Yair Iny Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of the forum members, I'd have to say I kinda felt the same way as GSX when I saw the screenie. Differently to him, I don't think the choice of picture has any bearing on how the game is designed, and I have fairly high confidence I will like it when it comes out. But I would have preferred to see a Sherman, just cause it's a bit different than what everyone else does, and hey it's a picture which is seen by the forum members and avid fans anyway, so marketing appeal isn't that important in this context. Maybe it's just me, but in CMx1 I never played the Nazis and enjoyed it, I tried a few times, but didn't feel upset enough when I lost soldiers to engage in the game and enjoy it. So for me, and I recognise my solitude in this, a Tiger tank is just a target and come CM: Normandy, I'll finally have the air support to kill it right good and dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well, this is the usual "thanks" that we've come to expect from our loyal fans. Whatever we give you it isn't good enough Seriously though... it's absolutely childish (and I do choose my words carefully) to judge a game based on a single screenshot, either positively or negatively. GSX can bleet on and on and on about this or that, but what's the point? He hasn't played it and he certainly isn't keeping anything in context. No CM game, and that includes CM:SF, can be considered a "sell out" in the way he describes. Sure, a lot of people were disappointed with CM:SF (and CMAK and CMBB and CMBO to some extent or another), but one thing we've never done is compromise the content to fit a marketing angle. In fact, it could be argued that CM:SF was exactly the opposite since a WWII Normandy game would have been the most market friendly thing we could have done. Fortunately it's just one person without much perspective, though I'm sure he won't be the last. Wargamers can't help but be pessimistic, negative, out of context complainers Yair Iny, Differently to him, I don't think the choice of picture has any bearing on how the game is designed, and I have fairly high confidence I will like it when it comes out. But I would have preferred to see a Sherman, just cause it's a bit different than what everyone else does, and hey it's a picture which is seen by the forum members and avid fans anyway, so marketing appeal isn't that important in this context. Well, honestly I think a Sherman is pretty overdone as well. Picking something like a Stuart or a boring M3 Halftrack would probably have been less predictable. But as it so happened Dan felt like making the Tiger textures and so that's what you got a picture of. You see... from our perspective none of this marketing stuff matters from a development standpoint. Contrary to GSX's paranoia, the games we make aren't driven by marketing opportunities. We draw our marketing opportunities from within the game. Eventually CM Normandy will have fully textured Shermans, Stuarts, 2.5 ton trucks, Kübelwagens, Pak40s, etc., but right now all we have is a texture Tiger. Tigers are sexy, so why not show it? It's as simple as that. The lesson we could take from this is we shouldn't show anything until the demo. But that doesn't seem as fun for you all, so we'll ignore the wet blankets and just keep on going. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yes, because it sets the tone for the whole game. Graphics over substance all over again. That one screenie tells me all I need to know about the direction this will now take. Some of you guys seem to be so keen to find flaws with us that you are willing to make some pretty big leaps from reality in order to do so. Do you really want to know the story beheind why the first screen shot has a Tiger in it, from the guy who took it? The screen shot itself is actually one I took to share with the guys in house so they could see a WW2 vehicle in action, and as I hadnt intended it for extenal use I didnt overthink it. I chose the Tiger because it is actually textured, which to my surprise made for a much nicer screen shot than one that is not! There is no bocage in the screen shot because the art work for it is not in game yet, which made it tricky to add. And yup, terrain might not look quite like that youd expect in the US sector of Normandy because it is actually a CMSF map with some different textures I was testing. As for the Tiger itself...I built and textured the Tiger first before we had completely confirmed the time frame of the first game, as it is a favourite of mine. If we had confirmed the time frame before I built it the Tiger would have likely been quite a way down the priority list, possibly not making it into the game depending on our progress and certainly not making it in yet. So there you you have it, your questions answered and the great conspiracy out there for the world to see. Please forgive us. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Do I detect just a smidge of sarcasm? And they say that Germans have no sense of humor. Moon clearly has one. It's just...not...very developed. Yet. But there is still hope that if he hangs out with us long enough he may pick up such comedic skills as the finely edged double-entendre, for instance. Then perhaps people will no longer edge away from him in bars. He may even start to get lucky with the girls, though I think that's asking a lot. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dan does good work and that's a pretty decent Tiger. After CMBO I never used mods much because the stock textures were so good. What else needs to be said? