MengJiao Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 What's most gratifying to me is seeing the scenarios play out like little stories. That's what made CMBO such an addicting game. I think the nit-picking about grenades and bailed crews, besides being what gamers do by nature, is result of the great storytelling ability of the game. The downside to the huge leaps the graphics have made since CMBO may be a foray into the "uncanny valley". CMBO was kind of a cartoon of those tactical board games I loved come to life. Little things could be fudged and it wasn't so jarring. This looks to be so close to an actual film that any little deviations from what each gamer perceives as realistic is going to be pounced on, because when things get that close to looking real that's what the mind does. What a great time to be a gamer! You may need to explain uncanny valley. I know what you mean (I think the term was coined in dealing with robots -- when they get close to human they enter the uncanny valley and are judged differently from machine-like robots), but the term may be unfamilar on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I think the Pzschreck hits were pretty easy to see, but ND is correct that Panzerfaust hits aren't. Remember when you're playing the game you can pause and zoom in right at the soldier's elbow. See if he's shouldering a faust, levelling a a rifle with a grenade attachment or hurling a potato masher. Of course if you're playing Realtme fighting from 150m back when it happens you might or might not even hear a detonation in all the hubub and confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrspawn Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just made a quick battle recording, encoding it now, going to have it uploaded by tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Oh wow, I wasn't aware that scale was possible. That would certainly explain a lot! This is something I think a lot of people are generally unaware of with graphics. The less units/actors/characters/moving pieces/terrain there are on-screen, the prettier the graphics in general can be. At one extreme, you've got games like Combat Mission where there can be in excess of a thousand individual people/vehicles on-screen at the extreme large end of scenarios, and then at the other extreme you've got Call of Duty and Crysis which at most have a dozen on screen, and usually much less than that. I'd imagine CoH is closer to the CoD end scale than the CM end. Now, if CM could afford an art department as large as THQs... who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just made a quick battle recording, encoding it now, going to have it uploaded by tonight. Which scen did you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Remember when you're playing the game you can pause and zoom in right at the soldier's elbow. See if he's shouldering a faust, levelling a a rifle with a grenade attachment or hurling a potato masher. Of course if you're playing Realtme fighting from 150m back when it happens you might or might not even hear a detonation in all the hubub and confusion. Well the shot in particular does look like it could have been a rifle grenade, but it's impossible to tell for sure. Could have been a PF as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just made a quick battle recording, encoding it now, going to have it uploaded by tonight. You sir, deserve a statue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrspawn Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Which scen did you do? One of the forest mediums, its the one where there is a hill on the north side, a river running through the middle and a town on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 This is something I think a lot of people are generally unaware of with graphics. The less units/actors/characters/moving pieces/terrain there are on-screen, the prettier the graphics in general can be. At one extreme, you've got games like Combat Mission where there can be in excess of a thousand individual people/vehicles on-screen at the extreme large end of scenarios, and then at the other extreme you've got Call of Duty and Crysis which at most have a dozen on screen, and usually much less than that. I'd imagine CoH is closer to the CoD end scale than the CM end. Now, if CM could afford an art department as large as THQs... who knows. You can get a good idea of how accurate a simulation a game is going to be just by looking at the ratio of programmers to artists and the development time allowed. Compare the major titles to CM. That should be an eye opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 During the second game tyrspawn mentions (at 1:00:00) that the two squads in the center are "about to retreat and are wavering". How do you know? It's hard to tell from jthe video, but I didn't see any telltale signs in the UI and couldn't see any obvious casualties. (I've only played the CMSF demo once, so I'm a noob to this UI). I don't know for sure, but I got the feeling he did the narration after having played the scenario so he knew what was going to happen. He alluded to future events several times. And, tyrespawn, maybe you are not the one to do this, but what I would like to see, and I assume others would as well, are little vignettes such as 30 second clips of a MG crew firing, an AT gun firing, a mortar team in action, a tank advancing, spotting an enemy vehicle, aiming and firing, etc. It would probably be easier to do this with a WEGO scenario or QB so you can go back and find the best position to place the camera. The camera should remain in one spot while we get to observe the action. If someone wants to give me a copy of the beta I would be glad to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Fantastic looking battles. I switched to 72 video to see it sooner and maybe catch the highlights in HD at weekend, hopefully giving the orders this time. Have to say the second battle grabbed me the most and had that "I want to play scenario first" look to it. Good luck with the release team, but it's looking like you left little of it to luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkWGriswold Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well the shot in particular does look like it could have been a rifle grenade, but it's impossible to tell for sure. Could have been a PF as well. If only it had been played in WeGo so tyrspawn could go back and get a good view of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrspawn Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 If only it had been played in WeGo so tyrspawn could go back and get a good view of it. Bite the hand that feeds you! If I didn't make these videos it's likely you wouldn't see jack squat until release day... just keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Watching the vid again it struck me how tyrspawn kept commenting without getting inane or annoying. No mean feat .