Announcing CMBB Distribution Details

[Scipio]

P.S.: The term 'Waffen-SS' is not and was never a violation of German law. I never heard about a single game (or even book, movie etc) that was put on a black list because it uses this term.

'Saving Privat Ryan' was for example not rated in Germany, even if there were a lot of SS soldiers (with runes!). Talonsofts's Campaign series and other wargames are still available here, even if there are a lot of SS units in it. We can also order a lot of books at amazon.de with 'Waffen-SS' in the title. No problemo.

Anyway, I can understand that BTS won't risc something and sell an European 'SS-Version'. But as I stated above, there are ways around it once the software is at home. And nothing of it violates the German law regarding the nazi hysteria.

[ July 10, 2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[ParaBellum]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

...What games to you know of that had SS runes or Totenkopf symbols in them? We honestly tried to find some sort of preceedent to show the ratings board that we were not the first. We also tried to find a game that clearly labled units as Waffen SS, but failed to find anything of that sort distributed in Germany (or by a German company). If you know of any, it would be good to about them....

Steve, as I said in my post the inclusion of Waffen-SS units in CMBO as it is now, is not against german law. I don't see SS-runes or other Nazi symbols in the game.

BTW Talon Soft's Western Front includes SS-units. I don't have Eastern Front right here but I'm pretty sure it includes SS-units, too. Both Eastern Front and Western Front were successful wargames here in Germany, just a look in my (german) manual shows SS-Panzergrenadiere, SS-Schützen, hell, they even have SS-cavalry! And the Close Combat series, another very popular wargame here also inlcudes SS-units.

These games never had any problem with our BPjS.

Again to make it clear:

Show SS-runes or swastikas in a computer game here in Germany and you're in trouble. The inclusion of these troops in a wargame that covers WWII and portrays them in a way that does not glorify SS or Nazi ideology is a different shoe.

And to the 'sloppy translation', there was a thread some time ago on the CDV board where some kind souls tried to alter some of the more obvious errors with a hex editor.

And I remember the uproar caused by CDV's copy protection when Sudden Strike came out. A lot of people couldn't play it on their machines and had to wait for a patch to fix this.

Two of my friends who bought the CDV version of CMBO have problems running it on their DVD drives due to the copy protection mechanism.

So, again I respect your decision from a business point of view but I remain a little cautious about CDV.

BTW please don't take this as ungrateful whining but as concerns from a big supporter.

[ July 10, 2002, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ]

[Terence]

Personally, I like the German law. I don't like the swastika, I don't like to look at it, and I sleep easier at night knowing that one of my favorite games won't be festooned with them.

All you swastika festooners are more than capable of festooning your respective copies of Combat Mission with all the swastikas you want.

Here, take mine. They make my skull itch.

Also, isn't 'festoon' a nifty euhphonious word?

[illo]

Again to make it clear:

Show SS-runes or swastikas in a computer game here in Germany and you're in trouble. The inclusion of these troops in a wargame that covers WWII and portrays them in a way that does not glorify SS or Nazi ideology is a different shoe.

People never learn.

Censorship goes on like in nazi era. :eek:

Ridicilous.

[ July 10, 2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: illo ]

[Kallimakhos]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Show SS-runes or swastikas in a computer game here in Germany and you're in trouble.

I'm curious, which stand does the German law take on Finnish swastikas? Obviously I don't know if the CMBB versions of Finnish tanks will have swastikas, but if they do, would this be problem in Germany?

(Note that the Finnish swastika didn't have any historical relationship to the Nazi symbol)

[Prinz Eugen]

Hell, I was terrified at first having to hear I'm forced to order my CM BB CDV. Surely it can't be of the same high quality as the US version?

Now that I come to think of it, nothing else will be changed except the SS-thingy. Nothing else. I would suppose the game functions in exactly the same way as the US version, so why all the fuss?

I will be ordering my copy from the UK, which should guarantee I'm getting the manual in its original form. Hey, it's the same English as in UK (well, almost so there shouldn't be any glitches with the translation. If CDV go and tamper with the manual in the UK-vers, I'm going to kick they're asses ! :mad: But I won't think that is the case.