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wot no stampeding herds of fully textured cows with puffy udders !???:mad::confused::mad: To make up for it I hope you will you have the infamous Cherbourg atomic V2 silos in full 3D and fully rendered!! Eventually CM Normandy will have fully textured Shermans, Stuarts, 2.5 ton trucks, Kübelwagens, Pak40s, etc., but right now all we have is a texture Tiger. Tigers are sexy, so why not show it? It's as simple as that. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wicky, Wot no stampeding herds of fully textured cows with puffy udders !??? Well, we have a fully textured Holstein in the game now, however it's such a cliche cow we didn't want you guys to get the wrong impression of the direction the game is taking. We're going to wait until we have a fully textured tree frog so you'll all know for sure that this game is really headed in the right direction. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I want to see a U-boat. There was one instance of a Stuart exchanging fire with a U-boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ah the Normandy Rainette Verte, that'll please the frog grogs I like them well done.... Groggy Wildlife resource http://www.frenchentree.com/france-poitou-charentes/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=21322 Wicky, Well, we have a fully textured Holstein in the game now, however it's such a cliche cow we didn't want you guys to get the wrong impression of the direction the game is taking. We're going to wait until we have a fully textured tree frog so you'll all know for sure that this game is really headed in the right direction. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Our first screen shot of CMII WWII! A great Tiger tank picture. eddie01: The degree to which those 1/4 scale remote-controlled Tiger tanks that you can buy kick butt is hard to overstate, just awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Meach, There was some speculation that it was at least a Panther on the Grassy Knoll, but the CIA killed all the witnesses. Hmmmm.... sneaky government agencies. You will be telling me next that there was a PaK 40 involved in the attack on Downing street from the IRA but really it was the Crown Prosecution Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saunders1953 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Meach, there was a PaK 40 involved in the attack on Downing street from the IRA but really it was the Crown Prosecution Service. No lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Guy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Thanks for the screenshot. I, for one, appreciated it immensely. I saw the Brit vehicles for CMSF and was happy when you released that and it is coming out a heck of a lot sooner than CM: Normandy (Which I like to call CM: Bocage to Bastogne). Do not let one person be a wet blanket on your efforts. I, along with many others, could care less what you release to us or in what order. I am just happy to see some progress. Thanks for all the hard work and please keep giving us hints/clues as I always enjoy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Contrary to GSX's paranoia, the games we make aren't driven by marketing opportunities. Jeezus Steve, keep your panties dry man. Of course the games you make are driven by marketing opportunities, you wouldnt be in business if they werent. Im sure you dont make the games just so that you can just play them? In fact youve stated this so many times that if you made another CM-1 type game you wouldnt eat. Youve also stated and hinted at the fact that if you got a military contract youd make a game for them, pocket the cash and we can live on the scraps. Forgive me for being a little untrusting though, because after the debacle that has been SF I think I have a right to be. Now dont get me wrong, Im putting food in your mouth by having bought SF, SF marines and will be buying the brits, so you cant say I dont like the game, becuase I do. But, and this is what you dont get, you dont get my unswerving loyalty because a few years ago you made a great game. If I like your games Ill buy them, so far so good there for you then. If I dont like bits of them, and the whole SF mess is a huge bit, then I will say that too. If you think its paranoid then so be it. If you dont pander to marketing then I await the announcement of CM-Normandy with baited breath. Finally, and before you start to insult me again, because thats what you do to guys that dont tow the party line, I get it that its your company and your game and your not beholding to me, and Im not beholding to you. So I will leave your little world in cyberspace, when the Demo is released I will play it, if the game stinks, I wont buy it, if its great then I will return here and tell you its great. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 pak 40 pah! it was a Sd Kfz 251/2D crewed by Andreas and a disgruntled bunch of CMBO's that hit Downing St with 3 rounds in a preemptive strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If I like your games Ill buy them, so far so good there for you then. If I dont like bits of them, and the whole SF mess is a huge bit, then I will say that too. If you think its paranoid then so be it. No one is asking you to do otherwise GSX. I hope everyone tries the demo before purchasing the game, thats what they are for and in general it makes the forum a happier place to be. The paranoia is coming into play when you take one screen shot and from it proclaim to all that the game is going to be an unhistorical mix of Tigers vs Firefly's in a Normandy with no bocage and then accuse us of selling out to the masses because of your assumption. Sorry, but when you are so far off the mark you are going to get called out on it just in case others reading the forum consider taking your views seriously. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie01 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 One thing I keep coming across when I read about the whole Tiger tank series, is the trouble they had with bad transmissions. Wouldn't that be something to try and add into this new sim! Would have to be a first I would think! Imagine moving into a good firing position, or trying to get out of a bad situation, and then all of a sudden, the tranny goes,lol That would be just my luck too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Its is already there, it called "immobilization". It happens to my tanks at the worst possible moment. Now whether or not the Normandy game will allow variable chances for this little problem based on vehicle type is another question. Answer anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Mechanical reliability and failures of different engines and transmissions are one thing that haven't been modelled in any iteration of CM. One thing is that it's unlikely that if a tank made a possibly several hours' drive to the front, it would break just as soon as the fighting started. It's more likely that it wouldn't have made it to the battle at all, instead it would be in a workshop in the rear, or somewhere along the road with the crew cursing a lot. Then there's the issue of having relevant and reliable data to base such things on. If it happened commonly in the battlefield, there would probably be some statistics to use for this. Bogging or damage are separate matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Meach, there was a PaK 40 involved in the attack on Downing street from the IRA but really it was the Crown Prosecution Service. No lie. That's just not cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 GSX, I think Dan said it best: Sorry, but when you are so far off the mark you are going to get called out on it just in case others reading the forum consider taking your views seriously. Not all opinions are of equal worth. Your opinion about the entire nature of the game based on a single screenshot is... well.. not very useful. It actually says more about you than it does about the game. You are given one screenshot and instead of withholding judgement, you instead try to link the shot to all of your worst fears about what CM Normandy might turn out to be. That's why I used the word "paranoia". There is absolutely no factual basis for you to have come to any of the conclusions you came to, including the initial state of release of CM:SF or any of the previous CM games. In fact, you and I had a debate about this before so I know that your opinions were formed by fears even before seeing this screenshot. Anyway, we are a game company. We make games. If customers buy them, we make more. If customers don't, we go out of business. We can not please everybody all the time, so customers should expect that sometimes they might not want to buy something we make. They should also understand that someday they might never buy from us again. There should be no hard feelings towards us since neither party has obligations to each other. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Actually Steve, based on the "official" feature list circulated by Moon earlier, we know exactly what the Normandy game will be like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Excellent stuff Battlefront! The Tiger looks even nicer than i had imagined or hoped I can'twait to see some Panzer IVs and StuGs with skirts the "random gear" feature on CMx2 vehicles is truly awesome; no more clone vehicles and finally random battle damaged skirts and equipment Are you guys still considering individual turret numbers? Anyway, thanks for the screenie! Gryph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Ross Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Kewl! If tanks are being included 'cos they're sexy then we just gotta have Fireflies too. Pretty please? They is waaay sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McIvan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Mechanical reliability and failures of different engines and transmissions are one thing that haven't been modelled in any iteration of CM. One thing is that it's unlikely that if a tank made a possibly several hours' drive to the front, it would break just as soon as the fighting started. It's more likely that it wouldn't have made it to the battle at all, instead it would be in a workshop in the rear, or somewhere along the road with the crew cursing a lot. Then there's the issue of having relevant and reliable data to base such things on. If it happened commonly in the battlefield, there would probably be some statistics to use for this. Bogging or damage are separate matters. It's also a truth that random elements like this, while they might be realistic, simply aren't any FUN from the point of view of a game.....and although it's borderline heresy to hardcore realists, there's a necessary balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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