you set up all of your carefully, tediously, annoyingly picked troops (damn it I just want a platoon of infantry and a tank!) to find that after spending 30 more minutes to get across the map you are either facing 4 AT guns piled up within 3 meters of each other, or four Stugs all facing the wrong way and unresponsive (at least until one of your dumb ass infantrymen takes a shot at the commander’s head from two hundred yards away an gets the entire squad slaughtered, yes, another AI fault), or a company of armored cars that a single Sherman could take out because there is no supporting anything with them. You should be able to go in, and either have the PC autopick (intelligently!!!) or you pick the way you always used to, have the AI gen up a functional map, and have the AI either attack or defend as appropriate. WHAT HAPPENED TO AI?????????? SERIOUSLY?! WHAT HAPPENED TO RANDOM MAPS????!?! We even lost the ability (as I have found so far) of loading the last battle’s troops for some kind of continuity. Why has this 'game' lost everything that made it good at the cost of... an exhaust plume and jiggly wheels, crews that bail out right in front of the enemy because you pressed the wrong key and haven’t modded the file yet? Seriously, what’s better about the new engine??? Why do I even bother to post? It has nothing to do with the money wasted on CMSF or CMBN, it’s because this (was) my all-time favorite game for roughly ten years. And now it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 All the "issues"/"features" you bring up have been well publicized by BFC and discussed here on the forum ad nauseam for quite a long time. Most of them were also a part of CMSF, so you could have learned of many of these changes 3 years ago by trying the CMSF demo. You really should have done a bit of reading and tried the demo(s) before laying down your cash. I myself am quite taken with CMBN, and it's clear from the traffic here on the forum that a lot of other people like it too (not that I don't think there's room for improvement in places). To be sure, there are others not so taken with the new game engine. But anyway, sorry it's not your cup of tea. Good news is, you can still play any CMx1 game, or any other game of your choice, to your heart's content. But for the record, if you're "trying to stay constructive", you're not doing a very good job of it. If the game really sucks for you, then obviously it's a waste of your time to post here and you should go play something else. If you actually do want to stick around and offer constructive criticism that might lead to future game improvements, then I would respectfully suggest that change of tone will be more likely to garner positive results. You know, the whole "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You may change your mind about this over time. Sure, there are faults and omissions, but I think the series will really shine once the teething troubles have been solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I wonder why the idea that the OP is trolling for his website comes to mind... maybe he/she realizes there is a substance far more effective at attracting flies than either honey and vinegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I totally agree that there are many really annoying issues with the AI that need to be fixed but I've decided to relax and see what the patches and modules hold. I just don't think BF are lazing around laughing at your broken heart while raking in the money on their "known inoperable" game. Why would they want to create another CMx1 copy, they had to move forward into the modern game world. Moving foward equals loads of added complexity and massive unknowns. No modern 3D game is perfect on release, especially since BF doesn't have anywhere near Blizzard Entertainment-like resources. I think the hardcore data and simulation-type complexity is still there, it's just more under the hood and less obvious than in CMx1. Just chill, be thankful that CMx1 brought you so much happiness and move on if the game continues to suck for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 meh... /10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malcolm Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Random maps might have been OK in CMx1... though even then it was hit or miss. I personally prefer to have a playing area that someone's put a bit of time and effort into. In a 2 player Quick Battle both players might be familiar with the terrain from playing on it previously. So what? Read anything about Normandy in 1944 and it's clear that the same areas, hills, towns and villages changed hands several times and where often fought over for weeks. If setup areas and perhaps even objectives could be slightly randomised in QB maps then that would be even better. Take a chill pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm so sorry, Sir, but the 300+ post "emotional rant and rave because-its-not-what-I-wanted-for-Christmas" train just recently passed through here and summarily crashed into a mountain. Sorry you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ww2Steel, Seriously man? Really? Really? I swear you guys aren't playing the same game that I'm playing. Either that or maybe you have access to some other much better game that you're comparing CMBN to. Surely it can't be CMx1, because CMBN is more complex in almost every single way. Something tells me you just don't understand what you're looking at. I mean, minor problems exist in every piece of software ever made, but come on dude. The game does not suck by any stretch of the imagination. This might help you. http://www.na.org/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I'm so sorry, Sir, but the 300+ post "emotional rant and rave because-its-not-what-I-wanted-for-Christmas" train just recently passed through here and summarily crashed into a mountain. Sorry you missed it. If you have the Steelbook copy, some might want to take it off your hands if you decide this is not your cup of Java. