Ron Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 KR, As PaperTiger says, it's not like CM: Normandy is absolutely perfect already. There's a LOT of rough edges that have to be smoothed out, some features that still have to be added, and some other things done that probably none of us are aware of yet. Which is why we have no ship date There is one distinctly "rosy" part right now... the testers all agree that we have nailed the feel of WW2 already. Yup, despite all kinds of placeholder artwork, models, animations, and even some features... the testers are enthusiastically unanimous that CM: Normandy will not feel even remotely like CM:SF with "a new skin". Since that is the single most important aspect to get right, we're confident that it's just a matter of time to get the details fixed up before we will have the best CM game ever to give you guys. Steve That's great news, but you must know, no matter the qualifier, that you are hanging yourself saying stuff like "we will have the best CM game ever to give you guys." Either way I'm all for starting up the van again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Ron, That's great news, but you must know, no matter the qualifier, that you are hanging yourself saying stuff like "we will have the best CM game ever to give you guys." I learned a long time ago that people will have outrageously high expectations no matter what we say, so it doesn't really matter what I say I am sure that CM: Normandy will be the best game we've ever released from our perspective. Meaning that the technology, feature set, depth of play, etc. will be far superior to any of the CMx1 games and better than CM:SF. The next CMx2 game we release will be better than CM: Normandy, and the one after that will be better still. That's the whole point of the new CMx2 codebase... ever forward! Some people, however, sill value the setting higher than the overall offerings of a particular game release. Those who love the modern setting will, for sure, like the new features in CM: Normandy BUT won't be fully happy until they get CM:SF 2. Likewise, the East Front grogs might enjoy CM: Normandy BUT won't be fully happy until there is something set in the East to play with. Oh, and of course I did not say that CM: Normandy will have everything in it that everybody pictures being in there. There will be disappointments for sure. Even reasonable ones We simply can't deliver a title that has everything in it exactly the way people want it. Impossible. But I think the number of people that will be disappointed with CM: Normandy, overall, will be limited to a few crazies who (as usual) can be safely ignored. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InFireBaptize Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 But I think the number of people that will be disappointed with CM: Normandy, overall, will be limited to a few crazies who (as usual) can be safely ignored. Steve Would you really want to hear comments from people who like the game all the time? then your game will be always 100% right in your eye! After experimenting with CMSF CMx2 i hope CM:Normandy has picked up where CMSF CMx2 lacks! By the sound of it, it looks promising. People who will be disappointed with the game are not necessary crazies? they could have valid points and constructive criticism to add. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I'll be happy as long as it comes with quality 3-D glasses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I'll be happy as long as it comes with quality 3-D glasses. Well unfortunately in the spirit of realism, we have been limited to testing the sort of 3D glasses available in the ETO. Accordingly if you wish to play the US, you'll get several but will need to give yourself a mild concussion to get them to work (BTS / BFC legal department trying to draft the instructions for this right now. Attempting to convey the intent of "smash you head against the wall to get them to work" while avoiding litigation over such a "self harm" statement). When playing the Germans you will receive only the one pair and they will have outstanding optics. This only helps once you are playing "post bocage" scenarios though. Neither, I'm afraid, will be "rose coloured". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 ...Neither, I'm afraid, will be "rose coloured". So I shouldn't be making a bug report, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 So I shouldn't be making a bug report, right? Mark, You know, as well as I, that being a Beta Tester you were given the secret "inside scoop" (after signing the NDA of course) that you can achieve the near nirvana state of "rose coloured" glasses by playing the sim in a room lit by a red light. You did sign the waiver about not taking them to court should you choose to change the light globe without turning the light off first though, didn't you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Mark, You know, as well as I, that being a Beta Tester you were given the secret "inside scoop" (after signing the NDA of course) that you can achieve the near nirvana state of "rose coloured" glasses by playing the sim in a room lit by a red light. You did sign the waiver about not taking them to court should you choose to change the light globe without turning the light off first though, didn't you? I signed something? Really? Oh my, look at the time! If I'm late for practice they'll drop me from the team! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normannobrot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 sounds as if this is gona be battlefronts year of game's with all the panned release's they have, better start putting me wonga aside. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 the panned release's. ... Hopefully that's a typo for "planned", not a pre emptive critique of the product(s)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hopefully that's a typo for "planned", not a pre emptive critique of the product(s)? Hah! I had the same thought. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Would you really want to hear comments from people who like the game all the time? then your game will be always 100% right in your eye! Er... nobody said anything like that, and these Forums are filled with critical comments. Our games never have been, and never will be, perfect. What I was talking about are the (thankfully RARE) type of player who can say "your game is a total disappointment. I am SO angry with you because you made such a piece of CRAP!! And I should know because I've played your game for 1000 hours so far and it hasn't gotten any better!" People who will be disappointed with the game are not necessary crazies? they could have valid points and constructive criticism to add. Of course. The majority of people who express criticism of our games aren't "crazy". Only the crazy ones are crazy And believe me... there are some real nutters out there. To restate my point... Anybody who likes WW2 NW Europe tactical combat will most likely not be disappointed by CM: Normandy. Will people be 110% happy with the game? Absolutely not. One thing can be counted on with gamers in general, but wargamers especially, is a laundry list of things that could be done better, added, or subtracted. However, I do not think anybody interested in this time period will have rational, reasonable grounds for being "disappointed" with CM: Normandy. If someone is "disappointed" then I'm going to guess that they have irrational, unreasonable expectations that could never be satisfied. Hence me calling such people "nutters". Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I wonder how many posters haunt the chat board for that computer drawing game "Crayon Physic" posting "I hate your game! I'm crushed and disappointed! And I'm confident I'll be crushed and disappointed by all your future releases too!" BTW, Crayon Physics really is kind'a cool http://www.crayonphysics.com/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Kanonier BTW, I hope you're not associating me with critical posts on the website Nah, it was prompted by gibsonM's remarks about, 'if we find something wrong with it, it'll knock back the release date' or whatever. InFire Baptize Would you really want to hear comments from people who like the game all the time? Hmm... I don't understand your logic there mate. Of course we like it. If we didn't, why on earth would we be so stupid as to spend our precious time playing it? You assume that because we beta test that we think there's nothing wrong with the game or that it couldn't be improved? Pure nonsense. We provide very good feedback thankyou. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normannobrot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hopefully that's a typo for "planned", not a pre emptive critique of the product(s)? nah nah, definate typo there on my account. my bad. my bad, only notice when i read this morning for the second time, must of been real tired last night and not notice. ahaha 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normannobrot Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Or maybe it was a pre-emtpive strike? muahahahaha:eek: lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 "If someone is "disappointed" then I'm going to guess that they have irrational, unreasonable expectations that could never be satisfied" Steve, I hope you are right in that because I for one was very, very disappointed with CM:SF when it was released (two years down the line and I love it, but that is a different issue). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Don't forget CM:Normandy is being built on top of the CMSF 1.21 code, so it will have all the features presently in CMSF 1.21, plus the new features being added now and the specific Normandy 44 content, so anyone who likes CMSF 1.21 and likes WW2 will like CM:Normandy. Even though it is still only Alpha, the new game benefits from all the work that has gone into CMx2 so far, so the game is already very stable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 "If someone is "disappointed" then I'm going to guess that they have irrational, unreasonable expectations that could never be satisfied" Steve, I hope you are right in that because I for one was very, very disappointed with CM:SF when it was released (two years down the line and I love it, but that is a different issue). That's his point. As Sgt Joch said, the existing code that CM:N is based on is now very, very stable, unlike the release state of CMSF. When you add in all of the new features and goodies, there should be very little reason to be disappointed with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Yes 2 years of coding should help a lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Has any thought been given to how modules will work between CM:N and CM:Bulge? Of course there two separate games with separate modules, but will we have to buy the SS Module (obviously just an example) once for each game even if there is only minor TO&E changes that do not add any new equipment? Or will these units be included in CM:Bulge base game? Furthermore is their any inherent problem with just bringing formation into the next game? For example bringing all the formations in CM:N into CM:Bulge even if there are no maps etc brought along since the code supporting these units is already in? And if this is possible would it then be possible to create an ETO pack compatible to CM:Bulge to allow scenario designers full access to all formation in one game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 That's his point. As Sgt Joch said, the existing code that CM:N is based on is now very, very stable, unlike the release state of CMSF. When you add in all of the new features and goodies, there should be very little reason to be disappointed with it. TBH, I'm less worried about the combat engine as I am about the game built around it. Stuff like Campaigns and QBs could take this game so much further. Even such a thing as kill-stats tracking would help a lot. There just is something satisfying about inspecting the units to look at who killed what. I hope the latter hasn't fallen by the wayside amid slipping ETAs. I'm a bit worried about the QBs too, most especially the purchasing. With a points system already excluded, I fear a system too clever for it's own good. Just let the user fool around with his force. Anyway, point being, the engine could be the greatest thing ever, the game might still be disappointing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 CM: Normandy will not have everything that everybody hopes to see. It also won't cure cancer or bring about world peace, so in our opinion at some point a person's expectations can cross a line to becoming unreasonable. CM:SF's initial launch was a disappointment to some because it fell below reasonable expectations in some ways. In other ways the expectations were just out of line with reality, such as the anger that we did not make a WW2 based game. We've always been very amenable to criticism that is within reason, hostile to criticism that is completely out in left field. That has always been the case and always will be the case. With CM: Normandy we KNOW, for sure, that the core game engine is technically and philosophically where it needs to be. If someone doesn't like the game engine then they can't possibly be disappointed with CM: Normandy because they know, well ahead of time, what that core engine is going to look and play like. Just like a reasonable person can't be disappointed with Quake because it isn't turn based. Being disappointed about something that was never offered or never promised is unreasonable and simply nuts. What we are striving VERY hard to do is to ensure that people who are reasonably OK with the CMx2 game engine will be happy with its initial portrayal of WW2. This includes not only the setting and the gameplay, but also some promised features like "cherry picking" for QBs. We're very pleased with the setting and general gameplay's existing state in terms of satisfying those goals, so polishing them will only make them better. As for those features, like QBs, we're very sure we have that fixed up just fine. Therefore, we do not expect people to be disappointed with CM: Normandy as a game. Unhappy about this or that feature being different than expected/desired? Sure, but that's normal for any game and therefore we don't expect 100% satisfaction with what we give you. The ones who throw the baby out with the bathwater, however, will likely be the professional complainers and not ordinary, well adjusted players. We don't really give a flying fig about trying to make the professional complainers happy because it can not be done, therefore we are already "pre-emptively" ignoring them Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Elmar, Anyway, point being, the engine could be the greatest thing ever, the game might still be disappointing. True, which is why we haven't released the game yet Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 CM: Normandy will not have everything that everybody hopes to see. It also won't cure cancer or bring about world peace Steve :eek: This game is so broken!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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