With CMBB nearing it's release, I wonder why folks around here are not thrilled to the extreme. Hey, it's going to be the game of games that we've been waiting for ! Why bitch about something so small as having to buy your copy from CDV? If you're not finding it in your nearest store, then oreder it elsewhere. If you want to have the identical US version, then get a frien over there to mail it to you. If you still are unhappy about the financially extreme wise decision to sell CMBB via retail stores around Europe, then I think you ought to release your anger elsewhere than in this forum.

Instead of bitching to the team that is BTS, you should praise them. There is nothing like CM out there, and you really should be thankful about it.

To MadMatt & Co: Thanks! Ignore the whining and keep up the good work !

[Jarmo]

Originally posted by Panzer Boxb:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jarmo:

About the Mac version. Is it a hybrid?

I currently play with Mac, but I also have a (lot faster) PC.

I was thinking of switching my CM playing to it with CMBB,

or at least have been toying with the idea.

If it ships as a hybrid, like CMBO did, I'm a happy camper.

But If it's a mac-only version, I'll have to start thinking about

which version I'll be getting.

I'd probably still go for mac-version, (especially with the

unmodified vs modified issue), but the 400 vs 1800 Mhz

difference is indeed tempting me to the dark side.

I do believe it was already stated that the CDV version is Windows only and if you want the Mac version you can order it direct from BFC.</font>

[Joseph Porta]

I for one want historical accuracy in my games, that's the main issue for me in this case.

Waffengrenadiere ? Might as well be Hamstertruppen !

Get a friend in the US to buy it for you

Male,28,Norway seeks friend,american,adult for brief transaction of an import/export nature. Would anyone like to be my friend ?

[Jochen Schmidt]

Again! For me, the swastikas are not the point.

It is CDV - i bought some games from CDV - believe me - nothing can be more frustrating. their support is a joke. Especially this copy-protection and all the other stuff. They are absolutely incompetent. Not in selling - in supporting.

I don´t like them - and for the worst, i don´t like to be forced to wait for european patches, while the US-people have the newest immediatly.

BFC should earn the money they like to earn. I am not interested in - i am interested in having the fun with CMBB - and i can only repeat - with the original versions of games (in most cases the US one) i had never problems. With localized versions - it was nearly everytime frustrating.

I DON`T WANNA HAVE FRUSTRATION WITH CMBB!!!!!

All my hope was in ordering via Internet like i did with CMBO. And now this news.... i have to calm down...really, i have to calm down.

Thats the reason for posting here - i know, that BFC won´t change their decision - but i have to say my opinion here before i gonna explode. :mad: :mad: :confused: :confused:

[Kallimakhos]

How about Greece? Is it under CDV distribution or can we order from BTS?

[Vanir Ausf B]

Let me get this straight: Swastikas and SS runes are illegal, but the labeling of units as SS is not? If so, this is important since the Swastikas and SS runes can be easily added later as a mod, but the unit labels cannot be changed.

If CC labeled units as SS I don't see why CM can't.

[Stoffel]

Moon,

I really dont care about swastikas,ss signs or whatever.

biggest problem I am going to face is where to buy the cd!!

I live in a small town where the stores only have the average blockbusters.

Not even stores in bigger towns as Hilversum and Amersfoort has CMBO.

Which will probably mean I have to drive 50 or more km to Big towns as Amsterdam or Utrecht with the risk of not finding it there too.

Is there a different way for us to get the game??

I really,really dont like this

Henk

[M. Bates]

Bad news for UK CMBB fans:

Not only does the *UK-specific* CMBB suffer German censorship, but it will also have American spellings!

I can guarantee that every European CMBB player will always flinch at reading "Waffengrenadiere".

It is bound to be a source of minor annoyance, especially since the other half of the world will happily see "Waffen SS".

And I bet that all the mission briefings will mention those heroic "Waffengrenadiere".

[Barticus]

Originally posted by Jochen Schmidt:

Again! For me, the swastikas are not the point.

