A little bit about buildings

[Philippe]

This perhaps a bit naive, but I thought mouseholes were made with the Mark I pickaxe.

[YankeeDog]

Yep, they were sometimes prepared ahead of time using hand tools.

But they were also created in the middle of battles using explosives. In fact, this is one very good way to storm an enemy-held building -- create a mousehole into the building where he doesn't expect it, and charge in. If done correctly, the explosion used to create the mousehole has the added bonus of ending a lot of force into the room on the other side, incapaciting any enemy in the immediate vicinity of the entry point.

This tactic is sometimes used by modern SWAT and SF teams. IIRC, a ring-shaped charge created on the back of a tire inner tube filled with water is very efficient at creating a mousehole.

Cheers,

YD

[Michael Dorosh]

"Charge in"? That's two people who have said that. I thought the drill was mousehole, then grenades and/or tommy gun, THEN enter the room. Charging in was what they did on NYPD Blue with .38 Specials drawn, looking for perps.

[Battlefront.com]

Generic vs. Abstract - windows and doors are generic, but they are not abstract. This means there is a window at such and such a height with such and such a size positioned in this or that spot. That is direct and not abstract. The generic issue comes in that all windows will be that size and relatively positioned whenever windows are present. You won't get narrow windows on one buildnig and big plate glass windows on another. At least not in terms of the size and position, the graphics are a different story as they can be customized for the building wall texture underneath. This set in stone, applicable to all, dimensional modeling is what is used for LOS, LOF, and movement rules. There might be other abstractions associated with windows/doors, but they are based on top of the underlying system just described.

Yes, mouseholing will only be practical with shaped charges or large caliber main gun rounds. Grenades, especially rifle grenades, are simply too wimpy to do that sort of thing. Those things are designed to fragment in all directions. AP rounds are designed to jet through metal. Shaped charges are designed for blast effect in one direction. Big difference.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Oh yeah... and yes, one of the advantages of going with narrower subject matter is we don't get into the problems of "we need a house that works as well for central Europe as it does for Western Russia and Germany too" problem. Now we can simply make one set of models and textures that work with a specific area without worrying about others. In that way buildings will look a lot less generic in CMx2 compared to CMx1.

However, when I said there will be a more generic feel to the buildings I meant vs. games like BF2 or any number of other eyecandy games that are out there. We can't compete with the visuals that come from a limited number of hand made buildings made by companies whose art budget is probably more than we made off of all the CMx1 games combined. These games are going towards $20,000,000 a title now... and most of that is art.

Steve

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

"Charge in"? That's two people who have said that. I thought the drill was mousehole, then grenades and/or tommy gun, THEN enter the room. Charging in was what they did on NYPD Blue with .38 Specials drawn, looking for perps.

Jeez, what are you expecting, a detailed excerpt from a SWAT training manual? Sure, grenades and bullets (or flashbangs, for law enforcement) often preceed "charging in", but since this threat is about mouseholing, and not storming buildings specifically, I figured a point-by-point description was unnecessary.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

"Charge in"? That's two people who have said that. I thought the drill was mousehole, then grenades and/or tommy gun, THEN enter the room. Charging in was what they did on NYPD Blue with .38 Specials drawn, looking for perps.

Jeez, what are you expecting, a detailed excerpt from a SWAT training manual? Sure, grenades and bullets (or flashbangs, for law enforcement) often preceed "charging in", but since this threat is about mouseholing, and not storming buildings specifically, I figured a point-by-point description was unnecessary. </font>

[Liebchen]

Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SuomiKp:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

8. Mouseholing is now possible.

Steve

:confused: </font>

[RockinHarry]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

3. Basements are an option for a building now. If I get my way there will be two types... one that has windows and one that does not. Up to Charles

Cool! :cool: Do all "solid" (brick, masonry,..) buildings have the basement option, independent from size? Many farmbuildings in europe had solid basements that made for excellent fortified cover position. The Brits "complained" a lot about these during the "Veritable" operation, but there´s surely numerous other examples where fortified farm buildings offered protection like a bunker or dugout! Oh...while at the topic, will there be another option for a building to be a fortified strongpoint? Something like a building showing extra sandbag reinforcements, locked main doors ect where a player needs some more efforts to make his way in and root occupants out! More a job for engineers so to say....hehe

Can rubbled/destroyed buildings block neighboring roads? If not, maybe a terrain type "rubble" could be invented that at least lets scenario designers place that stuff where appropiate?

Guess churches/steeples are now much more realistic with new # of possible stories available? Smoke stacks?

The generally intended level of abstraction sounds quite ok to me. Don´t go overboard! If there would be a choice between "industry standard" graphics or an improved AI/Gameplay, I would vote for the latter. No matter what the final release version of CMx2 will include, it´s already on my purchase list.