Thomm Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 If I have a Syrian squad which is Crack and a Marine squad which is Crack, are there any differences besides hardware capabilities? I am really curious about that also. A definite answer would be most welcome, because then we could concentrate on looking for different capabilities of the respective weapon systems. Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 heh... we've been over this a couple thousand times since CMBO Beta Demo... Experience is independent of nationalities. So yes, a Crack Syrian Squad gets the same modifiers applied to various things (like morale, suppression, accuracy, etc) as a crack US Marines Squad. Hardware, other attributes, circumstances, and luck create differences independent of Experience. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleader Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I can confirm that the NATO Module for CM:SF will have German and Canadian forces in them. Yes, the plan for CM:SF 2 is to bring modern warfare to a temperate environment and update the military hardware for both sides. That means top end Russian equipment for the Red side as well as taking into account whatever changes happen for all forces between now and then. Oh, and of course all relevant improvements made for Normandy will also be in CM:SF 2. Steve Just like to say that this makes me as happy as a little girl...or a boy in a field. I'm more pumped now about CMSF 2 than the Normandy game. I'll just be glad to get the hell out of the desert really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handihoc Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Yes, the plan for CM:SF 2 is to bring modern warfare to a temperate environment and update the military hardware for both sides. That means top end Russian equipment for the Red side as well as taking into account whatever changes happen for all forces between now and then. Oh, and of course all relevant improvements made for Normandy will also be in CM:SF 2. Steve It just gets better and better! I remember, maybe twenty years ago (ouch!), with my best wargaming buddy, playing games like Confrontation, D-Day and Lords of Midnight on a ZX Spectrum. What fun they were, but jeez, how limited. And we dreamed of what the future might hold now that computers had arrived . . . . well, here we are, and I can barely hold it in waiting to see what you guys are going to turn out over the next year or so. Just hope I don't die first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Handihoc, My first thought was when I was in a car crash back in July was "Balls, not gonna see the Modules now!" Second thought "Wow, I'm alive!" about a minute later Somewhat relieved that I was actually gonna make it thru to see the Marines and Brits. I need to shuffle my priorities hahaahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handihoc Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Well, I'm glad you're still here, Meach (but where's Mishga lately?), and I hope you're recovering well. Hope too that we'll all be here when the Russians are coming as well as for liberating Europe and the world! Bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 SlapHappy, If you've played the Marines Module and feel that has nothing new to offer, then I think the answer is that the Brits and other Euro forces probably won't add much to the game for you. If you have played the Marines version and get a different feeling from them, then for sure the Brits and other Europeans will feel different all on their own. Even more so, I suspect, since there are so many new weapons, vehicles, formations, voices, etc. to experience compared to the differences between US Army and US Marines. And of course there is also Blue vs. Blue, though that's a sort of side benefit and not a primary one in our opinion. Steve Apart from the Blue Vs Blue I honestly dont think any new Mod will bring anything new to the gameplay (voices and vehicles aside). Im sure a UK platoon will just be a US platoon with new skins. Although the Marines did bring in some new aspects with Trucks and Amphibs and bigger squads. But the core gameplay will remain the same as it did from the Army to the Marines. Perhaps the UK will have onboard mortars? Not that this is necessarily a bad thing though as I plan my next tournament in SF to be between the US and Brits. I will have to think of a pretty extreme Sci Fi situation for it to take place in the ME but it should be fun though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 GSX, Apart from the Blue Vs Blue I honestly dont think any new Mod will bring anything new to the gameplay Could be, for you of course. For me... playing with the Marines feels completely different than playing with Army stuff. Having worked on the Brit Module so far, I think the same will be true for the Brits. There's a lot of unique kit in there. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 GSX, Could be, for you of course. For me... playing with the Marines feels completely different than playing with Army stuff. Having worked on the Brit Module so far, I think the same will be true for the Brits. There's a lot of unique kit in there. Steve Seems like it's subjective. I just played my first scenario with Marines and it was hugely different. Main points off the top of my head from one contrasting game: 1. Marine Plt had less firepower in their rides (trucks). 2. Marine squads did not carry javelin and so the Platoon main leg AT asset came in a Javelin pair and team carrying SMAW. This is much different to Army and needed constant consideration. I was only playing vs irregulars so I anticipate more impact against Mech and Armour. 3. Marine squad manpower and firepower is above its army counterpart. Hence I think I was too cautious initially with the squads. Also by last 1/2 game I was using split squads more often. 4. Marine squad 40mm chuckers made a real difference. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Equipment defines tactics so it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaragdadler Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 And that means without knowledge of tactics, no recognition of the difference that new equipment makes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Apart from the Blue Vs Blue I honestly dont think any new Mod will bring anything new to the gameplay (voices and vehicles aside). Im sure a UK platoon will just be a US platoon with new skins. Although the Marines did bring in some new aspects with Trucks and Amphibs and bigger squads. But the core gameplay will remain the same as it did from the Army to the Marines. Perhaps the UK will have onboard mortars? Not that this is necessarily a bad thing though as I plan my next tournament in SF to be between the US and Brits. I will have to think of a pretty extreme Sci Fi situation for it to take place in the ME but it should be fun though! So you either think that the Brits are going to be different or you don't. At the end of the day the Brits will bring a whole lot of difference - the accents are window dressing - if that is a deal breaker then I am sorry but to dismiss the kit just destroys me ...it's different and that is the point!