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Bite the hand that feeds you! If I didn't make these videos it's likely you wouldn't see jack squat until release day... just keep that in mind. I'm sure everybody appreciates your time and effort tyrspawn. Remember there are a lot of frustrated armchair generals hanging around this forum. So don't take anything to heart mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonar Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ok, here is the definitive answer on the grenade vs tank situation. No.1 tank, panzerfaust, No.2 Panzerfaust and No.3 handgrenade. From 3:05 to5:45 you see the platoon being placed, pause when they are highlighted and you can see the inventory for each squad. The squad at the treeline, which kills No.2 has a panzerfaust. 26:20 to 26:40, panzerschreck has a go, listen to the sound of it's discharge and impact. 26:42 team behind building fire a rifle grenade then a panzerfaust in quick sucession [watch their inventory as they fire, and watch the grenade and faust dissapear as there used]. Once again, listen to the sounds of these different types of weapon, in particular the faust. 27:56 the sqaud in the treeline let fly with their panzerfaust,See it is no longer in their inventoryand kills No.2. See the smoke from it's discharge,hear impact sound. 37:60 to 38:40 we see a miss from the last faust but no one else has a go with handgrenades, till the squad in the treeline whom the tank is literally sitting on top of, throw one. By chance I paused at 38:40 and in the frame you see the stickgrenade, on it's way, in mid air where it explodes... above the rear engine cowling, listen to the difference between this explosion and the one that gets No.2. I am completely satisfied with these results and my initial response was instigated by the misleading video commentary. Now what was that someone said about chinstraps....cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkWGriswold Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Bite the hand that feeds you! If I didn't make these videos it's likely you wouldn't see jack squat until release day... just keep that in mind. Whoa, whoa, whoa! Don't take it personally. I really enjoy the video you've already posted (watched for a third time today and have sent it to many friends) and am looking forward to the next installment. It was just a bit of good natured ribbing since you mentioned earlier that you don't do WeGo. Things like the mystery tank demolition are the reasons I love WeGo so much. You get to go back and relive those "holy cow!" moments over and over again, sometimes needing half a dozen viewings before you even realize what the heck happened. In fact, just yesterday a coworker of mine was playing CMBB and had a T-34 taken out by a direct hit from a 50mm mortar. It took six replays before we figured out what happened. Nobody in our circle of CMBB players had ever seen such a thing in person, so it got replayed many, many times. If he had been playing a non-WeGo game we never would have been able to see it. So, that's why I made my (totally in jest) comment, and why many of us are such WeGo die-hards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I just made a quick battle recording, encoding it now, going to have it uploaded by tonight. Thank you Chris for putting these all together for us. Dont let all the nit-pickers bug ya. Its inevitable these days. Just know that for every one of them, there are 100 of us sitting here, loving every minute of it. I dont mean to say that the game is 100% perfect - no game will ever be. But the elements that need work are far, far outweighed by what is done very, very well. Thanks again. And game looks great BFC! Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Perhaps there are elements of this thread that could best be summed up by Donald Sutherland. "Hey!" Take it easy Big Joe. A Lot of these people have sensitive feelings!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Perhaps there are elements of this thread that could best be summed up by Donald Sutherland. "Hey!" Take it easy Big Joe. A Lot of these people have sensitive feelings!" Sutherland's greatest role in my opinion. woof woof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Things like the mystery tank demolition are the reasons I love WeGo so much. You get to go back and relive those "holy cow!" moments over and over again, sometimes needing half a dozen viewings before you even realize what the heck happened. In fact, just yesterday a coworker of mine was playing CMBB and had a T-34 taken out by a direct hit from a 50mm mortar. It took six replays before we figured out what happened. Nobody in our circle of CMBB players had ever seen such a thing in person, so it got replayed many, many times. If he had been playing a non-WeGo game we never would have been able to see it. So, that's why I made my (totally in jest) comment, and why many of us are such WeGo die-hards. oooh I had something like this happen when I was playing Closing the Gap. One of the US 60mm mortar teams got a direct LOS on one of the 234/1s by the woodline and started direct lay firing on it. After a few adjustment rounds it landed a round right into the open hatch! I had fun replaying that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Why don't you guys just knock it off with them negative waves. Why don't you say something righteous and beautiful for a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Why don't you guys just knock it off with them negative waves. Why don't you say something righteous and beautiful for a change? Hehe amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Tyrspawn, If I haven't said it before I will say it now, your time and effort in providing these vids are much appreciated. I've spent a good amount of time watching and re-watching what you have already posted and your narration is enjoyable and enlightening. We are all just so eager to get our hands on this game that its kind of like a feeding frenzy and our rudeness comes out when we can't get what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Loved the video, and greatly appreciate the effort sir. As someone who left Battlefront-land after Afrika Korps and did not return until last week I see some interesting opportunities. Us old skool grognards are going to have a field day with the Shock Force boys who expect the "act of angry pagan god" weapons systems. As long as it is WEGO that is .... I was astounded that the author was able to keep the situational awareness that he did in a company level realtime environment. Bravo sir. I kept cringing at all the missed opportunities I saw as the battles progressed, but there was no way I would have seen even half of them if I had attempted a realtime battle. The Amis would have rolled over me while I was still deciding on where to send my schrek teams, or as I watched a neat little firefight in some random corner of the map. If you could do a few turns of WEGO for a video, it may help with showing folks just what is involved with the screens as you go through them. No rush you understand. I wanted so bad to watch a building drop as I heard them come down. I caught a glimpse of one falling as the view scanned over the town. Thanks again. My pre-order is done, so you are what we have until release date sir. ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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