McIvan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Did, er, Tigers actually operate against the US forces? This probably got covered ten pages ago and I'm about to get hammered for not using the search function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ah no matter...I had a read and I see it's because Dan wanted to because Tigers are cool. As reasons go, that's about as non-contentious as they come Come on, let's have some more tidbits....and don't let that Moon fellow near the keyboard again. This is serious stuff!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Did, er, Tigers actually operate against the US forces? McIvan, most probably not, though as far as I am aware its not completely impossible that they did within the first games time frame. For instance Panzer Lehr starting the Normandy campaign with 6 Tiger tanks (3 operational on the day) and came into contact with US troops in July. The chances of the Tigers having made it that far though are very slim slim though, and its not a tank Id expect to see in any in the included campaigns for instance. As mentioned previously, the Tiger was added before we had defined the time line for the first game. Would could have easily kept it back for the second module for marketing purposes, but decided to include it in the first game as a bit of a bonus Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 McIvan, most probably not, Dan Yes they did! I saw it in Saving Private Ryan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yes they did! I saw it in Saving Private Ryan! Actually that was a T-34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 With the special MikeyD pseudo Tiger mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm surprised nobody reminded us all of what was included in the original CMBO Beta Demo. You know, the one of two scenarios that got people all excited about buying CMBO. Hmmm... now what was it that was in Last Defense? Anybody want to refresh our collective memories? I'll give you a hint... it wasn't a Sherman Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Was it a Bob Semple? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie01 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Did, er, Tigers actually operate against the US forces? This probably got covered ten pages ago and I'm about to get hammered for not using the search function. Yes they did, first encounter I believe was in Tunisia during the battle of Kasserine. Not sure if Tigers were present in Italy, but believe there wre some units there. Not up on how soon the Americans ran into them in Europe, first notable action I've read about was Wittmann and his Tigers at Villars Bocage. Pieper had Tiger units during the Battle of the Bulge too. Here's an interesting read, and some good ideas for a later module for this new sim! http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feature.pages/super.pershing.1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks Eddie, I meant in Normandy, which I presumed to be the timeframe of the game. You do realise that Villiers Bocage did not involve US forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie01 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yep, I realize who Wittmann was attacking. I was just replying in general terms, as the question was pretty general in the first place. Wittmann's attack was something that stood out to all the rest at that point in time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm surprised nobody reminded us all of what was included in the original CMBO Beta Demo. You know, the one of two scenarios that got people all excited about buying CMBO. Hmmm... now what was it that was in Last Defense? Anybody want to refresh our collective memories? I'll give you a hint... it wasn't a Sherman Steve Tiger vs. Hellcat X 3 What I win??? P.S. Remember all the "why did my tiger get killed so easy" debates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 KR, Bob Semple A valiant guess, but alas... incorrect! But how nice of you to remind your Kiwi cousins about their brief, unsuccessful foray into the world of tank designs McIvan, Thanks Eddie, I meant in Normandy, which I presumed to be the timeframe of the game. The timeframe is correct, and it is also correct that besides a small window of possibility while fighting Panzer Lehr (sPzKp 316) around St. Lo, it is not likely that the US forces ran into Tigers of either variety until August during the Mortain offensive. Either way, American units did fight against Tigers, albeit in small numbers. The Tiger is being included for several reasons: 1. It is more correct to have it than to not have it. 2. If we include it we get flak from some that it's too rare to include. If we don't include it we get flak from a far larger number because they don't care about the relative rarity; they just want to play with Tigers. Given a choice between having a minority complain about including something that is questionable to put in *or* having the majority complaining about excluding something that is questionable to leave out... in this case we side with the majority Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Lanzfeld, Tiger vs. Hellcat X 3 Correct! See, we sold out to the masses on our very first go around What I win??? The undying admiration of all that read your post. What more could one ask for? P.S. Remember all the "why did my tiger get killed so easy" debates? Yes, as well as I remember the "you are biased in favor of the Allies" mud throwing fun, often times concurrent with the "you are biased in favor of the Germans" smack downs Ah... sweet memories! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yes, as well as I remember the "you are biased in favor of the Allies" mud throwing fun, often times concurrent with the "you are biased in favor of the Germans" smack downs Ah... sweet memories! The truth that Steve has carefully concealed all this time is that he is secretly biased in favor of the Yugoslavs. You've never seen a single Yugoslav soldier get killed in CM have you? There's the proof. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie01 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Lanzfeld, Yes, as well as I remember the "you are biased in favor of the Allies" mud throwing fun, often times concurrent with the "you are biased in favor of the Germans" smack downs Ah... sweet memories! Steve Why do I get a feeling those memories will come back once this new sim is released! Its like listening to the combat flightsim community going on with the never ending war over the Spit vs FW 190 arguement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Michael, The truth that Steve has carefully concealed all this time is that he is secretly biased in favor of the Yugoslavs. You've never seen a single Yugoslav soldier get killed in CM have you? There's the proof. Well, that's not necessarily off the mark. I was just telling a couple of Croats I ran into this weekend how much I loved visiting their country just before the war (which was technically Yugoslavia for a few more months). I even managed to pull my one Croat pickup line out of the deep recesses of my brain. He was impressed that I could remember more than "where is the bathroom" and "1, 2, 3, 4" nearly 18 years later. Maybe that's because the line worked for me once (and on a Slovene chick ta boot, which makes it more funny that it worked!). Anyway, where was I? Oh yes... eddie01, Why do I get a feeling those memories will come back once this new sim is released! The Force is strong in you, so trust your feelings We've already had a short debate about whether Dan put the correct sized tracks on the Tiger or not, and that was only after a few hours of the first screenshot being up. Yes, for sure we'll get back to the wonders of arguing about unimportant minutia soon enough. And people couldn't understand why we wanted a break from WW2 for a while! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yes they did, first encounter I believe was in Tunisia during the battle of Kasserine. Not sure if Tigers were present in Italy, but believe there wre some units there. Not up on how soon the Americans ran into them in Europe, first notable action I've read about was Wittmann and his Tigers at Villars Bocage. Pieper had Tiger units during the Battle of the Bulge too. Here's an interesting read, and some good ideas for a later module for this new sim! http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feature.pages/super.pershing.1.htm I can't believe I'm entering a WW2 debate but hey here goes ... Peiper (spelling) had King Tigers (or Tiger 2s if you prefer) during the Battle of the Bulge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 And, of course, you are correct I forget the number of Tiger 1s that were still operational in the West at that time, but IIRC the number was quite small. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm surprised nobody reminded us all of what was included in the original CMBO Beta Demo. And I'm surprised that you didn't read post #37 in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yes there were Tigers in Normandy, but at what cut off date does the game confine itself to the Normandy theatre? Certainly US forces engaged Tigers before the greater Normandy campaign was over. The fact is that people will make scenarios (and I will play them) for CM: Normandy outside the direct theatre of operations that the game represents, just like CMAK. That means US vs Tigers in scenarios that probably depict actions in Italy and in actions in western Europe that went right up to 1945, it makes sense for BFC to allow this flexibility in the game as it will mean more accessability to the game for people who don't care about the historical accuracy to the same level some of the hardcore fans do. There really is no argument about the promotion of Tigers for the Normandy game it's up to the scenario designers whether they want to use them in a purely historic way or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homo ferricus Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I will not touch this game with a stick if French whores are not included. With accurate cup sizes and dimensions based on statistics gathered June-August 1944 in the relative area of where the game takes place. Also, the barrel of the Tiger is too short, the arrangement of the wheels is historically incorrect, the tone of the texture is inaccurate, and it is not in proper formation with the other vehicle, nor is it supported by proper panzergrenadier infantry. And it is painfully obvious that this new game is going into the direction of mainstream eye-candy centered and dramatic RTS clickfest arcadism, and BFC has sold out to the very people who have no idea this website exists. Because they are horrible savages who care for nothing but putting food on their tables. In fact, I am convinced that if i ever see Steve in person, he will shoot me in the face without giving it a second thought. It's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 That's not true, Homo ferricus...I'm certain Steve will have second thoughts about shooting you in the face. Something like this: First thought: "Oh, it's that damn loudmouth Homo ferricus." *BANG* Second thought: "Oh, nice shot, Steve...niiiiice shot!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Homo ferricus, You forgot to predict that BFC will be out of business soon because you do not like a particular game design decision! Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The truth that Steve has carefully concealed all this time is that he is secretly biased in favor of the Yugoslavs. You've never seen a single Yugoslav soldier get killed in CM have you? There's the proof. Michael How nice would it be to have squads of Emry's modelled in the game? All tied to trees and beaten to death with frozen turnips for being too stupid to live.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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