Could this be the first pic of CMx2 WWII ? [Edit] Yes!

[eddie01]

Almost correct, but not quite. Two points:

- One thing often missed in MBA classes is the long-term aspect of doing business. "most value" and "effective communication" traditionally are related to immediate results. "Sales today" is what is often used to measure how effective and how valuable things are. But this isn't *quite* the way we work. Our philosophy is that the long-term results are what really counts, or at least counts as much as today's results. If you have played a few Battlefront games you will perhaps notice a common theme: "deep" gameplay. Our philosophy is that if the game is "good" then it will prevail. Instead of spending time and assets on maximizing today's profits, we prefer to put in the time to design a game that we think is "good". If we had an endless supply of resources we could perhaps do both, but as it is we think that making good games is better down the road than boasting about them. Our busines model - internet sales - allows us to do this as well. If we had to sell primarily through retail it wouldn't be possible - "day one sales" is the magic word there.

- if we were driven by the idea to "maximize profits" (which is what "most value" and "most effective communication" are about in the end), we wouldn't be doing PC wargames, but creating sports games for Wii. Luckily, for you, everyone at Battlefront is driven as much by the idea of making the games that they like to play themselves as by the idea that we need to make profit (we do, but not "at all cost" and "beyond any other considerations").

The fact that Battlefront is still here after 10 years while many competitors are not so far seems to confirm that our philosophy can't be all that wrong.

Martin

I bet you guys never realized how one picture of a Tiger tank could end up stirring this hornets nest,lol

[BFCElvis]

Leto;1122070']I don't find this sarcasm constructive, nor very helpful to BFC considering you are a beta tester. Do you not want an open discussion for potential customers to tell you what they want?

If not, then state it as such. Snide commentary like this leads people to believe this may be the case.

Their will be feedback good and bad. Their will be people telling you what they want, wishlists and concerns. It's your job to evaluate and use the data, not inject personal bias that is both insulting and unnecessary.

How you react to all this says a lot more about you (and unfortunately the company) than it does about the (majority) of the people posting here.

Sheesh.

Just to add, the point of the post is not lost on me, considering the history of these forums.

But... come on? Fighting fire with fire is an exercise in failure (in regards to respectful and constructive community building), unless it is to only serve your own personal whims.

Cheers!

Leto

Leto, I don't mean to speak for Other Means but knowing him a bit I don't think he is being sarcastic. I think that is his wish list and I think he does want it now. I'm pretty sure he is just being playful.

I could be wrong...I have been before.

[BFCElvis]

That was no sarcasm - I can testify that that is what Other Means is like as a tester. In fact, that is the standard format of his reports...

Beat me to it.

[panzermartin]

I also want pin-up girls in the menu. Anyone remember that mod from CMBO?

[saunders1953]

But this one would be my bottomline wish, Other Means:

"I want Borris and Tommy and Joe and Fritz." Oh, and Tojo.

Maybe it will be in separate Eastern Front/ETO/PTO/MTO/CBI modules, but I do hope over time that all main theaters will be covered.

(Actually, it would seem that an Ost Front/ETO/PTO would cover the waterfront. As someone else has pointed out, with a decent scenario editing program, the CBI and MTO could be simulated easy enough.)

[Sergei]

I bet you guys never realized how one picture of a Tiger tank could end up stirring this hornets nest,lol

Nah, all of this was totally expected... Charles even wrote a poem in anticipation of this occasion:

Risin' up, back on the street

Did my time, took my chances

Went the distance, now I'm back on my feet

Just a man and his will to survive

So many times, it happens too fast

You change your passion for glory

Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past

You must fight just to keep them alive

It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the cream of the fight

Risin' up to the challenge of our rival

And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night

And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the Tiger...

[Moon]

I bet you guys never realized how one picture of a Tiger tank could end up stirring this hornets nest,lol

Oh, actually it's not a surprise at all. We've been down the same road so often now, the path is literally littered with bodies of the past The way I see it it's free PR. I forget who said it (Churchill?) - "I don't care if people talk good or bad about me, as long as they spell my name right"

[MarkEzra]

And a "Wild Cat"? Where is the grog to slap this impetuous beta tester to his knees?

[Sergei]

Oh, actually it's not a surprise at all. We've been down the same road so often now, the path is literally littered with bodies of the past The way I see it it's free PR. I forget who said it (Churchill?) - "I don't care if people talk good or bad about me, as long as they spell my name right"

Well said, Morten.

