The road ahead... a recap

[Battlefront.com]

Hi all,

In another thread someone asked about our plans now that CM:SF Marines is out. This question came up in second thread, and I think even a third one, this week. So I guess I should post my response here and sticky this thread for a while.

Our plan is to release a Module every 3-4 months. This should hold true for the British Module as well, but this is the first Module that we've not done "in-house" so there are some variables. Personally, I think things are going VERY well.

There are many threads on this Forum, some dating back several years, that explain the development philosophy we now have. Here is a very quick overview:

Title Release This is a major release, such as CM:SF and the initial CM:Normandy (name is still a placeholder) game. These are full priced products ($45 most likely) that offers enough game content to warrant that price. Specifics are based vary, but generally speaking shifts in geographical setting, timeframe, major shifts in units, fairly big new features, etc. combine to create a new Title.

Module Something that builds directly off of a Title product. Usually in the form of new units only, but not necessarily limited to that. For example, a game feature may be added because a new vehicle requires some sort of behavior not present in the game up until that point. However, such game features are specific to the needs of that Module.

Family this refers to a Title and its Modules.

Updates, be they bug fixes or improvements, to the game itself are always made to the Title product. This way you will never, ever have a situation where two people are playing different games because of what Modules they do, or do not, own. The fixes/improvements may be more applicable to one Module or another, but that's incidental and not really relevant.

Bug fixes and tweaks to things specific to a Module are released as their own stand-alone patches. For example, if we find that a bit of data is wrong for a Marines only vehicle, then we will release a Marines patch specifically to address that problem. This is necessary because the Modules are separate EXEs with their own data and supporting resources. Again, such fixes/tweaks are specific to Module content and therefore don't affect gameplay in any general sense like patches to the Title do.

Our plan is to make Module releases every 3-4 months, Title releases every 12 or so. Patches are released on an "as needed" basis with no hard cutoff in mind. At some point we'll say "this particular product is no longer supported" just like we eventually did with CMx1 games. However, since the basic code is going to be in use for such a long time it is possible that if someone pulls the rug out from under us that we will be able to offer a fix even if the game is several years old. In other words, if OpenGL 5 in the future breaks something we use now, we'll have to fix the code we're currently working with to use OpenGL 5 correctly. Those changes will hopefully be viable for us to offer previous customers, even if technically speaking their products are not supported. This was simply not possible with CMx1 since the code was not in use by the time various technology changes caused problems.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

And this related post from a different thread from a few days ago:

The second [WW2 Title, WW2 Normandy being the first] will pick up where Normandy leaves off and go through the end of the war. Because of the terrain, weather, and equipment changes in the Fall of 1944, what follows is basically an entirely different game from our perspective. Far too much for Modules to handle.

What this means is that after the initial Normandy release is out one group will be busy making Modules for it (British in Normandy, Arnhem, etc.) while the usual suspects start working on the late war stuff. This allows us to not only do the big changeover correctly, but it also gives us the time needed to continue adding major game enhancements to the system as a whole.

One of the major benefits of the new Module system is that we can stop having the grunt work (adding TO&E, models, art, scenarios, campaigns, etc.) compete with improving the game engine itself. From the customers' perspective this is great because there is both a steady flow of new stuff to play as well as a steadily improving game engine all within a fairly compact amount of time compared to CMx1. It also keeps us from burning out trying to do too much all at once, which is great for us but also good for you guys since happy developers are more productive developers

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

And now for something new

In about 2003 we set up our strategy described above. IIRC we told you guys about it in 2005, and took quite a bit of flak for it. Still do Some people simply don't understand that the CMx1 strategy was an unsustainable concept for us and that it had to change. If we were given a choice between doing more CMx1 games, or repeating that strategy, and making no games at all... we'd make no games at all. Yup, it was far more fun for you guys playing them than it was for us to make them. Fortunately, we chose to make CMx2 instead of applying for "real" jobs.

Now that our first Module is out, it is a fair question to ask... "so, how goes the new strategy?". I'm pleased to say that the doom sayers, who predicted before and after CM:SF was released that the new concept would fail, are wrong. It was just wishful thinking on their part The fact is that we sold more Marines Modules in the first 3 days post release than we expected to sell in its lifetime. Yup! And believe me, our sales predictions were not pessimistic. So here's a big thanks to you guys out there for the first tangible vote of confidence that we're headed in the right direction.

