bodkin Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Steve, the 2nd module will be M-G? I thought that was 3rd or 4th, with the Commonwealth module 2nd. Or did I miss a change from/misunderstand earlier plans? Pay attention! 'Commonwealth' is on first, 'Market Garden' is on second and 'I don't know' is on third. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Heh... Bodkin has it right. The Commonwealth Module is the "second release", if one counts the initial main game. However, it is most definitely going to be the 1st Module. In other words, the next CM:BN content you'll have available will be the Commonwealth Module. After that is Market Garden, and that's the 2nd Module. The 3rd Module is what we're calling a Battle Pack. It will contain lots of fun stuff but will not be focused on a specific battle or portion of the theater. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Having the forces be physically the same, and maps mirrored so terrain is identical for each end of the map, completely eliminates all the whining potential. Now it's really a contest of who can play a better game (like Chess). But chess doesn't have die rolls. A lot of results in CMSF or CMx1 for that matter still come down to a few crucial hits or misses. In the armour dominance phase one or more hits by an ATGM launcher can make all the difference. I have played from the same saved defensive Syrian setup a number of runs (the AI plan has already been chosen, so it is the same each time), and have experienced very different outcomes, where sometimes a crucial AT team scores a lot of hits, and sometimes misses the first and is immediately destroyed by counter fire. So tournament players can still whine about their unfavourable die rolls, and sometimes be even right to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 But chess doesn't have die rolls. If it did (eg. a 50% chance for capturing an enemy piece being successful, else you skip the turn), better players would still win 99% of time due to knowing how to control the risks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphonne Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Heh... Bodkin has it right. The Commonwealth Module is the "second release", if one counts the initial main game. However, it is most definitely going to be the 1st Module. In other words, the next CM:BN content you'll have available will be the Commonwealth Module. After that is Market Garden, and that's the 2nd Module. The 3rd Module is what we're calling a Battle Pack. It will contain lots of fun stuff but will not be focused on a specific battle or portion of the theater. Steve Are you guys also going to introduce more animations and features over the course of the modules, or is that limited to the individual title releases? i.e. CMBN -> CM:Bulge -> etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Are you guys also going to introduce more animations and features over the course of the modules, or is that limited to the individual title releases? It shouldn't be limited, considering that each CMSF module also came with new animations (eg. gunner pose for EuroSpike ATGM or the new wall-hopping animation). The same with features, although there is a limit to how much new stuff can be introduced within a title: for example, some bigger changes might result in changes to map or TO&E formats, which would break older scenarios. Obviously this isn't desirable if it's not a completely new title. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphonne Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 It shouldn't be limited, considering that each CMSF module also came with new animations (eg. gunner pose for EuroSpike ATGM or the new wall-hopping animation). The same with features, although there is a limit to how much new stuff can be introduced within a title: for example, some bigger changes might result in changes to map or TO&E formats, which would break older scenarios. Obviously this isn't desirable if it's not a completely new title. Ah yes, you are right I completely forgot the wall-hopping animations! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 If it did (eg. a 50% chance for capturing an enemy piece being successful, else you skip the turn), better players would still win 99% of time due to knowing how to control the risks. Well, with my post I wanted to state that in many scenarios in CM the percentage would be much lower than 99%. In a lot of single fights the results would average out to the expected outcome, but in the critical AT phase there is a lot of decisive chance. I think that will be similar in CM:BN with defending AT-guns. Will they kill? Will they survive the counter-fire? You can change the odds by skilful placement, but the actual roll will often decide the outcome of the battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 "And all this after so much fighting to make CM2 more "realistic." Not sure what the point was if this is what players look forward to... <sigh>" Guys, it doesn't bother me at all. I just find it ironic after all the emphasis on "realistic" etc. Personally, I would LOVE to see CMSF:Zombies with MOUT battles vs brain eating dead. On another note, after 6 months of intense discussion on CM:BN I feel I have been playing the game for months! Getting burned out. When will CMSF2 come out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Steve, bodkin...next time I'll try not to count after a few Captain & Cokes! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noltyboy Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Personally, I would LOVE to see CMSF:Zombies with MOUT battles vs brain eating dead. Now theres a module! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Guys, it doesn't bother me at all. I just find it ironic after all the emphasis on "realistic" etc. Note that I didn't mention this in my post about the beauty of how Modules work Seriously, I think it was your use of the "<sigh>" that triggered the response. It implies a sort of... I dunno... lower expectations about everything else because you don't think this one tiny aspect matches. Where as in fact it's a freebie extra that cost us next to nothing to add (just some recolored icons) that was loudly called for back in CMx1 AND (most importantly) doesn't change the game's realism or focus in any way at all. Remember, while it isn't realistic to have Germans and Americans fighting British and Germans, the actual effects within the battle are still realistic. A Panther vs. a PzIV is not governed by special rules... it's what it would be in real life, just as it was on the Eastern Front where both sides used significant amounts of enemy equipment against the other side. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 True that "dice roles" will always keep CM distinct from games like Chess, but having perfectly even sides and even playing field means that the odds are now perfectly even as well. Lady Luck might decide to favor one side in a particular matchup, but that matchup itself would be because of player decisions and not scenario designer choices. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 In what module do we get English Longbowmen and French Heavy Cavalry.I can't wait to recreate the Battle of Agincourt. Now that would be one heck of a game. Steve, think of all the fun TO&E research you'd get to do. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 In what module do we get English Longbowmen and French Heavy Cavalry.I can't wait to recreate the Battle of Agincourt. Already been done and I doubt seriously if BF could do a better job of it (wego and PBEM might be an interesting approach). With that said, I doubt seriously that the other guys could do WWII and modern warfare any better than BF does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Already been done Really? By whom? Seriously, if there's a medieval warfare sim out there that's better than MTW2 I've got to have it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Really? By whom? Seriously, if there's a medieval warfare sim out there that's better than MTW2 I've got to have it! Simple minds think alike 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Really? By whom? Seriously, if there's a medieval warfare sim out there that's better than MTW2 I've got to have it! Me too, the TW series became way too "cinematic" and the realism suffered severely. Anyhow, can't wait for the commonwealth module 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 FJ will be in the 1st Module along with the Commonwealth forces. The philosophy behind how we choose which forces to include is quite simple, actually. The first question we ask ourselves is "what do we absolutely need for this particular release". Well, for the base game, the content that EVERYBODY will have access to should be the content that is common to pretty much all aspects of the scope of the entire Family (i.e. Normandy in this case). Heer for the Germans, US Army for the Allies. Having Ost and Stomach Battalions, backed up by the 21st Panzer Division, for the base game would leave a LOT to be desired, don't you think? The next question we ask ourselves is "how do the total forces divide up?". Waffen SS is a clearly different set of units from Heer and Luftwaffe, each of the latter also being different from each other. Commonwealth is also distinctly different from US Army. Within each of these logical groupings we see how big each is and what its development needs are. To do that we have to look at internal organization and what sort of overlap they have (or don't have) with other forces. Lastly, we figure out what amount of content is reasonable for a particular release. It has to be enough that people feel they're getting their money's worth, yet not so much that we feel we're giving stuff away. That's really all there is to it. Now, from a philosophical standpoint we do not believe the TO&E should be used as a trick to get you guys to buy stuff. Therefore, we tend to do a particular force to the point of "completion" rather than dribble it out over many releases. For example, how happy would you guys be if we put Waffen SS Grenadiers in the base game, SS PzGrens in the 1st Module, SS PzPioneer in the 2nd, and SS PzAufklärung for 3rd? This would mean you are interested in Waffen SS you would need to purchase everything, regardless of your interest in the other stuff. So all Waffen SS stuff will go into the 1st Module, which means we have increased our workload for a particular release more than if we spread it out over several releases. There are some exceptions to the above, but they are for purely practical reasons. For example, FJ will be in the 1st Module but LW Field Divisions will not be. With the Commonwealth and Waffen SS stuff also slated for 1st Module, it's just too much work to also do the LW Field Divisions. Another exception is something like with CM:SF where later on we decided to add the T-90 to the Syrian forces (a very big reality stretch), so it wasn't part of the basic game. Clear as mud now? Steve That sounds pretty good to me. Not having indulged in CMSF modules, I was under the impression that these were just non-interconnected 'slices'. The fact that they can be melded together is welcome news. The Normandy 'pot' can thus be kept boiling for a good while, although how well the resultant 'stew' keeps will be dependant on the timescale of modules appearing, I would think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The Normandy 'pot' can thus be kept boiling for a good while, although how well the resultant 'stew' keeps will be dependant on the timescale of modules appearing, I would think. My memory is not what it once was but I am sure that years ago when Steve announced the strategy for CMx2 he said that they intended to release modules every six months or so. That didn't happen with CMSF. Maybe it will with CMBN, but I doubt it. One a year would be my bet, which puts the first East Front game so far off into the future as not to be worth thinking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'd be willing to bet that modules for CM:BN are released slightly more frequently than those for CMSF simply because the engine is so much more mature. Of course "more frequently" could still be a year or so. My googling skills give the following: CMSF to Marines Module: 27 July 2007-12 September 2008. 1 year, 1 month, 16 days (Including multiple patches after CMSF release) Marines to Brits: 12 September 2008-29 July 2009. 10 months, 17 days (Including patches for Marines) Brits to NATO: 29 July 2009-21 October 2010. 1 year, 2 months, 22 days Brits to NATO time period includes CM:Afghanistan: Released Monday, 13 September 2010 So it looks like the 10 months or so is about a best case scenario, though it seems like if there is a lot of crossover for later modules and it is just TO&E and scenarios rather than art and new vehicles things could go quicker. eg Bulge game will have very similar equipment to CM:BN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hoolman, I wouldn't argue with your analysis. CMSF was realeased far too early and so much time had to be spent sorting out major flaws, so we may see a quicker rate of module releases now that the basic engine is solid. I certainly hope so otherwise I shall be dead or gaga before I can get back to the East Front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 E.g. Bulge game will have very similar equipment to CM:BN. Yes, I am very curious what will change. More polygons on the wheels? Or just winter textures. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphonne Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Will we also see the typical FJ and W-SS uniforms in the first module then? I guess the FJ is a lot of work with all the new uniforms and such? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Are there plans for "exotic" modules and adding rare stuff like remote controlled Goliath etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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