[MarkEzra]

I forget who said it (Churchill?) - "I don't care if people talk good or bad about me, as long as they spell my name right"

I ran a quick search and found:

Mae West in one book, two articles, a videotape, and several newspaper articles;

P.T. Barnum in two books and a motion picture biography;

George M. Cohan in two books;

Will Rogers in one article and an electronic encyclopedia;

W.C. Fields in one article.

But NO Churchill connection...BFC is this a Bug?

[Joe Shaw]

I ran a quick search and found:

Mae West in one book, two articles, a videotape, and several newspaper articles;

P.T. Barnum in two books and a motion picture biography;

George M. Cohan in two books;

Will Rogers in one article and an electronic encyclopedia;

W.C. Fields in one article.

But NO Churchill connection...BFC is this a Bug?

Even if it isn't I think we can all agree that they should fix or do somefink.

Joe

[Michael Emrys]

Are those buttercups and daisies?

And are they the proper type for the Normandy environment? This could be a rich field (pun intended) for modders to exploit.

[eddie01]

Nah, all of this was totally expected... Charles even wrote a poem in anticipation of this occasion:

Risin' up, back on the street

Did my time, took my chances

Went the distance, now I'm back on my feet

Just a man and his will to survive

So many times, it happens too fast

You change your passion for glory

Don't lose your grip on the dreams of the past

You must fight just to keep them alive

It's the eye of the Tiger, it's the cream of the fight

Risin' up to the challenge of our rival

And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night

And he's watchin' us all in the eye of the Tiger...

You should have put up a picture of some T34's, then you could change the poem to this-

Out along the edges

Always where I burn to be

The further on the edge

The hotter the intensity

Highway to the Danger Zone

Gonna take you

Right into the Danger Zone

[Other Means]

Leto;1122070']I don't find this sarcasm constructive, nor very helpful to BFC considering you are a beta tester. Do you not want an open discussion for potential customers to tell you what they want?

If not, then state it as such. Snide commentary like this leads people to believe this may be the case.

Their will be feedback good and bad. Their will be people telling you what they want, wishlists and concerns. It's your job to evaluate and use the data, not inject personal bias that is both insulting and unnecessary.

How you react to all this says a lot more about you (and unfortunately the company) than it does about the (majority) of the people posting here.

Sheesh.

Just to add, the point of the post is not lost on me, considering the history of these forums.

But... come on? Fighting fire with fire is an exercise in failure (in regards to respectful and constructive community building), unless it is to only serve your own personal whims.

Cheers!

Leto

It wasn't sarcasm Leto. Lighten up. I'm looking forward to WWII as much as anyone.

Christ, talk about projection.

[Michael Emrys]

FWIW, I have a hard on for Tigers in general...

You should get in touch with MeatEater. I think the two of you might be able to work something out.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

I want infantry to be afraid of MGs

I want MGs to be afraid of tanks

I want tanks to be afraid of ATGs

I want ATGs to be afraid of mortars

I want mortars to be afraid of infantry

I want arty to be a blind, deadly giant

I want Borris and Tommy and Joe and Fritz.

I want an Achillies and a Churchill XI and a Sherman 105.

I want a Tiger and a Panther and a T34/76 and a Wildcat

I want zooks and shreks and PIATs and fausts.

I want rain and clouds and fog and ice.

I want water and bridges and splashes and boats.

I want mud and sand and steppe and rocks.

I want immobilisations and gun hits and crew panics and abandoning

I want strafing and bombs and rockets and triple A.

I want trenches and airbursts and panic and prisoners.

I want rallying and bravery and outlandish results and stark, naked terror.

I want to cherry pick.

I want to TCP/IP WEGO.

I want to see action at a distance.

I want C2 and FOW

Are you sure you wouldn't rather have a bicycle and a teddy bear?

(Actually, that's a pretty good list.)

Michael

[Homo ferricus]

I know it's not worth posting, but this just feels wrong. Is it just me or is everybody's panties in a wrinkle today?

[[hirr]Leto]

It wasn't sarcasm Leto. Lighten up. I'm looking forward to WWII as much as anyone.

Christ, talk about projection.

Extremely happy to be proven wrong then.

What exactly do you mean when you state "Christ, talk about projection", though?

I don't understand?

Cheers!

Leto

[Moon]

I ran a quick search and found:

Mae West in one book, two articles, a videotape, and several newspaper articles;

P.T. Barnum in two books and a motion picture biography;

George M. Cohan in two books;

Will Rogers in one article and an electronic encyclopedia;

W.C. Fields in one article.

But NO Churchill connection...BFC is this a Bug?

Your internet must be faulty.

