How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[dan/california]

2 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

So, basically, a fast moving drone with an autonomous targeting system.  Obviously this is theoretically possible to do, and Ukraine has done so much with drones already, but it would be quite risky.

What I could see happening is recognizing flight patterns for military aircraft and then putting the killer drones into the general area with prohibitions on striking anything outside of compatible parameters (altitude, airspeed, etc.).  It wouldn't be that hard to do something like that and have it work pretty reliably.

For example, send the drones to Russia's restricted air spaces and target anything within it.  To be extra safe, restrict the altitude to below something like 10,000 feet or, if attacking aircraft landing/taking off crank it down to 1000 ft.  That sort of stuff.

Now, whether the rumors you are talking about are true or not... this is coming. 

Steve

What Ukraine SHOULD do is simply declare all of Russian airspacfe within a thousand kilometers of the Ukrainian border a war zone, and say if it moves, it dies. I will point out there is not a single civilian plane moving over Ukraine, to the best of my knowledge, why should Russia be any different?

44 minutes ago, chrisl said:

You might get away with advance laying AT mines a few times, but eventually they'd start running smaller vehicles (service locomotives, or even trucks with train wheels) pushing a sacrificial train car or two (maybe with a very low plow, too) ahead of the trains.  It would certainly slow things down, but not necessarily bring it to a halt.

But drones that drop AT mines just a short way in front of the moving train?  You'd take advantage of the extemely long stopping distance and make it a lot harder to sweep the tracks.  And maybe easier than hitting the moving locomotive.  

Locomotives ought to be the single easiest thing to train an autonomous drone to hit. They are big, they run in fixed tracks, they have enormous, and hard to disguise signatures in infrared, and on five other types of detector. This strikes me as a great application for an EFP that fires straight down, from a drone flying horizontally. That copper lance straight through the boiler, or a diesel would be day ruining. Kind shocked both sides haven't had this going already.

Ukraine should start hitting locomotive repair facilities, too. Although I would keep shooting at oil refineries until there weren't any left as the single highest priority target for simpler drones. That is where a few ~20kg charges get the single biggest bang for the buck.

Edited March 31 by dan/california

[Tenses]

2 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

So, basically, a fast moving drone with an autonomous targeting system.  Obviously this is theoretically possible to do, and Ukraine has done so much with drones already, but it would be quite risky.

What I could see happening is recognizing flight patterns for military aircraft and then putting the killer drones into the general area with prohibitions on striking anything outside of compatible parameters (altitude, airspeed, etc.).  It wouldn't be that hard to do something like that and have it work pretty reliably.

For example, send the drones to Russia's restricted air spaces and target anything within it.  To be extra safe, restrict the altitude to below something like 10,000 feet or, if attacking aircraft landing/taking off crank it down to 1000 ft.  That sort of stuff.

Now, whether the rumors you are talking about are true or not... this is coming. 

Steve

Remember that this is Russia.

When 1000km range anti air drones will appear, we can be sure to see all russian military aircraft parasiting civilian airlines in no time.

The question is actually, if Ukraine should care.

[Holien]

1 hour ago, dan/california said:

Kind shocked both sides haven't had this going already.

Hmmm I wonder if the limited drones they have had up to this point had other more important targets on the actual front line....

Russia has had trouble even hitting stationary targets.

Ukraine has only just had the manufacturing capacity and capabilities to hit Russian oil facilities these things take time to develop, test and then manufacture in quantity. 

It will no doubt happen at some stage but to say it should have been done already is a bit naive...

I have had clients like you and I just smile...

If it was easy it would have been done already...

Humans you gotta love them...

Edited March 31 by Holien

[LongLeftFlank]

30 minutes ago, Holien said:

If it was easy it would have been done already...

 

Days of rage, baby.

Gotta get down to it / soldiers are gunning us down / shoulda been done long ago....

Edited March 31 by LongLeftFlank

[LongLeftFlank]

1 hour ago, Tenses said:

The question is actually, if Ukraine should care.

