Opinions of 1.05?

[shafty]

Hang on. Have we got WEGO TCP/IP?

[aka_tom_w]

it was not on the list of things at were fixed

[Thomm]

Had only time to play Al Huqf from both sides so far!

First, Blue: Flawless performance. Took zero casualties before I ran into the BMP that instantly shredded half of a squad (can't they run out the back door?). All in all, close to perfect.

But then came the shock: I moved Red units into ambush positions and waited for the Blue units to arrive. Previously, this was the receipe for sure victory. But now: total slaughter amidst the Red defenders. I thought this might be attributable to night vision gear, so I modified the mission time ... same result. The worst moment came when the Bradley rolled through the street in front of two squads, and in front of another RPG squad on a roof top. The two close squads did not let off any RPGs, the one on the roof top shot twice to no effect (new damage model?) and then was killed in return by the Bradley.

I shall do more testing, but it seems that the Red units are next to useless now

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

By now, I am pretty convinced that Hide orders at the end of paths are *ignored*! Can somebody confirm this?

Best regards,

Thomm

[aka_tom_w]

I played Chance Encounter as the Red in v1.05 and had one Victory (fairly easy) and then got mauled by the Blue AI the second time around. The Red units are for sure more brittle and if the situation starts to turn bad for them they all seem to cascade down into shaken, routed or just plain useless in no time at all when the going gets tough then you can't really recover, in Elite FOW they don't really ever come back from routed, their just done for the duration. (Just an observation, I don't thinks its bad or wrong, but its hard to win in a fair fight with Red infantry units if they get scared).

[Thomm]

BMP is given target order to building. Starts turning turret. One second later Face order appears facing in direction opposite to target (no enemy there!). I am still watching in disbelieve, waiting for the inevitable AT4 to the back quarters of my BMP!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Webwing]

Dejavu.

Once again.

---

[Thomm]

Now that was interesting! A depleted squad spotted a US unit and was put to Hide instantly! Now, from a position obscured by the low wall bug I ordered another squad to area target a spot in front of the hidden blue squad. And, wow, that area fire was effective, with lots of grenades and RPGs mixed in! The blue side lost their nerves and were effectively flushed out of their hiding spot, only to be cut down! Impressive.

Best regards,

Thomm

PS: I set the Syrians to 'Crack'!

[Echo]

Please fix the "MG crew given move order abandons deployed MG" bug.

[pad152]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

I played Chance Encounter as the Red in v1.05 and had one Victory (fairly easy) and then got mauled by the Blue AI the second time around. The Red units are for sure more brittle and if the situation starts to turn bad for them they all seem to cascade down into shaken, routed or just plain useless in no time at all when the going gets tough then you can't really recover, in Elite FOW they don't really ever come back from routed, their just done for the duration. (Just an observation, I don't thinks its bad or wrong, but its hard to win in a fair fight with Red infantry units if they get scared).

This is one of the main issues with Shock Force, it's unbalanced (realistic - yes) but, still unbalanced! A true Red vs Blue game starting with US and Russian forces would have be better!

1.5 is a step up, but I still can't give it a thumbs up yet,the game still needs the following.

1. Something a lot closer to CM in Quick Battles w/purhase of units.

2. An AI vs AI mode (watch mode) so you can see how the AI carries out it's plan when using the editor. You need to see how the AI plans are going to work to create real good scenarios. Having to place spies is just dumb!

3. A better campaign, something more than just a bunch of linked battles, something closer to Close Combat campaigns where units carry over would be great with points to repair/rearm/purchase forces in between battles.

4. More variety of unit types once 1,2, & 3 are addressed!

[ December 16, 2007, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: pad152 ]

[Thomm]

Ooops. Now my crack troops attacked the Bradley with *grenades*, forcing the crew to dismount!!!

Both squads involved still have their six RPGs. So it must indeed have been grenades they used, no?!

Best regards,

Thomm

[yapma]

I am pretty pleased with the patch, especially:

1. the LOS building/wall fix

2. the improved hunt command for infantry

3. the weapon tool-tip rollover

Good work.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by pad152:

This is one of the main issues with Shock Force, it's unbalanced (realistic - yes) but, still unbalanced! A true Red vs

yeah but, my response would be something like "you have to play with the hand you've been dealt" bearing in mind from a tactical point of view, strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight.

So I can't fault the fact that it is a military simulation of a potential (but not at all likely) military conflict between 2008 era US forces and 2008 era Syrian forces, so from the point of view of a simulation its just about bang on.

For a really fair fight there are some Red and Red scenario's out there and if anyone wants to try their hand at it, Blue on Blue scenario's can be designed too. (how much more game balance do you want?)

If you want to talk about game balance the single most unbalanced weapon system in the game is the Javelin and only the US has it, and depending on how many are in the game, it can become quite unbalanced very quickly, but once again:

"Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight." - Anonymous.