[note. The following two paragraphs were added on 10.7.08]The CMx2 game engine is not a monolithic product with a set of features that basically remain unchanged over the life of the engine itself. That was the way we did things with CMx1 and it was, largely, out of necessity because the code was difficult to work with. Instead, CMx2 is designed to evolve over time. Features we don't have time for today might show up tomorrow. Stuff that people aren't as thrilled about now will possibly be changed later. Things that people see as having great potential will be expanded upon, while features that don't seem to get people's hearts beating will not be expanded upon. So on and so forth.

The point is the game engine is an ever evolving platform for our wargaming hobby. It will never, ever have everything you guys want to see in it, but it will continue to have more than any other game company is willing (or even capable of) providing. Some will be unhappy with specific decisions we make, others will be overjoyed about the very same ones. The first rule of wargaming design work is to realize that you can't make everybody happy, therefore someone is always going to be upset. Focus on the wrong group and that will be the last game you make. Fortunately, we get to make that decision since it's our butts on the line

As you can hopefully see from the above posts, we're really just starting the CMx2 strategy. By this time next year things will really be in full swing. A little behind schedule (we spent about 1 year longer making CM:SF than anticipated, 2 years if you include the patches up through v1.10), but time is on our side now. The ever evolving CMx2 game engine will keep on going, evolving and improving as we go instead of stagnating and perishing like the old inflexible and difficult to use CMx1 code.

Thanks again for your feedback and dedication!

Steve

[ChrisND]

We are with you all the way there.

[Meach]

Yup. It's all good

[Topo]

We are with you all the way there.

absolutely!

[Yair Iny]

Steve and the rest of the Battlefront Staff,

If you keep giving us great value and continuous improvment in modules and titles like you did with the Marines module, you can definitely expect continued pre-orders and release day "mass attack" sales from us, at least as far as I'm concerned. So, as long as you keep doing what you are, your business model is more than sound

Cheers

[Inkompetent]

Glad to hear things are going well and that things aren't so bad for this dying genre s one could believe.

Now get your ass off of the forum and back to code on the British-module!

[bodkin]

I'm not an expert on late war western front equipment but I'm trying hard to think of enough significant new units after June 1944 that you'd need a whole new title to represent them.

I just hope the first title dosen't get neglected as each new toy comes out, I'm just a little concerned that if the titles become too fragmented it will make for a weaker online community.

[ChrisND]

I'm not an expert on late war western front equipment but I'm trying hard to think of enough significant new units after June 1944 that you'd need a whole new title to represent them.

The units (by themselves anyway) aren't the issue...

[Inkompetent]

I'm not an expert on late war western front equipment but I'm trying hard to think of enough significant new units after June 1944 that you'd need a whole new title to represent them.

I just hope the first title dosen't get neglected as each new toy comes out, I'm just a little concerned that if the titles become too fragmented it will make for a weaker online community.

Well, they can have a split between US and British forces. That's one expansion. Then if that campaign is for Normandy there is still a whole lot left to cover as the breach through Netherlands and eastern France. For example Operation: Market Garden. Not to mention the German counter-attacks with their SS panzer divisions in their last real attempt to push back on the western front. I'm sure there is stuff for quite a few expansions if one stretches past Normandy.

[panzermartin]

I really really hope we can see multiple skins introduced in the WW2 title. So many modding opportunities..it would be cool to see 2-3 Pz IV with bicolor, tricolor and ambush camos in the same battle. Even if the stock game doesnt include those, there could be an option for the modders to expand them, like the winter whitewash ones in CMx1. Or think about the variety in the wermacht uniforms, with the camo patterns mixed with standard field grey and so on.

[Splinty]

Any chance of going back to the Med at some point? CMAK was my favorite CMx1 title.

[Drusus]

The only problem I can see with the two titles for late war western front is what modules to make for the second title.

For first title this is easy. Make first US vs Wehrmacht, then put in SS and brits. That is already 2 modules after the title. Then add in some more exotic forces (airborne etc.).

Now the second title I can understand, too. For the new features a new game. No problem there. But what modules to make for that game? SS and brits again? I would not pay 25$x2 to buy the same units again.

