Announcing CMBB Distribution Details

[Dschugaschwili]

Another question:

Will the US and the CDV version have the same or different EULAs?

Specifically I remember that the original CMBO manual allows making one copy of the CD for backup purposes. Now with all the talk about copy protection I wonder if this was changed for the CDV version of CMBO. Can somebody comment on that?

Dschugaschwili

[Holien]

Look guys it is no good beating your breasts here.

Enough has been said about the distribution.

Your choice is simple.

1. Buy from a CDV source in Europe.

2. Get an American friend.

3. Don't buy and cut your nose off to spite your face!

No amount of moaning is going to change this.

THE GAME PLAY WILL BE THE SAME no matter which version you have.

The copy protection issue is slightly unclear and I am sure will be answered soon.

H

[felixgrey]

BFC,

I have a question along those lines. I'm currently a US Serviceman stationed in Germany. A couple of companies (Amazon to name one) will not ship computer games via the APO AE system b/c we live in Europe. The APO AE system is actually American mail (ie all packages are gathered in NY before being sent to Europe). Will I be able to order via the internet a copy of the game and have it sent via APO AE?

For those wondering I'm stationed in Germany but I'm currently outside of it and will not be able to make it to a German store until the Dec time frame and I would like to play the game before them!

Thanks,

Scott

[André]

This is indeed very disappointing news for me… Surely I can understand why BTC want to use CDV for distributing the game in Europe through retail channels. That’s great, and it means much more people will buy the game than if it were only available through the web. But what about the European hardcore fans?

I don’t understand is why myself, a long time BTC and CM supporter from the early days, is not allowed to purchase the game directly from BTC upon release?!? I want to order the original game from the US as soon as it is released, and I don’t mind paying extra for shipping costs. I don’t see how this would harm CDV’s sales in Europe, cause I believe only the hardcore fans would order the game directly from BTC this way. And I know from previous experiences with CDV, that it will probably take some time for the game to reach Norway where I live. So please BTC, let the hardcore European fans order the game online directly from you, even if you charge us more.

From BTC info page:

Our goal is to serve gamers, rebuild our community, and breathe some life back into a hobby whose followers are still here in sizable numbers but have been tossed aside by the Industry.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Hof,

The UK English version will not have SS stuff in it. I thought I had explained this to you before.

Steve,

yes you had explained this before but all this talk about cdv doing a german version but I can also buy the english version from them confused me as to whether that english version would be identical to the US version and therefore not have the changes the german version has. Hence my inquiry.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

CDV is a German company. If their name is on *anything* that is in violation of German law they are comitting a criminal offense. It does not matter if the product is generally sold outside of Germany or not. CDV is simply obeying German law and therefore should not be looked down upon for this.

(...)

The Waffen SS are in the current CDV release of CMBO and will be in CMBB. However, we can not call them Waffen SS. Trust me, I know the German laws like the back of my hand, and so does CDV. The problem is that the German software ratings board can, without any recourse, black list any product that it feels is in violation of its own standards

I thought I had explained this ... you have to differentiate between the law which prohibits NS symbology like the runes and the swastika, and the software rating bopard for the protection of minors which is very vague and can get at your throat for anything like showing blood or in this case the original wording of the Waffengrenadiere. The former is the legislative and, in enforcement, the judicial branch of government, if you put a swastika in it, it's a criminal offense. The latter is an administrative organ, the executive branch of government. If they will rate your software as dangerous to minors, it will be banned from *sale over ther counter* and from open advertising and shelf display, which will admittedly totally ruin sales for an over-the-counter retailer such as CDV, but has nothing to do with being criminal or making the game "illegal". But I do not want to lecture here.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

As much as we REALLY dislike this we are not going to piss away a very good deal for us and the CM Community over something we have NO control over. Only an idiot would have made this a "deal breaker" issue. An idiot with principles, true, but still an idiot

Steve

I do respect your decision even though I disagree with it; I *do* know that for you this is your basis of economic existence and that you are not in it for altruistic musings. Thank you for clearing up the questions I raised in my original post (I hope you did notice in my original post that I did not mean to incite a flame or anything and am merely asking for specific information).