It is CDV - i bought some games from CDV - believe me - nothing can be more frustrating. their support is a joke. Especially this copy-protection and all the other stuff. They are absolutely incompetent. Not in selling - in supporting.

I don´t like them - and for the worst, i don´t like to be forced to wait for european patches, while the US-people have the newest immediatly.

BFC should earn the money they like to earn. I am not interested in - i am interested in having the fun with CMBB - and i can only repeat - with the original versions of games (in most cases the US one) i had never problems. With localized versions - it was nearly everytime frustrating.

I DON`T WANNA HAVE FRUSTRATION WITH CMBB!!!!!

All my hope was in ordering via Internet like i did with CMBO. And now this news.... i have to calm down...really, i have to calm down.

Thats the reason for posting here - i know, that BFC won´t change their decision - but i have to say my opinion here before i gonna explode. :mad: :mad: :confused: :confused:

Jochen;

I really don't think you have anything to worry about here. My impression, and I could be wrong, is that the only way CDV is involved with CMBB is in DISTRIBUTION. If you have any TECHNICAL issues with the game, then it's the boys at BFC who will be supporting you.

At least, that's my understanding.

Bart

[Vanir Ausf B]

Originally posted by Stoffel:

Is there a different way for us to get the game??

I really,really dont like this

As was stated earlier Amazon.uk should have it.

[Major LardLad]

Patches are my worry. If we in Europe have to wait for localised patches it'll be a bit of a bugger playing head to head games with people with different versions.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

Let me get this straight: Swastikas and SS runes are illegal, but the labeling of units as SS is not? If so, this is important since the Swastikas and SS runes can be easily added later as a mod, but the unit labels cannot be changed.

If CC labeled units as SS I don't see why CM can't.

Right.

[Madmatt]

Originally posted by felixgrey:

BFC,

I have a question along those lines. I'm currently a US Serviceman stationed in Germany. A couple of companies (Amazon to name one) will not ship computer games via the APO AE system b/c we live in Europe. The APO AE system is actually American mail (ie all packages are gathered in NY before being sent to Europe). Will I be able to order via the internet a copy of the game and have it sent via APO AE?

For those wondering I'm stationed in Germany but I'm currently outside of it and will not be able to make it to a German store until the Dec time frame and I would like to play the game before them!

Thanks,

Scott

From our Order Options and Policy Page (which no one ever seems to read!):

Military and Diplomatic Personnel

If your mailing address is currently at a military base then please use your "Serving Country" as the Country Location. For example, If you are located on a military base overseas but are serving in the British Military or Diplomatic Corps then you would select United Kingdom as the Country even though the base could be located in another country.

For US Service Personnel the State Field on the order forms allow you to select the specific region ex: Armed Forces Middle East (AE), and you would also use United States as the Country.

Madmatt

[Phantom Rocker]

BTS fears about the money?

Most of my friends PURCHASED CM:BO (in the USA), just to support BTS. (I guess that's really unique for a game). Those who purchased in Germany felt a bit cheated because the embarrassing translation and CDVs well known 'service'.

Several of my friends already stated that they will piss on every law & loality and illegaly download an US CM:BB. Not because of swastikas, runes or Waffen-SS. Because of CDV.

I guess BTS made not the best decission to save his money.

[ July 10, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Phantom Rocker ]

[Fred]

First of all,

we are not 'whining', but we are stating our opinion, and as customers we are allowed to do so.

Second, Steve, please no personal attacks.

People here disuss in long threads about the historical unit designation of this or that unit, they discuss about the correcht color and hue of a certain SS camo uniform in 1944.

BTS spent hundreds of hours doing research on historical authenticity, and now, they do surprised, that these same grogs would not accept some 'Hamstergrenadiere'.

And before some fanboys start to flame, read all my other posts I made in these years and you will see how much I love this game (and FC2, and OtR, and AS!).

BTS can make any business decision they like, its their company.

And I can comment.

The sad thing now is, that even people in the UK and other european countries must now abide to the german pc laws.