[ December 16, 2007, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by yapma:

2. the improved hunt command for infantry

.

improved how?

Hunt works fine as it is now, it should be called movement to contact, but when hunting the reaction to incoming fire is not near instantaneous.

[Battlefront.com]

Thanks for the continued feedback.

Pad152,

This is one of the main issues with Shock Force, it's unbalanced (realistic - yes) but, still unbalanced!

So was CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK. Especially CMBB All wargames I know of are inherently "unbalanced". Only fictitious ones aren't, because in real life one country tends not to mess with another one unless it thinks it has some sort of edge. This can change over the course of a protracted conflict, like the Eastern Front, but what tends to happen is the sides switch off as to who is superior.

In CMBO the trick to not having unbalanced scenarios was to put reasonable numbers and types of German forces in tactical situations which were less-than-favorable. For example, having a bunch of King Tigers on a fairly flat 3000m long map against Shermans isn't what I'm talking about Same in CM:SF. Put a platoon of Abrams up against basic level T-72s on an open map and it's going to be a cakewalk. Break up the terrain and require the US to use infantry forces in awkward situations, or seriously outnumbered (which is entirely realistic), then you get something interesting.

Rollstoy,

Sounds like close range targeting of those Bradleys? IIRC the RPG-7 has a minimum arming distance (50m??), so it's possible they are in too close.

Steve

[Thomm]

A strange LOS issue. LOS was clear to the street, where the abandoned Bradley stood. The BMP did not spot the Bradley, yet the Bradley blocked LOS (geometrically, it should not have, though).

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

Generous clipping eases pathfinding!!!

[kipanderson]

Hi,

The fun is back…

With 1.05 CMSF is unrecognisably better… the old fun is back again at full power .

I always knew it was just the bugs… released too early for whatever reason, who cares now, but with 1.05 I found that I was never thinking “how to” while playing.. it was all about the tactics just as with CMX1. The game flowed as did CMBB. With no bugs and pathfinding and such fully up to standard all is now well with the world again.

CM is back… .

Now where is that Eastern Front version

All very good fun once again,

All the best,

Kip.

[Dan Dare]

hope that even if in bfc oppinion he has been a bad boy (...) the deffect that AdamL found(the squad's crawl to death)would be addressed. At least for those "better than regular" squads I've suffered and become depressed.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Dan Dare:

hope that even if in bfc oppinion he has been a bad boy (...) the deffect that AdamL found(the squad's crawl to death)would be addressed. At least for those "better than regular" squads I've suffered and become depressed.

Hey, it's called "auto-sneak-exhaustion".

Not that I know anything about it...

[Battlefront.com]

We always listen to the message even when the messenger makes it excruciatingly difficult to do so We also don't care who finds problems. First time poster, long time poster... a problem is a problem, doesn't matter who mentioned it first. Problem spotting isn't a contest, though some think of it as a spectator sport

There will be continual improvements to the TacAI over time. That's all I can say for now.

Version 1.06 will be a quick patch so it doesn't get bogged down and turn into a monster patch as v1.05. TacAI stuff is generally time intensive to get working right (programming and testing).

Steve

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[Meach]

I could not wait for Paradox version of the patch. The paradox version won't work on my machine anyways so I hi-jacked Mishga's machine.

Suffice to say I downloaded the CMSF and 1.05 patch from BFC and everything went smoothly.

It's awesome....small wall bug...meh..makes the battle more intense in some aspects. I am easy to please I guess but this is a world of difference from 1.04 for me.

Totally happy with the patch and just had some very very enjoyable QB's with the maps from the QBG.

Dynamic lighting is gorgeous. Infantry AI seems a whole lot better. Vehicles are more responsive. Good job, BFC, I say.

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by Adam1:

..it just has become very tiring to deal with personal comments directed at me for my criticism about the game.

Grow a pair. Merry Christmas.

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by Rollstoy:

Ooops. Now my crack troops attacked the Bradley with *grenades*, forcing the crew to dismount!!!

Both squads involved still have their six RPGs. So it must indeed have been grenades they used, no?!

Best regards,

Thomm

I just had that happen as well but it was my Brad. I was testing a scenario I made and rolled a Brad into where I knew an enemy position was. The RPG team that I wanted to fire on the Brad just sat there and ate 25mm while the squad next to them watched. So I moved the Bradley around to present a better target and still no RPGs. So while I was snooping around with the camera at ground level I see a lone Syrian lob a grenade and my crew immediatly dismounts and are shot to pieces.

Does the game now take minimum range into effect for RPGs? I don't think it did before as I have had guys firing RPG's and AT4s at point blank range. I will also have to check what orders I gave my infantry as they seemed totally passive.