On the danger of getting on your nerves, I still have one very important and one minor question:

1) you hinted that the original CMBO had no swastikas since you had one product that shipped worldwide and since NS symbology is illegal in germany you had no swastikas in the game (btw I fully support the exclusion of NS symbology). Now that there will be a specific european-only and a non-european version, will the US verson have NS symbology in it, or will it be the same as CMBO? (this is an important question, since if you now include swastikas, this would make the private purchase of the game by a german from an american a criminal act [for both parties, btw])

2) out of sheer curiosity I am wondering: cdv with their point of view must implement their "Waffengrenadiere" all throughout the game, which means that the stock scenarios that ship with the original game must have their scenario briefings altered. Is this so? I tend to think it will sound funny when in the "Historical Background" of a scenario for example at Kursk it will talk about the attack of the russian 5th Guards Tank Army against the german 2nd Waffengrenadiere Tank Corps.

I would be very grateful for a response, especially on question #1.

Thank you for your patience,

sincerely,

M.Hofbauer

btw, you were asking for an example where SS was included as such in the game. The CloseCombat series had these units labeled as such, especially cc2 (distributed by Microsoft) and cc3 (distributed by SSI) IIRC, and they were sold over the counter here in germany.

[Juha Keratar]

Thanks for the clarification Steve. That I won't find name "SS" from the game is such a trivial thing that it can easily be overlooked, especially when I perfectly understand the reasons for the difference. My initial fear, though I didn't really believe it would be true, was that there would have been bigger differences in content.

-Lunael

[Guest Panzer Boxb]

Just a slight divergence here, but has anyone else noticing that Steve and the rest seem to have a lot more time to post lately? Chalk that up on the list of things that make you go "hmmmm".

I still would love to see an option given to pick-up our copy of CMBB direct whilst enjoying some sort of release "party". Of course, I'm biased cuz I only live in New Hampshire so the drive wouldn't be that bad.

[Scheer]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Wicky:

Will the retail Euro CM-BB be Mac compatible?

As the mail order CM-BO was dual but the retail version was PC only.

NOW thats a good question :eek:

I understand the CDV version of CMBO is Windoze ONLY .

Now there is a possibility (liklyhood) that for the release of CMBB, there will be a Mac only CD and a Windoze only CD (I'm guessing)?

Will CDV carry both? I would imagine they will.

Surely BFC won't tell us that all Europeans must buy CMBB from CDV and CDV (like the copy protection issue with CMBO, not makeing a Mac version) will only offer the "official" copy protected Windoze version of CMBB.

Intesting question :confused:

-tom w

[ July 10, 2002, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Xavier]

Come on guys...

All this debate about the ss or wg stuff is quite childish. BFC is going to sell us one of the best game of the market and we're still complaining about a minor issue which has NO influence on the in-game graphics or on the game engine... Tss, tss, it'sn't very kind of us or very respectful of the amazing work of the BFC team.

Be sure of one thing: if it's good for BFC, it's good for us!

[Preacher]

1) you hinted that the original CMBO had no swastikas since you had one product that shipped worldwide and since NS symbology is illegal in germany you had no swastikas in the game (btw I fully support the exclusion of NS symbology). Now that there will be a specific european-only and a non-european version, will the US verson have NS symbology in it, or will it be the same as CMBO? (this is an important question, since if you now include swastikas, this would make the private purchase of the game by a german from an american a criminal act [for both parties, btw])

Steve already answered this. No swastikas in any 'version' of the game. He stated that most folks support the exclusion of the symbol.

Preacher

[SturmSebber]

Hi!

Thanks Battlefront for your reply.

I do have some remarks/questions:

1)There is no intro movie in the CDV version i own (Belgium) only a CDV commercial. This is not a major point, but still, obviously you care about intromovies, otherwise you would not have made one for the US version.

2)Secondly :

I don't know if we will make a patch. For one year the German version of CMBO has been available and nobody has asked for such a patch. Yes, I am sure people might like it, but it hasn't been a huge issue. Most people know what the units are and don't care that the name is not exactly the same.