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Okay, having played this series since CMBO was a brand new game... how did it manage to get stupid? (...trying to stay constructive...) Okay, the GRAPHICS are improved, but at what cost. This armor package for the entire front gets a red x against a medium sized bullet icon thingy???? What is this, Atari? I liked the first simulation because it was a SIMULATION, not a game. This is a game. I did research and wrote hundreds of pages testing what was actually a very good armor engine and mixed it in with real life facts to make some really nice manuals for myself. You could actually use CM1 series for limited research, forget it now. The UI graphics for protection are just a rough guide. The under the hood modelling of armor and penetration is far, far more realistic and detailed than CMx1. In fact, so detailed that trying to translate it into UI graphics that would be easy to understand is a huge problem. It would be lovely to have easy access to all that data from within the game, but 1. Not every player would be interested. 2. There are many other features that could be added that would interest every player. WHAT HAPPENED TO AI?????????? SERIOUSLY?! WHAT HAPPENED TO RANDOM MAPS????!?! We even lost the ability (as I have found so far) of loading the last battle’s troops for some kind of continuity. Why has this 'game' lost everything that made it good at the cost of... an exhaust plume and jiggly wheels, crews that bail out right in front of the enemy because you pressed the wrong key and haven’t modded the file yet? Seriously, what’s better about the new engine??? Why do I even bother to post? It has nothing to do with the money wasted on CMSF or CMBN, it’s because this (was) my all-time favorite game for roughly ten years. And now it sucks. The CMx1 random maps were horrible, and you would have to roll a new one over and over again just to get something playable (and likely still totally implausible). An unlimited number of user-crafted QB maps can be added to CMBN, and each can have multiple AI plans crafted by a human for that particular map. The replayability is near endless without enduring the nonsense of computer-generated terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 WW2 Steel. You are wasting your time by coming on these forums and dare to complain about BF or anything they produce. As soon as you have raised an issue you will be jumped upon by the sworn defenders of BF. This image holds some truth as this is what will likely happen to you if they find out where you live. These same people would buy a sh^££y stick if it had the BF Logo on it because they all know by looking into their crystal balls that BF will remove the Sh^£ later. You should have known this by "trying the CMSF demo". Oh wait, I thought it was a different game unless there are some Syrians dug in near Carentan. Watch out for the T-72. You will be ok as long as you keep a tree between it and yourself. They have had three years to get it right but still it the buyers fault for not checking out the other game first so you would know what you were buying. Always remember the first rule of the forum; search all the posts dating back to the year dot before you raise any relevant concerns. That way you will avoid the condesending "This has already been discussed, blah, blah, blah" comments. Set aside at least an hour or two to do this. Remember you don't get this time added to your life expectancy. See image. I like posts like yours. It lets me know what is broken in the game as I have stopped playing it until it is patched. Thank god for CMSF. Those three years were worth the wait. Love it. Best course is to wait and see if the game is finally patched to standard in three years then maybe the fan boy brigade will cut you some slack. Until then remember the second rule of the forum; baton down the hatches. Post only applies to a small minority. Small being the operative word as it appears to have gone over some other people's heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I tried playing CMx1 after I got into CMSF, being a newcomer into the series with CMSF. It's almost unplayable for me, I really couldn't get any enjoyment out of it. You "OMG CM:BN is such a backwards step" chaps have serious rose tinted spectacles on I think. edit: And I've not found CM:BN all that buggy either.. I mean, yeah, a few bugs, but playable enough and I don't feel hard done by.. you should have tried playing Hearts of Iron III when it first came out, or Civ V. now they had so many bugs that some of the bugs were buggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 BFC like the legitimate complaints all right mind you, just the drama queen stuff is starting to get "the roll your eyes" treatment, not because some think it's a perfect game, but because it has been dealt with many times before and a quick search won't hurt at all. In lieu of a quick search, some will give helpful posts for the umpteenth time, some will post condescending replies. Unlike a poster earlier saying it's a waste of time to complain, some changes have already been made in the latest patch because/due to forumites unearthing legitimate bugs and voicing said issues in a specific, clear, rational way. It's also OK to voice general unspecific complaints - perceived or not - but it aint helpful for the BFC/beta-testers in chasing them down, so these complaints get usually ignored. And there were some annoying bugs mind you, some you already mentioneded, that has already been fixed in patch v1.01. Just rest assured, the known bugs unearthed will be worked at and will be sorted out in due time. Of that, BFC's track record since