Yes, they definitely should (and it seems, do).

Remember, one of the gambits the Tucker wing is (ingenuously) pulling is basically: "what dog does America have in this fight? they're both  corrupt Slavic oligarchies. Screw 'em both."

Ukrainians killing foreign citizens by the hundred feeds that BS meme, sadly. Fine, they shouldn't be in Russia, blah blah blah, wevs.

[The_Capt]

2 hours ago, LongLeftFlank said:

Yes, they definitely should (and it seems, do).

Remember, one of the gambits the Tucker wing is (ingenuously) pulling is basically: "what dog does America have in this fight? they're both  corrupt Slavic oligarchies. Screw 'em both."

Ukrainians killing foreign citizens by the hundred feeds that BS meme, sadly. Fine, they shouldn't be in Russia, blah blah blah, wevs.

And then there is the minor quibble of being a deliberate warcrime.  At some point Ukraine is going to want justice (and/or compensation) for warcrimes Russia has committed.  Bad idea to throw away the high ground by blowing airliners out of the sky.

In this day and age Ukraine does not need some sort of antiquated (and expensive) massive “no-fly zone” that risks that kind of blowback.  The US already knows where the Russian military airfields are, and while military aircraft can technically land and refuel at a civilian airport, they cannot rearm and repair - if they did that then the airport is no longer civilian.

So a long range air denial capability need only establish no-fly over military airfields.  This is also, conveniently, when all military aircraft are forced to fly at “sub-Mach”.  We are basically talking about a platform that does what I suspect UK SOF have been doing for some time - go deep, lo profile and wait.  If the standoff is a couple hundred kms one could essentially deny military airfield operations.  Or better yet, arm them with FASCAM and mine the airfield on a regular basis.

That with some cyber and deep IA ops could really hurt the RUAF. This by the way would be a strategic campaign.  Ukraine really seems to be leaning into these to effect.  It is the one area they are getting better at while Russia is not.  Russia is basically doing what it has in the past, lobbing missiles at anything as more of a terror campaign than deliberate effects.  Kharkiv power plant has been pointed at as an example of Russia improving their game.  Maybe, but it took them over two f#cking years to hit a major power station that should have been obliterated on the first day.

 

[Haiduk]

Russians activated on Avdiivka direction again. Small groups tactic agian was changed on mass assaults. Enemy has advace in Semenivka area. Near Tonen'ke was spotted most large number of simultainously used armored vehicles in one attack at least for Avdiivka campaign - about 36 tanks and 12 BMPs. Reportedly 12 tanks and 8 BMPs were destroyed/damaged. Maybe video coming soon. 47th mech.brigade still holds Russians in Berdychi area.

Some details. 6th tank regiment of 90th tank division attacked and was decimated. This is the same regiment, which tried to drive to Kyiv through Brovary in column order during 8-11th of March 2022 and also suffered heavy losses, including own commander (the same episide, similar to first battle of "Shield of Kyiv" campaign). Russian TG claimed for two years of war 90th tank division changed two divisional sets of armored vehicles and alsmost the same number of personnel.

 

Edited March 31 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

Another BOOM of BMP-3

And result of Russian attack attempt on Robotyne. 10 vehicles minus.

 

[Haiduk]

Who missed Chelly, here it )

 

Edited March 31 by Haiduk

[Haiduk]

For March Russians set new "record" of gliding bomb usage - 2300 against 1500 in February

FAB-250/500/1500 UMPK, cluster RBK-500 UMPK and thermobarical ODAB-1500 UMPK were used

 

Edited March 31 by Haiduk

[Battlefront.com]

3 hours ago, Haiduk said:

Russians activated on Avdiivka direction again. Small groups tactic agian was changed on mass assaults. Enemy has advace in Semenivka area. Near Tonen'ke was spotted most large number of simultainously used armored vehicles in one attack at least for Avdiivka campaign - about 36 tanks and 12 BMPs. Reportedly 12 tanks and 8 BMPs were destroyed/damaged. Maybe video coming soon. 47th mech.brigade still holds Russians in Berdychi area.