If i read between the lines that means :we are not going to make a patch wich will enable you to have SS instead of WG.Correct?

3) I want to thank you for this great game. And please do understand that we Europeans love this game too, but we want the original thing! We (the rest of Europe) should not be punished for some hypocrytical German rules.

I hope you can find time to make a last reply to my questions, thank you in adavance,

Sturmy (and sorry for the average English grammar)

[Jochen Schmidt]

Heinz 25th Panzreg said the right words. This hits my question!!!!

It is not a question of nazisymbols - CMBO didn´t need this and CMBB will not need it - the problem for me is:

I´m happy it CMBB could sold to the masses. For this reason a deal with CDV is o.k. and useful. I don´t have the right to tell Steve or Charles anything about their commercial plans - and i don´t want to do so. It´s their business and they know what to do.

But, as a hardcore wargame player i like to have the original accurate stuff in my game - and believe me, you won´t get the original, accurate stuff in a localiced version in germany. This makes me angry - i wanna have the game with all the good stuff - o.k., so i will order it via Internet directly from BTS.... but not so here.

This makes me more than angry- perhaps the localized version will be good, perhaps further patches will arrive in time - but i have my experiences with all those localized games - i order every game i like via Internet or always the original US/UK version. Especially with my farvourite wargamedream CMBB - i couldn´t do so.

You can´t imagine what this means to me - it would be the same like send us european forummembers back to the CDV-Forum in Germany....many, many thanks for it.

[Visom]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

The German and French CMBO versions have the same intro movie as the US version. There is, however, an additional CDV intro AVI which is played. It is very short and is just their logo from what I remember.

My (UK?) CDV version has no CM intro movie, just the CDV logo.

[James Crowley]

My two ha'pence worth.

There are a couple of issues for me.

The first is simple; freedom of choice. I want to retain the right, as a consumer, to purchase any product from where I please.

Living in the UK I am heartily sick of having "European" laws and "European" rights thrust at me, then having to pay higher prices than those same European countries, for the same products. Which is why I have just bought a "European" import car, saving £3000 off the UK list price.

Basically, I immensely dislike the idea of being told that I cannot purchase CMBB (or any other product) from where I choose. Selfish perhaps, but generally when I buy something I buy it for my purposes and not for the general good of the producer, the country of origin or the World economy.

Now, not only am I barred from purchasing CMBB from the US (other than via the "back door") but I will have to have a version whose content is dictated, not by the laws in the UK but by bloody German Law - no SS etc. OK we all "know" what they are; so what, we know what the tanks are as well - what next? The dumbed down version; no unit descriptions just "tanks, soldiers and cannons" :mad:

I appreciate that this represents a good business deal for BFC, whom I'm sure we all want to see prosper and continue to produce first class war games and, to that extent, I applaud it.

I'm sure the deal with CDV gave sales of CMBO a new lease of life and that far more copies of CMBB will be bought by the casual gamer also - at least in Europe.

So yet again the good old UK gets the **** end of the stick - "the Brits never complain, they'll take whatever the're given"

Talonsoft did it with East/west Front; the UK manual had only half of the content of the US version. Hey! maybe we're smarter - we don't need a manual at all - how about a four page folded card. That would cut distribution costs.

Well, I can see why it is being done but I don't like it. I think it does a diservice to the long-term European fan base and I have to wonder; is this just the thin end of the wedge!

I will definately NOT be buying the CDV version.

I don't have a American "friend" so I'll have to find some way of getting a US version which is a pain in the arse.

Not a happy bunny, sorry, but there you are!

[Jarmo]

About the Mac version. Is it a hybrid?

I currently play with Mac, but I also have a (lot faster) PC.

I was thinking of switching my CM playing to it with CMBB,

or at least have been toying with the idea.

If it ships as a hybrid, like CMBO did, I'm a happy camper.

But If it's a mac-only version, I'll have to start thinking about

which version I'll be getting.