[Michael Emrys]

The fact is that people will make scenarios (and I will play them) for CM: Normandy outside the direct theatre of operations that the game represents, just like CMAK. That means US vs Tigers in scenarios that probably depict actions in Italy and in actions in western Europe that went right up to 1945, it makes sense for BFC to allow this flexibility in the game as it will mean more accessability to the game for people who don't care about the historical accuracy to the same level some of the hardcore fans do.

Given that BFC has already announced that they intend to drastically limit the force and equipment types in each module (compared to how it was in CMx1), I don't think this will be possible until we are well down the road in the number of modules available.

...it's up to the scenario designers whether they want to use them in a purely historic way or otherwise.

That much I agree with. But unless they are very patient, scenarios set in drastically different time frames are apt to be wildly a-historical.

Michael

[Sequoia]

I could be dead wrong, but I have a hunch we'll see more vehicles per initial release/module for WWII then we did/will for CMSF. Perhaps they'll charge more to cover the cost. End ungrounded speculation.

[Battlefront.com]

As Moon said, of course we knew what was going to happen when we posted the screenshot. It *always* happens when we post pre-release screenshots. It doesn't matter what the pic is of, there's always someone who wants to tear into it. If we had put up a screenshot of a Sherman perhaps GSX would have concluded the game is going to be everything he had ever hoped it would be and someone else would draw asinine conclusions, like that we weren't going to include German tanks.

And if we don't post any we take flak for that too

A fact life is that if you give gamers (in any genre) a chance to examine something there will be a negative backlash. The worst backlash typically comes from the hardcore gamer type. They are the ones who have shown repeated tendencies to go out of their way to try and kill off their own hobby. I say that because going out of their way to be negative, develop conspiracy theories, personally attack the people that make the games, etc. can hardly be seen as productive. Some, and I and one of them, would call it a symptom of some sort of psychosis. At the very least they appear to be hopelessly miserable Human beings and feel that it would be best if everybody else were that way too

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Sequoia,

I could be dead wrong, but I have a hunch we'll see more vehicles per initial release/module for WWII then we did/will for CMSF. Perhaps they'll charge more to cover the cost. End ungrounded speculation.

I haven't done a side by side count, but I suspect you are correct if you insert the word "unique" in front of "vehicles". CM:SF has a lot of variants of vehicles, some of which are pretty huge in terms of what capabilities they bring to the table. For example, an early T-72 compared to a TURMS-T. But within the Normandy timeframe the variety has more to do with the plethora of entirely different models of vehicles designed to do the same thing. Armored warfare was still new and therefore it isn't surprising that standardization isn't in the same ballpark as it is today.

BTW, I think it's funny to see some people argue that CM: Normandy will just be a tank fest at the expense of infantry, then complain like crazy that we don't have 300 vehicles in the game. I don't know about any of you, but I find much humor in such opinions

Steve

[costard]

As Moon said, of course we knew what was going to happen when we posted the screenshot. It *always* happens when we post pre-release screenshots. It doesn't matter what the pic is of, there's always someone who wants to tear into it. If we had put up a screenshot of a Sherman perhaps GSX would have concluded the game is going to be everything he had ever hoped it would be and someone else would draw asinine conclusions, like that we weren't going to include German tanks.

And if we don't post any we take flak for that too

A fact life is that if you give gamers (in any genre) a chance to examine something there will be a negative backlash. The worst backlash typically comes from the hardcore gamer type. They are the ones who have shown repeated tendencies to go out of their way to try and kill off their own hobby. I say that because going out of their way to be negative, develop conspiracy theories, personally attack the people that make the games, etc. can hardly be seen as productive. Some, and I and one of them, would call it a symptom of some sort of psychosis. At the very least they appear to be hopelessly miserable Human beings and feel that it would be best if everybody else were that way too

Steve

Cobblers. It's a simple and understandable reaction to the "tease" which you deliberately employ as part of your marketing technique and I'll bet you're delighted with the reaction so far.

All power to BFC - they make great games.

[Battlefront.com]

We've had long discussions about "teasing" before with other titles. It definitely is a tough thing to balance. You guys want to see stuff, but the game isn't finished so we must be selective. But whatever we show makes people want more, which simply isn't possible (early on for development reasons) or desirable (later on for marketing reasons). No matter what we show, or don't show, it's going to be a tease if someone views it that way. Kinda like seeing an attractive person in "too much" clothing

As for the reaction, yup... we're pleased. As with other early screenshots, the majority of people are pleased to see something and that makes us happy. The minority that isn't happy wasn't happy before, so it's routine stuff.

Steve