Javaslinger Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 For a number of reasons my interest in CMSF never compared to that of the WWII centric Combat Mission... First and foremost was the fact that the modern era interested me vastly less than that of WWII and secondly the wondrous customization and quick battles had been redesigned to something I was less thrilled with... Is Battle for Normandy going to bring back my lost love for Combat Mission? Has all the design and engine bugs been squashed in the prior modern era releases so that BFN is truly the holy grail??? Thanks for your thoughts, Javaslinger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 In my opinion, it's great. It's got many improvements over cmsf and all the good from it. It really is a good representation of ww2 combat. Try the demo! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Give the demo a try... CMBN upon release has WAAAAAY less issues than CMSF did...and what issues have/may pop up...well I think BFC proved they are dedicated to fixing things...I've only played one scenario, half of one in the demo, and done a bunch of testing and mod stuff, but have to say...CMBN is like a portal into the past...I feel like I am dealing with real men and real weapons...long gone are the days of lumpy infantry abstractions and the like...it's grit and mud and blood, in your face and hellacious. There's a depth of realism and simulation that takes a while to understand/see...but when you do, you'll be really blown away. I am digging it...it's what I'd dreamed CMBO was back in 2000. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If you'll take the time to get accustomed to the interface and commands, you'll love it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Give the demo a try... CMBN is like a portal into the past...I feel like I am dealing with real men and real weapons...long gone are the days of lumpy infantry abstractions and the like...it's grit and mud and blood, in your face and hellacious. There's a depth of realism and simulation that takes a while to understand/see...but when you do, you'll be really blown away. I am digging it...it's what I'd dreamed CMBO was back in 2000. Mord. I'll second that. However let me start with - don't go in with a preset notion based on CMBO. Take it as a brand new game, don't focus on what you miss from CMBO or you will waste time better spent on learning the new game. And it is worth the learning. I never got caught up in CMBO with an individual trying to turn the tide of a battle singlehandedly and I have seen it a number of times already in CMBN. And the loss you feel when that individual gets killed is a testament to the immersion. Battlefront have really outdone themselves with this, just go through the first impressions thread if you want to get a large audience reaction. It is overwhelmingly positive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Is Battle for Normandy going to bring back my lost love for Combat Mission? Has all the design and engine bugs been squashed in the prior modern era releases so that BFN is truly the holy grail??? Thanks for your thoughts, Javaslinger It's close. It ain't the finished article, but it's better, so far, IMO (and any other caveat you want to tack on there ) by quite a long chalk, than CMx1. Some things to do before you even get into the demo, of you're a CM1er: Read the manualPay special attention to the bit about customising hotkeys, and use that to activate the alternate hotkey file provided with the game.Decide that you're going to remember that changes haven't been made for change's sake, but to implement a much less abstract modelling of the environment and unit behaviour and characteristics....Profit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'll second that. However let me start with - don't go in with a preset notion based on CMBO. Take it as a brand new game, don't focus on what you miss from CMBO or you will waste time better spent on learning the new game. And it is worth the learning. I never got caught up in CMBO with an individual trying to turn the tide of a battle singlehandedly and I have seen it a number of times already in CMBN. And the loss you feel when that individual gets killed is a testament to the immersion. Battlefront have really outdone themselves with this, just go through the first impressions thread if you want to get a large audience reaction. It is overwhelmingly positive. I agree...definitely approach it as something new...I think it's harder though for some, when they didn't spend 4 years with CMSF... And ABSOLUTELY on the one man can change a situation and immersion! I was playing a game last night and this Lt was leading two men in his small squad, they'd just taken out an AT gun when another fired on them...the looey was off to the side and his guys were killed instantly...he continued on...ended up killing seven Germans and taking out a bunker on his own. Really cool....I was really digging this guy...and happily enough he made it through. I gave him a Silver Star. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookeylou Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 As long as you don't equate bugs with learning how things really work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Decide that you're going to remember that changes haven't been made for change's sake, but to implement a much less abstract modelling of the environment and unit behaviour and characteristics. Spot on. One thing I'm finding is that CMBN is much more about realistic simulation and maybe (clearly a matter of opinion) less about being a fun game. This is something that's been explored a bit in Gautrek's thread. CMBN is fantastically realistic, and has infinite "oh wow" movie moments. But having played it intensively (for me) since it came out, and no CMx1 in that time (not intentionally, I just broke my CMx1 install!), I finally got back yesterday to a CMx1 game that I am way overdue with. The experience was "oh wow, this is just so much easier to drive, I can play the game instead of fight with the "reality" of it all". Take smoke. In CMx1 you can turn it off visually, so you can see what you are doing. In CMBN, I'm choking around in a great smoke cloud I created to cross a ford, trying to find out what problems my guys are having and not being able to see a thing. Or Trees. It's now very very realistic (leaves popping up from MG fire passing through them) but gameplay wise they are now a problem. 1) It's much harder to quickly assess LOS lines in a map. 2) You want them turned off close so you can see your guys, but if you turn them off and order fire through them, your guys will fire HE through them that blows up en route. Or easily seeing an overview of what your guys are doing. In CMx1 you can zoom out and then scale up the units. And a myriad of other "little things" that make CMx1 *game* play smooth. Most of these things are about realism and simulation. In threads where these gameplay things have come up, someone always say "but it's more realistic how it is". This is true. The extreme of this is that when the battalion HQ dies, you should get a bullet through your head. It makes for increased realism, but that's not the same _automatically_ as an improved _gaming_ experience. Something to be aware of. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 GAJ...Alt K toggles smoke. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Yay, that's one instant improvement :D (bend over coughing up phosphor, reaches for ALT-K) I'm consicious that many of the little things I refered to may either already be OK, I just don't know about it (like ALT-K) or will be fixed as soon as BFC gets to them ... clearly usability will improve with time. But I do think that there's a real tension between "ultimate realism" and "ultimate fun in a game". Obviously if being completely real was fun we'd all be in the army And I was genuinely surprised how much fun CMAK was when I went back to it, because I was thinking "oh dear, I have to finish this game" until I sat down to it... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 And there is another example of learning the game and UI before coming to an opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Most of these things are about realism and simulation. In threads where these gameplay things have come up, someone always say "but it's more realistic how it is". This is true. The extreme of this is that when the battalion HQ dies, you should get a bullet through your head. It makes for increased realism, but that's not the same _automatically_ as an improved _gaming_ experience. Something to be aware of. GaJ That's Ctrl alt del /D to toggle that feature on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 And there is another example of learning the game and UI before coming to an opinion. Yes - it certainly takes time to learn the whole UI. I don't think that precludes having both an opinion at any given time, and also an open mind a about what might be behind that opinion. Cheers, GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 GAJ...if you stick with the game, and not shelve it, I'll guarantee you will have a totally different feeling about it next year. Once you erase CMX1 UI/Commands from your mind it'll change...I say it because a lot of us have been there. CMSF was our proving ground. I took to it quickly...others longer...but most of us CMSF regulars are pretty comfy with it now. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Take smoke. In CMx1 you can turn it off visually, so you can see what you are doing. In CMBN, I'm choking around in a great smoke cloud I created to cross a ford, trying to find out what problems my guys are having and not being able to see a thing. GaJ Try Alt+k Remember, artillery does'nt care about smoke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Beat ya to it, Joch! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Beat ya to it, Joch! Mord. Inside joke. I'm on the other side of the PBEM where he is trying to cross the ford. All my men are wondering why he is sending up smoke signals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Ahhh...LOL sorry. Good luck! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 GAJ...if you stick with the game, and not shelve it, I'll guarantee you will have a totally different feeling about it next year. Once you erase CMX1 UI/Commands from your mind it'll change...I say it because a lot of us have been there. CMSF was our proving ground. I took to it quickly...others longer...but most of us CMSF regulars are pretty comfy with it now. Mord. Was going to say exactly the same thing...approach CMBN with an open mind...and it takes a different style of play which will become second nature...I have alot more fun with CMBN than I did even with CMBO...though it didn't take me to long getting used to the game engine with CMSF...which ment I could dive straight into CMBN...also I hadn't played CMBB for a couple of years leading upto my foray into CMSF...which ment I wasn't comparing the games in my mind all the time...this also helped me alot with hindsight....I approached it from scratch without preconceived ideas... Honestly as the game expands with future modules (the modules for CMSF just made the game better and better) you wont look back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I'm biased, so my opinion doesn't count About the "fun" thing... it's so subjective. Many CM:SF guys loved CMx1 games as much as anybody else, but now can't find they can go back to playing them. Some CM:BN players have already said this. But why that is, exactly, is not just one thing. Some like CM:BN more now because of the increased atmosphere made possible by everything looking more realistic. More detailed terrain, more detailed units, individual soldiers, better special effects, etc. Some like CM:BN more now because of the increased realism made possible by the increased fidelity of the modeling. For wargamers who value realism above everything else, there's much to love about the new game that wasn't in the old game. Others love the RealTime option, better Fog of War, new QB system, or some other feature which for them is really central to their enjoyment. Obviously some fit into all of the above. This is not to say that people can NOT find all of these things "less fun" or "not as good" as CMx1. Since "fun" is a personal opinion, based on personal tastes and expectations, it's bound to happen. As I point out so often, there's plenty of wargamers that still hate just about everything CM, old and new. For them they aren't "fun". Most GAMERS think none of the CM games are "fun". So if you hear someone saying that they feel CM:BN is more or less "fun" than CMx1, understand that they are only speaking for themselves. Which makes it all the more important to play the Demo and see what you think, because unless you've got an exact clone out there, nobody is going to be able to really assess "fun" for you except for yourself. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I totally agree with that. FWIW GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I figure if you liked CMx1 you'll like CM:BN. Whether you'll like it more, I can't say. And if you play the demo and find yourself saying, "How do I do xxxx?", head back here and I'm sure someone can tell you how to use the UI to do what you want. I will say that if you value playing another human, you'll love CM:BN as you'll have far more opportunities to do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 But I do think that there's a real tension between "ultimate realism" and "ultimate fun in a game". Obviously if being completely real was fun we'd all be in the army That's very subjective though, for some Call of Duty is realistic enough, for others the "ultimate realism" of CoD is too much. I personally like any feature that brings CM closer to a realistic depiction of combat and it's outcomes, the AAR of Operation Storm 333 was a classic example, the fact that he got so close to the real world outcome was incredible, you can be playing and think "yeah this is how it might have happened". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karac Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Like everyone said, keep an open mind and I thing You love the game. It's different but equally great IMHO. I still like to play CMx1 and I don't think I'll quit it any time soon. Brings back old memories, has its own, uniqe style:) Actually my problem is that I like alot of wargames and I sometimes would like to play them all at once. CMx1, CMSF, CMBN, CC, HTTR, Harpoon and much more. Each of them are great, each deliver something different but the gameply is always a pure fun for me. So much to do and so little time;) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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