I'd probably still go for mac-version, (especially with the

unmodified vs modified issue), but the 400 vs 1800 Mhz

difference is indeed tempting me to the dark side.

[ July 10, 2002, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Jarmo ]

[Dschugaschwili]

This whole "I won't accept a version of CMBB that is altered in any way" discussion is getting out of control now. Come on, we're talking about one bitmap and two strings that will be changed in order to be able to sell the game in Germany without having to worry about legal issues (and as far as I understand, the German market is quite large).

As for those laws restricting the use of Nazi symbols in Germany, you may not like them, you may not think they are adequate for what they're designed for, but at least we're trying to do something to prevent something like the Third Reich from ever happening again.

Dschugaschwili

[Guest Panzer Boxb]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

About the Mac version. Is it a hybrid?

I currently play with Mac, but I also have a (lot faster) PC.

I was thinking of switching my CM playing to it with CMBB,

or at least have been toying with the idea.

If it ships as a hybrid, like CMBO did, I'm a happy camper.

But If it's a mac-only version, I'll have to start thinking about

which version I'll be getting.

I'd probably still go for mac-version, (especially with the

unmodified vs modified issue), but the 400 vs 1800 Mhz

difference is indeed tempting me to the dark side.

I do believe it was already stated that the CDV version is Windows only and if you want the Mac version you can order it direct from BFC.

[Xavier]

In fact, there is may be a risk. As it seems that some people do want the "real" CMBB. I just hope it won't improve the number of pirated US version of CMBB , just to make available a stuff which must be not.

[Feldgendarm]

Oh, I love the great, fantastic laws of my home country ... telling me what I may see and what not...

Ve Jermans do not need to use our own heads for zinking. Zee zinking do zee authorities for us.

Well, Hitler did not invade the British Isles - but German political correctness does via CDV. I would like to say that I am in no way connected to the German government, CDV or any other bunch of creeps

[Holien]

Hi,

I guess we would not be having this debate if the American Version of the game was the same as the European one?

If the changes are so small (and they do appear to be) why not have one rule (software version) for all? Would America be happy with that?

Anyway, it is obviously a matter of principal for some people. Those people have total free choice to use the back door to if they want.

H

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Moon:

From the news page...

07/08/02

PRODUCT NEWS: Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin Distribution Details

Battlefront.com is proud to announce its continuing cooperation with CDV Software Entertainment AG to bring “Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin” to European players. CDV will be the exclusive distributor for CMBB in Europe, including Germany, France, UK, Finland, Spain, Italy and other West European countries.

European players will find the game in their local retail stores. Besides the original English version, CDV will offer fully localized French and German versions. In Finland, players will be able to purchase the original English game including BOTH the English manual and an additional translated Finnish manual.

For other countries, including USA, Canada, Mexico, Asia, Australia, Eastern Europe and Africa, CMBB will be available directly through our online webstore as usual.

Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin's release date will be announced very soon!

OK maybe we should revisit this announcement.

This was posted because it was something that took a great deal of effort and time to negotiate and put in place. I'm Sure Steve and Charles and Matt and Dan and Martin are very proud of this arrangement because it will be financially lucrative.

This was supposed to be a "Good Thing", but Same as the "Good Thing" Rune Did with his first Chicago Sneak Peak of CMBB, then again there was a WHOLE lot of negativity that followed it as well. (I mean HOLY CRAP that was some "Special" negativity, that nonsense!)

When I first learned about Combat Mission there was an article on the internet I read that said the niche market of making Historically Accurate WWII Video games is FILLED with people who are negative and whine, bitch, complain and NIT PICK EVERY minute detail, so most War game makers say why bother and turn out CRAP like Hasblow's Squad Leader (haven't heard much about that title lately have we?). I'm sure someone here can cite that webpage/article about how the genre of wargames if filled with grogs that are NEGATIVE about just about everything.

Well now I guess I'm just being negative about all the negativity

These guys at BFC have been BUSTING their asses to get this thing out the door and now their latest announcement of how they are going to distribute it in Europe has been met with all the new negativity.

