A little bit about buildings

[Battlefront.com]

Hi all,

I don't want to get into too many details about buildings just yet, but I do want to hit the high points (in no particular order). One thing to keep in mind is that the scenario designer has a lot of flexibility when it comes to what a specific building will be like. So anything in the following list that hints at choices means a choice for the scenario designer.

1. Many stories (levels) now possible. I don't know what the limit will be, but we'll probably cap it at 6. Anything above that is problematic and quite useless from a game standpoint. These will be directly simulated, not abstracted.

2. Roof tops can be used if there is access to them.

3. Basements are an option for a building now. If I get my way there will be two types... one that has windows and one that does not. Up to Charles

4. Stairs are directly simulated. However, stairs are somewhat abstracted still. There is somewhat of a choice about where to locate them.

5. Interior rooms are abstractly simulated. There is a choice about how this is simulated.

6. Buildings are deformable. Yes, this means specific, individual walls can be damaged. Not quite sure how far we'll be able to take structural failures in the first game. Buildings in general are something we expect to improve from title to title (especially because of the hardware issues).

7. Windows and doors are directly simulated. Walls can have either doors, windows, doors and windows, or nothing at all. This affects entry/exit possibilities as well as fighting positions.

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

9. Building variety, in terms of shape and size, is pretty much up to the scenario designer. Want buildings all mashed together with doors and windows on the same sides? Done. Want buildings that are long and short next to ones that are tall and skinny? No problem.

10. Buildings can now be placed on two different axis... 90deg and 45deg. We had wanted to make it four different axis (90, 22.5, 45, and 67.5) but Charles nearly had a stroke when we talked about this. His last words before passing out were "dude... you're insane! Do you know how much code and computer power that would take?!?". Then there was silence over the phone and later I could hear his wife giving Charles' jar an emergency boost from one WineCape's best bottles of vino. With his ability to think restored I promised to never mention it again (well, at least until the second game )

11. Surrounding terrain can now be pressed right up against a building, or extremely near to it (depending on circumstances). This means you can have small alleyways, streets right in front, trees right next to, etc.

12. With the 1m x 1m terrain mesh underlying the terrain, there should be no major problems with putting buildings on slopes. Not quite sure if it is a foolproof thing, but hopefully it is.

Hmmmm... I think that hits the big points.

The one downside of this is that making urban areas in the Map Editor is going to involve a lot more work than CMx1. But that is to be expected. CMx1's buildings were highly abstracted and therefore it didn't take much time to mess with them because there were so few options. With the extra details comes more choices which means more "responsibility" for the designer. The interface is designed to make this as easy as possible, but all the new power will mean some extra work. Players will, of course, only notice the end product

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The one downside of this is that making urban areas in the Map Editor is going to involve a lot more work than CMx1. But that is to be expected.

Steve

Will we have the much anticipated "cut and paste" option in the editor itself?

Otherwise, cue aka_tom_w for some cheerleading. Sounds good.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Will we be able to place AT guns inside buildings?

[Battlefront.com]

I hope we can get in Cut/Paste. If not for the first game, then perhaps for the second.

I don't see any reason why AT guns can be placed in buildings in theory. Specifics are not yet worked out and won't be for some time. We know what we have to do to make this realistic, just have to see how it is we're going to do it.

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

Will we be able to place AT guns inside buildings?

We discussed this with Lewis a while back.

How common was this, really? I mean, outside of ASL?

[Pvt. Ryan]

It happened a lot in my CC games.

Ok, then can we place tanks inside buildings that don't have basements?

[Mord]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The one downside of this is that making urban areas in the Map Editor is going to involve a lot more work than CMx1.

Steve

That's not a downside brother that's a selling point!

Mord

[WindyCity]

Thanks for the reply Steve

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Otherwise, cue aka_tom_w for some cheerleading. Sounds good.

Ooo. Let me take care of that part : w00t. And I mean it real bad.

Seriously, all these options and new possibilities are a real treat. I was never quite fond of urban combat in CMx1but this... this is sooo promising ! Michael, I hope you are bracing yourself for a second edition of Ortona.

