Moaners

[Wodin]

I was quite sceptical for a long time with regards to CMSF. I loved the previous games and always wished the infantry was 1:1. However the bad reports after the initial release plus I wasn't keen on the setting nor time of the conflict.

However I watched the winning video of the competition recently and was impressed with what I saw. So I bought the game.

I'm extremely pleased with the gaming experience so much so I bought the marines module.

Yes I can see things aren't perfect but its only a game which overall is great fun to play. The lack of formation issue is I admit a little annoying due to the bunching up but hey I just see it as a little combat chaos.

My other gripe is the one sided battle, but with clever scenario design this can be retified.

Also from the sounds of it the British module may even things up a little.

Anyway CMSF has far exceeded my expectations and I feel battlefront deserve a good round of applause for making a game that far exceeds any other RTS venture out there (I do play WEGO more but its just RTS with a pause function isn't it?). The only other squad based game that I enjoy is turn based and is way more abstracted than CMSF.

I'm going to break the mould and not be a "wargame moaner" and say well done Battlefront and keep up the work can't wait for CM Normandy.

[cabal23]

Curious what other turn based game you play? I am a huge TB player and love anything new I can get my hand on while my 2 year old piddles around my feet.

[theFightingSeabee]

Amen Wodin. We all want this and that to be perfect, but the bottom line is there is no other pc game that depicts modern warfare more realistically. None.

With the release of British Forces and 1.20, Battlefront does deserve a round of applause. Charles is a genious, and that's all there is to it. When the moaners put their nose to the grindstone and come out with something better than the combat mission series, I'll cheer them on. Until then, enjoy the fruits of Battlefronts labor and have fun!

[Wodin]

Squad Battles by HPS. I'm sure you've heard of them. Great selection of games and time periods. The series is slowly improving all the time. Best played PBEM, but still fun against the AI.

[Commercial links removed by Battlefront.com]

[Hawk]

Psst. Guys, as good as other games may be, Battlefront still don't like comercial link to them on their forum.

[handihoc]

I'm backing up Fighting Seabee here. I've been with Shock Force from the start and, yes, we all know, it was pretty flawed at the beginning and was probably released a bit sooner than was wise. But it's been steadily and consistently developed since then, with huge improvements/enhancements/fixes etc. There is no other game like it, and it just gets better and better. And the Brits and v1.20 add a heck of a lot more.

Not only that, but the first WW2 game using the CMx2 engine is not far off, either. This is a very good place for serious wargamers.

[Patrocles]

Right on! a fair game after a few patches.

I pray CMN will not have so many problems when it is released!

[[hirr]Leto]

I agree as well. But it does not absolve those who feel the game is fantastic from lowering the boom on people who also honestly want the game to be better and bring to the attention of all that some things are not quite right in the game.

Kudos to Battlefront, definately. I also say we give a big hand of applause to all those out there that work tirelessly on the game (such as the beta-testers) and those who continually post bugs, post suggestions for improvement and discuss and debate aspects of the game that could possibly make it better. Let's hope that spirit here on the forums never is quashed, for it makes for a dynamic community, and that's a GOOD thing.

Cheers!

Leto

[GSX]

Threads like these are always interesting as they draw you in by the tag...... 'Moaners' I thought! Must be good. But its a congratulation thread, so why not just say, 'thanks BFC'.

Nah lets take a sly swing at anyone who has a different opinion from others on a game instead.

I agree with most of what Leto says and dont think its just a case of people moaning for moanings sake. Some of the so called 'Fanbois' here have never seen anything wrong with the game ever and if it were up to them we would all be playing in a blissfull world of Ver 1.01 where nothing was wrong.

I actually think somewhere in between 'Moaner' and 'Fanboi' is a good place to be.

[handihoc]

I pray CMN will not have so many problems when it is released!

[Battlefront.com]

Commercial links removed from Wodin's post. Wodin, please refrain from commercial links in the future. It's a hard and fast rule, be it another game or porn

My perspective on threads like this is simple. We value constructive input, both positive and critical. If someone wants to say we have room for improvement, that's fine as long as it is intended to help with improvement. If someone wants to say that the game is basically perfect now, and that they have no real complaints with it, that's also fine. Both are helpful to us and nobody should get feathers ruffled.

It should be pointed out that people who are critical of our games, but not in a positive way, tend to berate and ridicule people who actually like them. Conversely, the people who really like the games tend to get upset with people who seem to find nothing good to say about the game despite hundreds of hours playing (which is ironic in and of itself ). It has been my experience that the hyper critical types always think it's a one sided affair with only "fanboi" comments allowed and critics getting beat down. That's never been the case on this Forum in the 11 or so years it's been up.