And, one of the other posters stated, that the use of the term SS would reinstallate a Nazi government here in germany; that is rediculous.

Now take a look at Neverwinter Nights. I bought the US version, alot of people the localized german version.

I got a complete manual and a nice cloth map, they not.

I am playing the latest 1.19 version of the game, those with the german version are still without the patch (and you should take a look in the Bioware forums, how much they need this patch in order to play online).

The copy protection scheme used by the european distributor of NWN interferes with a lot of DVD drives so it came to a funny incident:

NWN was cracked after about one day by pirates; paying customers, on the other hand, after weeks, are still not able to play the game b/c of the copy protection used.

Europe is the second biggest market for entertainment software, but the customers here are treated like ... well.

But some kind soul will certainly send me an US version, so everything will be fine with me.

Fred

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Major LardLad:

Patches are my worry. If we in Europe have to wait for localised patches it'll be a bit of a bugger playing head to head games with people with different versions.

I had German Western Front. I wasn't able to PBEM with the rest of the world, beacause it was incompatible to any other language version. In the ned I had to order in the US to play with someone outside of Germany. :mad:

[MrSpkr]

Christmas on a crutch! Your a bunch of danged ingrateful whiners, the lot of ya!

"Oh, my historical accuracy will be off because I'm too bloody dimwitted to read 'WaffenGrenadiers' as 'Waffen SS'!"

Bah!

"Oh, my gameplay will suffer because the lack of SS Runes will distract me during critical moments of the battle!"

Bah!

"BTS, I know we have all been whining about the release date forever, but now that you have announced concrete distribution plans, it's simply not good enough for us!"

Bah again, I say!

Lay the heck off of Steve and company! They've been working their butts off to make CMBB so much more than 'CMBO with T-34's' and now you guys are acting like a bunch of grade-schoolers who can't have another five minutes on the playground. Grow up and deal with the issue. Find an American or Canuck you trust to help you with the problem. Or maybe just ignore it 'cuz it ain't a big deal (please - is anyone REALLY going to walk past your computer screen, point and snicker because your briefing says 'WaffenGrenadiers'? If so, you have far deeper problems than BFC could ever hope to address.)

Or just drink a nice cool glass of shut the hell up!

Bunch of ingrates.

Steve

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I guess I will prefer to order CM:BB via a friend in the US if BTS will not offer an alternative solution.

Germany sucks.

I want a pure CM:BB, not the German 'blend'.

[Grey Hunter]

I think the main problem with the Waffen SS content is one of accuaracy, i must be annoying for the desginers (if only slightly) to have to ignore a major fact of history when you've just spent god knows how much time looking for the precise armour thickness an slope of a tank that most people have never heard of.

and people ignoring facts will not make them go away. no matter what the goverment may think.

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Christmas on a crutch! Your a bunch of danged ingrateful whiners, the lot of ya!

"Oh, my historical accuracy will be off because I'm too bloody dimwitted to read 'WaffenGrenadiers' as 'Waffen SS'!"

Bah!

"Oh, my gameplay will suffer because the lack of SS Runes will distract me during critical moments of the battle!"

Bah!

"BTS, I know we have all been whining about the release date forever, but now that you have announced concrete distribution plans, it's simply not good enough for us!"

Bah again, I say!

Lay the heck off of Steve and company! They've been working their butts off to make CMBB so much more than 'CMBO with T-34's' and now you guys are acting like a bunch of grade-schoolers who can't have another five minutes on the playground. Grow up and deal with the issue. Find an American or Canuck you trust to help you with the problem. Or maybe just ignore it 'cuz it ain't a big deal (please - is anyone REALLY going to walk past your computer screen, point and snicker because your briefing says 'WaffenGrenadiers'? If so, you have far deeper problems than BFC could ever hope to address.)

Or just drink a nice cool glass of shut the hell up!

Bunch of ingrates.

Steve

You can talk, Mr. America. You don't have any problems with your purchase. I propose you get your game from a good friend in the UK!

[ July 10, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Puff the Magic Dragon ]