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta228 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'll buy anything with a Challenger II in it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Steve, You do CM2 Fulda Gap 1985, I would pay 100.00. Pete I'll raise you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaragdadler Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 delivering imagination support http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGO_NImXg0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT6sAlyxHr0&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut2w_qTdLEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cool use of footage to weave a story. I also like the fact that some former home town musicians (Alloy Orchestra) were used for episode 8/9. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 So you either think that the Brits are going to be different or you don't. At the end of the day the Brits will bring a whole lot of difference - the accents are window dressing - if that is a deal breaker then I am sorry but to dismiss the kit just destroys me ...it's different and that is the point!!! I will get the brit Mod for the new skins but am under no illusions that doing the same stuff as I do with the US Army will get exactly the same results. Brits use almost the same weaponry as the US, have similar sized squads etc, vehicles though different equate to roughly the same. Perhaps the Challenger will be better than the Abrahams? It does have a better cross country capability and better armour, but the exact details are classified. Perhaps thats an inherint problem with trying to model modern warfare, it a lot of gueswork as Im sure the various militaries arent going to tell BF all of their secrets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I guess it depends on how detailed you look at it. If you go to a moderately coarse level, you can equate Syrian squads to US army. Key differences between UK and US forces: * No ubiquitous Javelin, If NLAW is included then you've got a short range mini-Javelin, but otherwise just in the battalion anti-tank platoon * Using a Warrior like a Bradley will get you blown up * CVR(T) - Scimitar and Spartan * Different balance on the small arms. SA80 can go full-auto, LSW has a longer reach, LMG has shorter reach * Commando mortar * LASM * Landrovers are very different between types. Using Snatch, WMIK and soft-skin like each other or like Humvees should get different results. * ISTAR kit is different. * 120 mm HESH and smoke * GMLRS * Flechette rockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Obviously I agree with Flamingknives The same "coarse" comparison can be made for all kinds of matchups. For example, did anybody use dramatically different tactics in CMBO with a British force and an American one? I don't think I did. When playing as the Germans, did you completely change your tactical planning and expectations if you got some PzIV Gs without skirts, or PzIV Js instead of Gs? I doubt it. Heck, I would go so far as to say that my tactics didn't change if I got Panthers instead of PzIVs. But did it feel different to command Brits instead of Yanks, have PzIV Gs with skirts one time and Panthers the next? It sure did for me. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Without being totally partisan, I think Brit units should have generally better experience and motivation than US units, for the simple reason that Brit soldiers are trained for longer than their US counterparts, or so I have been told. Here are some figures I pulled off the web with a simple search. They could be wrong but I have spoken first hand to a British soldier (TA) who was adamant that training in the British Army was longer than for the equivalent soldier in the US. american infantry training- 9 weeks british infantry training- 24 weeks USMC training- 13 weeks royal marine training- 32 weeks american airboune training- about 10 weeks im not 100% sure tho british para training- 28 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 american airboune training- about 10 weeks im not 100% sure tho Negative. Airborne training is 3 weeks. It's not that difficult to jump our of an airplane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 It's difficult to compare training times between services, not to mention nations, because they have different ways of approaching it. Just think of civilian schooling. There are two year higher education programs that are far more intensive than a four year program. Plus, when you subtract out all the time British soldiers are trained to drink tea properly, use a bayonet, learn how to eat food with flavor, how to understand the Scotts, etc. I think the training times come out to be similar to US ones Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 BTW, that 9 week training figure is the "Basic Training" period only. This is what everybody in the Army must go through before they specialize. Infantry (MOS 11B) is a total of 14 weeks, not 9 weeks. But as the US Army website states: "Job training for Infantryman requires 14 weeks of One Station Unit Training (OSUT), which includes Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training. The training will take place primarily in the field, with some classroom training. The reality is, though, that infantry training never really stops. Whether taking part in squad maneuvers, target practice or war games, Infantrymen are constantly working to keep their skills sharp and are in a constant state of preparedness." In other words, there is a structured basics program which every infantryman must go through, but it's not like for the rest of the soldier's time in uniform he sits around with absolutely nothing to do and zero new things to experience. So even that 14 week thing is kinda of deceiving. It could be said that the whole time in uniform is just one long training regime. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 GSX, Could be, for you of course. For me... playing with the Marines feels completely different than playing with Army stuff. Having worked on the Brit Module so far, I think the same will be true for the Brits. There's a lot of unique kit in there. Steve Yes, I agree that even changes in kit can cause a definite shift in the way battles flow. Still, from even that perspective, it seems like sometimes there isn't the pronounced change of effect I might have hoped for. For instance, the Hellhound 40mm grenade which is an enhanced version of the standard HE version or the SMAW thermobaric round never really seem to have the kick that I've seen when watching hairy-chested programs like Future Weapons. Especially the SMAW thermobaric. Also haven't noticed the penetrate and explode feature that makes the thermobaric round an effective building engagement system. I don't know, perhaps it's just a lack of graphical feedback that makes it seem pretty tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Smaragdadler, Had never seen it before, for which many thanks, but wow, did that bring up a lot of memories and push my buttons! At the time the Berlin Wall came down, I had a brother covering the Inter-German Border as a Bradley CFV commander and a study in my safe predicting 50% casualties in units like his 2/11 ACR fighting the covering force battle. Meanwhile, I was deeply concerned with anything and everything to do with the Soviet and Warsaw Pact militaries. Weapons I was lucky to have a still of then, such as the huge Tu-160 BLACKJACK, the vids show in full motion video. Gripping stuff! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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