The ones who are most "violent" towards other members tend to be the ones that are critical with no intention of being productive. Which makes sense since the underlying personality type is compatible with such behavior. Someone who inherently has something good to say when he posts is highly unlikely to put the slam down on someone because it's not compatible with that personality type. Or put another way, negative minded people tend to be socially maladjusted (at least virtually speaking), while positive minded people tend to get along well with others.

I've said this a million times over the years... the day this Forum becomes nothing but a big back patting experience is the day we don't need to read anything written here. The day this Forum becomes nothing but an angry bunch of senseless complainers is the day we shut it down. Since either extreme is a bad idea we strive hard to keep things right in the middle, though definitely on the civil side.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

GSX,

Some of the so called 'Fanbois' here have never seen anything wrong with the game ever and if it were up to them we would all be playing in a blissfull world of Ver 1.01 where nothing was wrong.

It is true that some people have enjoyed the game since it was released, but I doubt few of them thought there was nothing "wrong". Early on their was a real circling of wagons where one group said there was nothing "right" about the game and, further, that it never would have anything "right' about it no matter how many times we patched. The opposite extreme basically said that there was a lot "right" about the game and that whatever was really "wrong" with it would be fixed over time. History has shown which side was more correct than the other

Obviously some people still think CM:SF, and by extension CMx2, stinks. Even when we go to Normandy, which in and of itself was a major source of criticism (i.e. "if it isn't WW2, it might as well not exist"), there will be people who still think it stinks. Which I've never, ever had a problem with. There are still Steel Panthers and Close Combat players that, even after 10 years, think Combat Missions of all flavors suck. We're not slashing our wrists out of shame and depression that we can't please everybody all the time, so the sooner people who don't like CMx2's direction figure out it's not changing, the sooner they can move onto something else and leave those who do like CMx2's direction alone. People who like the games we make have a right to enjoy them just as much as the people who don't have a right not to purchase them.

Steve

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I actually think somewhere in between 'Moaner' and 'Fanboi' is a good place to be.

Agreed. Constructive criticism is required to move the game forward.

[bodkin]

I remember when CMSF first came out some people were complaining that the clunky CM1 camera movement buttons had gone and they were forced to move the camera with the mouse.

[ChrisND]

I remember when CMSF first came out some people were complaining that the clunky CM1 camera movement buttons had gone and they were forced to move the camera with the mouse.

LOL! I remember that. A while back I was testing out that Vista patch for CMBB/AK and I was amazed at how bad the camera control was compared to CMSF.

[cabal23]

Squad Battles by HPS. I'm sure you've heard of them. Great selection of games and time periods. The series is slowly improving all the time. Best played PBEM, but still fun against the AI.

[Commercial links removed by Battlefront.com]

Yep I own Vietnam, but that has really become unwelcome to me now that I have played CMSF. Basically CMSF ruined gaming for me because now I hold everything up to it, and honestly for realism and a great scenario designing software, nothing can touch it. I remember picking up a modern RTS sometime back, Joint Task Force and it was terrible. Like any RTS it embodied an RTS feel. This games takes what HPS does with their games and gives it a face, which puts them on much higher ground.

I also think if they can nail Normandy, they will have their first real commercial success. WWII games get gobbled up by the general gaming audience, especially older players. Every year 5-10 WWI themed games come out across the spectrum of systems. Places like Gamespot and some other huge gaming forums pay careful attention to those games because they know there is a fairly large audience out there for those games. When CMSF came out(Eeek! 4.5 out of 10) I think they appropriately reviewed the game. Look at the Close Combat reviews. All high scores and well written and thoughtful of the audience they were writing for. Normandy has the ability to catapult CMSF into the bgs time so to say, and if that happens we all are rewarded by better games with more features. Let's hope everything stays golden for them, because as of now this the only game I play on my PC because I am hoplessy addicted to CMSF. I have officially logged more hours on this game than any other, except maybe Civilization in my college years. Let the good time roll!

[Peter Panzer]

Damn it people, I just spent the last twenty minutes looking for the corresponding 'Screamers' thread only to come in here and see folks carping about people carping about a video game.

Speaking of which, v1.2 by the weekend, right? Good then.

Just to make this post vaguely relevant, here is an image of some UK Infantry trying not to get blown up...

..and here is some UK Infantry that can blow me up...

[MikeyD]

Some of the so called 'Fanbois' here have never seen anything wrong with the game ever

Hunt down the laundry list of fixes and additions to the game stretching from patch v1.01 through 1.2. A full printed list would literally be as long as your arm. The bulk of those fixes/corrections were due to the dilligence of "fanbois who have never seen anything wrong".

The outer board does not know who lobbied for what, who complained the most, who pestered and wheedled, who fought the good fight, who made the cleverest suggestions or the most acute observations, who scoured the globe for reference material, who even bullied his fellows into stepping-up their game! There's 40-odd people credited at the back of the British module. Some have done heroic work for nine months straight - a couple even got paid a little for it. And I cannot recall one instance where grousing about how inferior the product is to some nostalgic memories of their beloved [add game title here] advanced the game an inch.