Maybe there are enough interesting units in the late war period to make six different interesting modules with enough new units for every module to warrant the 25$ x 6. Any ideas what the four modules after SS & brits could be?

[cabal23]

When will hard copies ship? I downloaded my copy, but I want a hard copy marine manual in my hands. I take mine every time I go to the bathroom!

[Joe Shaw]

When will hard copies ship? I downloaded my copy, but I want a hard copy marine manual in my hands. I take mine every time I go to the bathroom!

Too much information ... and you wonder why you don't get more games.

Joe

[salwon]

I think terrain is more the issue with late war - winter specifically. As to what modules, who knows, especially since the units will already be in the modules for the first title.

[Sivodsi]

Am very happy to hear that things are going swimmingly well. Just hope that you don't get too rich too quickly and go and burn it all on fast women and slow tracked vehicles... especially when you've still got many modules, titles and whatever to make.

[Canada Guy]

I also loved the Med/Desert terrain (second to Ostfront). It also might not be too much work once other titles/modules have been released.

If we already have "WWII: Normandy" and "WWII: Late War Western Front" units plus terrain from CMSF then they could combine those (plus a few add ons) into WWII: Western Desert. This is assuming that the TO&E did not change that much between 1942/43 Afrika and 1944 Normandy. You could have the main game (Operation Torch) and 2 modules (Italians and Brits).

So we have

Title: CMSF

M1: Marines

M2: Brits

M3: Germans/Canadians/Dutch

Title: CM-WWII: Normandy

M1: Commonwealth

M2: Arnhem

M3: ?

Title: CM: Modern Temperate Climate

M1: ?

Title: CM-WWII: Late War Western Front

M1: ?

Title: CM: Ost Front

M1: ?

I would also like to make some suggestions

Title: Korean War (US vs N Koreans)

M1: Chinese

M2: Brits/Canadians/Turks

Title: Barbarossa (June - Oct)

M1: Push for Moscow (Snow terrain + more units)

M2: Push for Leningrad (enter the Finns)

I would also like to know if there is always a set number (or minimum number) of modules for each main title? So always 3 modules or always at least 2 modules or you will not make the main game title. So we could never expect the 1940 Russo-Finn war as a stand alone title (just as an example) as there would be no opportunity for follow on modules.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

All sounds like fun to me….

Good to have steady through flow of new stuff to play with. The greater focus is good news when it results in a constant flow of new toys for us…..

All very good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[hoolaman]

Altough you might not expect it from a chronological POV I think it would be a lot easier to add early war stuff. Hopefully it gets put in a mega-module of some sort. We sort of got that with CMAK, but not the 1939/40 European campaigns that many people hoped for.

Once you have modelled "France" or "Russia" +"Snow", it should be just as easy to add a Wermacht 1940/1 TO&E or a 1940 French/Brit combo as it is to add NATO to CMSF, or even adding 1941 Russians over the top of 1944 Russians. Many of the models will be done already and the terrain and sound will be just the same.

[Lethaface]

BFC, nice to hear things are going good!

It has been a pleasure to support a firm dedicated like yours. CMSF is my first but not my last CM game. You have a nice niche market, I hope your business plan works out win-win.

Keep up the good work from a happy CMSF & Marines owner.

Cheers, Lethaface

[Mord]

I'd love to see them do the whole of WWII.

The Pacific would be an awesome change from the typically Euro/Russia oriented games most people make. I'll be buying all of them regardless.

Any guarantee we'll get country specific buildings and terrain Steve, say with the first WWII title bleeding over into Holland, Belgium, and Germany?

Mord.

[Cpl Steiner]

Consider this. Once they've done WWII, they will have 1940s technology as well as modern technology. Wouldn't this put BFC in a great position to do the entire Arab Israeli Wars as a new game Family. You could start in '48 and move on to '67 and '73 plus later stuff like 80s invasion of Lebanon etc.

[Atago]

I hope that there is some consideration at BF to do a module for the Israeli defense force. Since the Syrians are done, we'd just need the IDF, though of course I'd want more - historical stuff back to 1967 or so at least (and all for an expansion price of course ).

I don't know how you decide what modules to do (meaning expansions such as CMSF marines was) but add my vote for the Israeli Defense forces! I'd actually be more interested in that one than UK, Germany, etc.

Mirkava tanks with troop carrying capabilities - be nice to have!