OK so some of you might rightly say, yeah well so what tom, you live in Canada so you can order from BFC directly and we can't, I guess that is fair.

BUT what I'm trying to say is that I know in my heart that Steve and Charles and Martin are NOT intentionally trying to alienate or piss anyone off, in fact just the opposite they are trying to make a GREAT new war game that we will all be thrilled to play, and they are trying to market it and distribute it in the most financially beneficially and profitable way. AND that good for business and good for the making of the NEXT BIG THING, from them, these guys need (and Deserve ) to be wildly finacially successful and that means more great games in the future.

If I was BFC would start to be concerned that every new annoucenment regarding the production, design, marketing, distribution and release of CMBB will be met with some NEW, and wildly creative form of negativity, undreamed of by even the most cynical amongst us.

Let's try and welcome some these announcements with enuthusiasm and an open mind and at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they are doing the BEST they can.

I'm SURE they are ALL under alot of stress and presure now as their production cycle approaches their own self imposed deadline (I'm sure, if they are good businessmen, they have some form of internal timeline and deadline and they are WISE not to disclose it!).

Good luck in the Final Leg of your journey to success with CMBB to Steve, Charles, Matt, Dan, Martin and Deanco (Did I miss anyone?) and thanks to ALL the Beta Testers their efforts feedback and of course those tantilizing Sneak Previews!

-tom w

P.S.(And if that sounded like I was trying to be amongst the first in line to receive CMBB for being complimentary, well I'm sorry you have seen right through my post to reveal my true intention to be one of the first to get their hands on CMBB here in Canada , BUT Hey, it was a sincere Post!)

[ July 10, 2002, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Potential Italian Player]

Originally posted by Francesco:

May I ask something, please?

I'm from Italy... is this E or W Europe? I also have to ask this...

Second: how do I know if the CVD CMBB will be the same of the BTS CMBB? I would prefer to buy it directly from BTS, because I liked their service when I bought CMBO....

Which will be the cost of CVD-distribution CMBB and BTS-distribution CMBB?

There will be an Itialian version? I'd prefer an original US version...

And also: when will it be releasedhere in Italy?How much time after its release from this site?

Will it be more swift to buy it from here (a local store) of from BTS site? (I don't live in Rome, so I can't be sure that one of the 3/4 local sores will have CMBB...

Thank you very much in advance...

1)South Europe for us, West Europe for the americans.

2)It's the same CDV.

the cost of CVD-distribution CMBB and BTS-distribution CMBB!!!???

3)CDV will be the exclusive distributor for CMBB in Europe, including Germany, France, UK, Finland, Spain, Italy and other West European countries(Moon's words).

4)CDV Knows the release date in Italy.

Many of our products and games are only sold online, so you won't find them anywhere else!

(BTS policy).

Yes Heinz very disappointing news ...

:confused:

[Sig]

Hello,

Just to give my opinion: the point, I believe, is not so much the few little thingies which will differ from the "west-european" version when compared to the US-version. It has more to do (I think) with the restriction of choice as to where you can buy the game. I have already been confronted which such thing in the past, and as far as I'm concerned, it touches a nerve. Bah, I'm probably a bit spoiled , but I hate to have this feeling of returning to the "good" old days of active protectionnism.

On the other hand, I feel BFC has every right to protect its best interests and success in business is all what I hope for them. So, I'll (grumble, grumble) accept this restriction to my consumer's frenzy, and like a regular bug or bacteria, I shall mutate and adapt...

Sig

PS: Oh forgot, Switzerland being not a member of the EU, do we have a special status, mh? Mmmmh? Like being some kind of extra-european country?? (Hint, hint)

[Scipio]

Folks, why the noise about the German version? Of course we in Germany and whole W-Europe feels pissed because of the German censorship. But there are always ways around it.

Once the game is out, one of our Amies can post the forged BMP. 'Someone' can post an update where the Waffen-Grenadiere (the most stupid name I ever heard, sorry) use their historic correct name. Just by mistake, of course. If 'someone' will not make this mistake, we find someone else.

Not because of two letters, or because we are all Nazis. Only to piss on the German law.