CMBO-days are testament. Obviously no amount of bug fixing is going to satisfy you if you believe that CMx1 is more fun then CMx2. But that is to be expected as change/evolution is not always welcome by some. Since you made a canyon sound echo, I gather you won't be scared of the sound coming back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 A 'quick battle' takes like 20 mins to even get to the friggin map now! If it takes you 20 min to pick a QB map perhaps you're not... competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 WW2 Steel. You are wasting your time by coming on these forums and dare to complain about BF or anything they produce. As soon as you have raised an issue you will be jumped upon by the sworn defenders of BF. There are at least 2 issues that I have complained about on these forums that have been added to the fix list for the patch because of those complaints. So its not true that complaining is a waste of time. As for fanboys or whatever you call them, I guarantee that if you go to almost any forum for any game on the internet and make a post that basically says "This game sucks!" you are going to get attacked for it. People who are active on a game forum are usually people who like the game. That's just the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Dismissing someone's opinion by labeling them a "fanboi" is just as much an ad hominem attack as labeling someone a "hater." Neither is particularly convincing, in my book. I certainly don't begrudge anyone their opinion, and if you don't like the game, ultimately that's your taste and there's not much more that can be said about that. But if you lay out the reasons for your negative opinion in a coherent, respectful manner, this can sometimes be helpful and productive. And if you feel the need to just post an incoherent rant about how disappointed you are, and then go off on your merry way, I guess that's OK, too. Such behavior is not likely to influence the direction of the game development much, but everyone needs to blow off steam sometimes. However, when someone initiates a post saying that they are "trying to be constructive", and then launches off into a rant, that's just disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You're too nice to the troll, YankeeDog. To paraphrase Samuel Johnson: Shouting "Fanboi" is the last refuge of a scoundrel. And there sure has been a number of scoundrels around lately. Constructive my a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Some people just miss the whole point of the post. The issue is not about complaining and getting things fixed which is what the forum is suppose to do and thankfully does. It is about a minority of people on the forum who attack anyone who speaks out against the game. It doesn't take long for the bandwagon to start rolling. I had hoped it had crashed. Leave the moderating of post to the moderators, not the self proclaimed forum henchmen. I believe the Mafia use to recruit here but that could have a rumor. I didn't say I didn't like the game and I'm not in a position to spend a total of $80 on it and just be on my merry way because it doesn't work as it is suppose to. I stopped playing because of the bugs which most of I've found out about on the forum. The game has potential as did CMSF when it came along. I really enjoy playing SF and have a lot of fun with it. I expect I will do with BN as well. As a final point, I'm not interested in how other forums are run but there are a lot more friendlier games forums out there where people try to help people and don't reach for the AA canons as soon as an issue is raised or raised more than once. People have a right to complain if they are unhappy with the product just as people have a right to be delighted with their purchase. I'm delighted with my purchase because I've looked ino my crystal ball (previous purchases) and I am almost certain the game will be patched/fixed. Nothing in life is certain, except here sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 You're too nice to the troll, YankeeDog. To paraphrase Samuel Johnson: Shouting "Fanboi" is the last refuge of a scoundrel. And there sure has been a number of scoundrels around lately. Constructive my a$$. Thank you for proving the point. Which instrument do you play? Got to be woodwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thank you for proving the point. Which instrument do you play? Got to be woodwind. ahh here we go again. 2 days of blissful relief from the juvenile posters was about all we get I guess. Woodwind, yeah good one. That really raised the bar for having a rational discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 These same people would buy a sh^££y stick if it had the BF Logo on it because they all know by looking into their crystal balls that BF will remove the Sh^£ later. You should have known this by "trying the CMSF demo". Oh wait, I thought it was a different game unless there are some Syrians dug in near Carentan. Watch out for the T-72. You will be ok as long as you keep a tree between it and yourself. They have had three years to get it right but still it the buyers fault for not checking out the other game first so you would know what you were buying. Believe it or not, but there is a demo for CMBN. You really do have the pulse of this community, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 ahh here we go again. 2 days of blissful relief from the juvenile posters was about all we get I guess. Don't worry, school starts back up in 4-6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Believe it or not, but there is a demo for CMBN. You really do have the pulse of this community, don't you? Wasn't my quote about should have tried the demo. Read the posts from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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