[Thomm]

I always thought that Fanbois and Beta Testers are separate categories??

Best regards,

Thomm

[Moon]

I also think if they can nail Normandy, they will have their first real commercial success.

If you mean with "commercial success" the amount of revenue a game generates, then we've already had several substantial hits. CMSF in fact probably was the biggest commercial success, or at least not far behind CMBO.

If you mean with "commercial success" that you will find the game in every retail store and headlining news on all the gaming sites, then nope, that will not happen. Those times are over and it was us that have pulled the plug (before it was too late).

[Bulgaroktonos]

Every year 5-10 WWI themed games come out across the spectrum of systems.

I take it you meant WWII, but if not, I am very interested to find out where all these WWI games are coming from!

Also hoping for a CM:Brusilov Offensive

[Wodin]

Moaners was said with a wry smile.

The trouble with the net is that as 90% of communication is through body language\tone of voice things get a little skewed.

No offence was men't. I moan as good as the rest of them. I'm just saying CMSF had quite abit of bad press out there (especially just after release)which I listened too. I was greatly suprised at how good the game was.

Sorry if I seemed like a fanboy I'm not. Just very pleased to see the game come on so much and feel its a shame that it got a bad name in its infancy.

[cabal23]

I take it you meant WWII, but if not, I am very interested to find out where all these WWI games are coming from!

Also hoping for a CM:Brusilov Offensive

Yes WWII..WWI themed games would not be as intersting...

A bit of research will take you far.....courtesy of Gamespot.

WWII Themed games

2008-2009

Men of War

Call of Duty World at War

War Leaders

Order of War

Officers

Brothers in Arms:Hells Highway

Theater of War

Sudden Strike 3

WWII Battle Tanks: T-34 vs. Tiger

Air Conflicts: Aces of World War II

Military History: Commander: Europe at War

Hearts of Iron II: Collection

Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942

IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey

To be release 2009-2010

R.U.S.E (TBA)

World In Flames(TBA)

Modern Naval Battles: WWII at Sea (TBA)

Wartime Command 1939-1945 (TBA)

Command Operations: WWII (TBA)

All American: Normandy (TBA)

Shadows of War (TBA)

PT Boats: Knights of the Sea (TBA)

Karma: Operation Barbarossa (TBA)

World War II: General Commander (TBA)

Making History II: The War of the World (TBA)

Ironically no where on that list can I find even a hint of info about CM: Normandy. I obtained the info from Gamespot.

So I would have to say WWII themed games have quite an audience.

[cabal23]

If you mean with "commercial success" the amount of revenue a game generates, then we've already had several substantial hits. CMSF in fact probably was the biggest commercial success, or at least not far behind CMBO.

If you mean with "commercial success" that you will find the game in every retail store and headlining news on all the gaming sites, then nope, that will not happen. Those times are over and it was us that have pulled the plug (before it was too late).

What I meant is people will know about it. How they get it is irrelevant. The days of PC games in stores are numbered as we all know. Good press is good press. People actually read reviews before they buy products. Many people scour the internet looking for reviews and info on new games. Things like that increases sales and convert new people. If you create a great product then you reap the rewards. We are all aware that BF has done well with the past modules despite one of the most disappointing releases in my current memory. It only took them a little more than two years to get a great product, but it is finally available for all the new people who could join the BF family in its current version and Normandy. They can most likely count on the CMSF base as just the foundation of players who will buy Normandy. Then you have all the WWII buffs that come out of the wood work and want to know if the game is good and all the old players of CMx1. As I states WWII is huge and honestly I can't understand why it still has the allure that it did in years gone by. But it is and if it Normandy gets good reviews I think it can be a huge success beyond anything BF has accomplished. Some of the smallest, independent games have become huge successes. Have a little faith.

[[hirr]Leto]

If you mean with "commercial success" the amount of revenue a game generates, then we've already had several substantial hits. CMSF in fact probably was the biggest commercial success, or at least not far behind CMBO.

If you mean with "commercial success" that you will find the game in every retail store and headlining news on all the gaming sites, then nope, that will not happen. Those times are over and it was us that have pulled the plug (before it was too late).

I find it sad that BFC has to actually justify its sales on these boards. I think this is superfluous and lowering yourselves to a level where you sound like you are responding to the criticism hoisted at you.

Don't go all Palin on us and respond to the unfair liberal media at every little twist in the road. Offer us more tidbits on the upcoming CM Normandy, as much info on the CMSF series as you can, and perhaps smile a bit at the fact that you are still in business: the ultimate response to any critics who think the CM line of games suck.

Cheers!

Leto