Wait. What's the theater again ?

[Nelson 1812]

No offence ..

First thread I have enjoyed reading on CMx2, starting to have real bones in it..

and having details to it that I understand!

[kipanderson]

Steve,

You seem to have every box ticked

I fully understand that with the leap in detail, will come a leap in the time required to take advantage of all the possibilities in designing urban environments.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[dalem]

Anyone want to take a bet on who will be the first of us to post a whine about getting some FO keyhole-sniped through a window while he's "hiding" against a back wall of a 3rd story room?

I predict the working title written on Steve's white board is "Combat Mission II: That'll Teach the Bastards to Keep Their Effing Heads Down".

Here endeth the predictions.

-dale

[Steiner14]

Once again, i'm extremely impressed. Thanks for the infos!

[SuomiKp]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

Steve

:confused:

[Salkin]

This will truly be a game rich in features .

I'm looking forward to some splodey urban combat that's for sure.

Steve, will all this detail be a problem when generating random maps? Will houses be simplified in the random maps ?

//Salkin

[Salkin]

Oh , and you missed a few things from Windy citys thread.

I'm guessing there wont be any simulated furniture but howabout lamp-posts.

These could definitely be a gameplay factor during night combat. When the enemy sneaks into a village they will be caught in the light from the lamp-posts.

This will make them an easier target , unless they cut the power to/destroy the lamp-posts.

Steve, any comments ?

//Salkin

[Edited because I can't write in english...]

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by SuomiKp:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

Steve

:confused: </font>

[SuomiKp]

Now I know what mouseholing mean's

I cant wait for this game either

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by SuomiKp:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

Steve

:confused: </font>

[Thomm]

Windows and doors are directly simulated.

That's the hottest news of all!!

Cannot wait to see how CMx2 soldiers arrange themselves around windows (one left, one right, ... or an MG on the window sill ...).

I am tempted to conclude from this that internal doors are simulated as well. Will that be the case?

Best regards,

Thomm

[Salkin]

I'm guessing internal doors and walls is a no, no.

//Salkin

[Panzer76]

Yay!

[Boris Balaban]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

Steve [/QB]

When setting up your units can you add Mouseholes to walls only in the room where you have a unit set up. :confused:

I stress only in the room where a squade is set up in the set up phase. :cool:

[Battlefront.com]

Interior stuff, such as furnishings, debirs, doors, walls, etc. are handled abstractly. Again, more settings for the scenario designer to play with. However, sometimes internal walls and doors are simulated directly. Depends on how scenario designers want do it.

You can put two building right up against each other. Set the common walls to have doors and bingo... a way to get from one building to the other without going outside or blowing a hole in the wall.

Put a 2 story building adjacent to a 3 story building, give the 2 story a flat roof and the 3 story a door on the common side on the 3rd floor. Now your guys can walk out onto the roof of the 2 story building.

I could go on and on about the possibilities now, but I think you guys get the drift... urban warfare is going to be a whole new experience in CMx2. Personally I feel that CMx1 did a better job with buildings than most, but CMx2 will likely be better than any other game out there. And I am including FPS games as well.

The only downside, besides the more involved scenario making, is that there will be a bit of a generic feel to the buildings from a graphical standpoint. Far less generic than CMx1 for sure, but not as rich as something like BF2. But then you have to consider that other game's maps are hand built, limited in size and scope, and often don't allow units to enter them... so like everything in life, there are tradeoffs.

Steve

[Mord]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Interior stuff, such as furnishings, debirs, doors, walls, etc. are handled abstractly. Again, more settings for the scenario designer to play with. However, sometimes internal walls and doors are simulated directly. Depends on how scenario designers want do it.

Steve

I pretty much get the gist of what you were saying with the rest of your post but are you saying that designers will be able to place walls and the like if they want? or Just walls and doors?

This is actually the part that confuses me;

"Interior stuff, such as furnishings, debirs, doors, walls, etc. are handled abstractly. Again, more settings for the scenario designer to play with."

The "abstract" and "more settings to play with" has me scratching my head.

Mord.