Some details. 6th tank regiment of 90th tank division attacked and was decimated. This is the same regiment, which tried to drive to Kyiv through Brovary in column order during 8-11th of March 2022 and also suffered heavy losses, including own commander (the same episide, similar to first battle of "Shield of Kyiv" campaign). Russian TG claimed for two years of war 90th tank division changed two divisional sets of armored vehicles and alsmost the same number of personnel.

 

Interesting.  So it seems Russia decided to return to large scale concentrated mass.  We've not seen this since the first half of the first year of the war, most of that being in the first two (or so) months.

One possible take on this is that Russia has come to the conclusion that the new way (small scale concentrated mass) is too vulnerable and therefore unlikely to produce positive results.  And even when it does, small scale successes have no track record of taking significant territory.  Or put another way, penny packet attacks produce high losses for small gains.

The Russians seem to like repeating an experimental approach many times before drawing conclusions.  Does that mean we'll see a couple more large scale attacks like this before calling it quits? 

Steve

[Haiduk]

Alas, nest UKR AD assets - radar and S-300 launcher were destroyed, probably with double Iskander-M strike

 

[dan/california]

Their might a vote on Ukraine funding tomorrow. This is the day to write your Congressperson if you are in the U.S..

[sfhand]

18 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

I have no idea what this is about, other than rather tired one sided "truth is only what I want it to be" filtering of facts into neat, convenient, self defined buckets of right and wrong.

Anyway, I figured I'd just state that for me, personally, government sources of information and mainstream media make up a fraction of the information I've absorbed about this war over the last two years.  If someone says a house is on fire I check to see if it is before making a conclusion one way or another.

Steve

Steve,

What?

So, "How do you know what you know?" is now "rather tired one sided "truth is only what I want it to be" filtering of facts into neat, convenient, self defined buckets of right and wrong." ???

I guess you feel that way about Plato's cave allegory too... Good luck with that.

The essence of a good con is telling people what they want to hear, at least from my experience on both sides of the equation. Ignore it at your own peril.

Objecting to a government (any government, not just "mine") lying its people into war is "self defined buckets of right and wrong"? So, noble governmental lying then...

Do you endorse all governmental lying or just the lying that confirms your biases? As a thought experiment, without moralizing, how do you feel about the Untreated Syphilis Study at Tuskegee?

Or maybe you don't have any biases and have left the rest of us in Plato's cave?

Yeah, I could have been more direct and left it to "How do you know what you know?" disregarding some of our recent history but that was my choice and I stand by it as relevant to the question because "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" used to be considered wisdom. I guess it is now considered personal glorification through moralizing in some circles.

This entire "war" has been presented through moral lenses, name one war that hasn't been. So I understand why you seemingly assign that position of morality to me. While, just like everyone but narcissists and psychopaths, I have a sense of morality, highlighting that was not the purpose of the post. So many hold their beliefs with such certainty, unwarranted certainty IMHO, without ever asking "how do I know this to be true". Which brings us back to Plato's cave.

I don't object to you being stuck in Plato's cave with the rest of us. Of course you could claim you are no longer in the cave, but one can never be certain due to the nature of the cave. Maybe next time stop at "I have no idea what this is all about".

As for the those being overtly hostile and rude, whatever makes them happy, I don't care... they define themselves not me. Rock on!!!

As always, I hope everyone is having a great day.

[sfhand]

20 hours ago, The_Capt said:

Well we can’t and probably won’t in our lifetimes.  The “truth” is a floating point of agreement (are disagreement) among humans.  We are essentially a species with brains big enough to invent the big beautiful fictions.  We believe in them so hard that they may as well be true because they create conative impulse.  I don’t believe in God but Holy Wars are still going to happen.

As to the weird string of political conspiracies (John Kettler is that you?).  In my experience in government, conspiracies are the rare exception - and they usually get caught out…that is how we know about them.  Governments leak like sburke after a few beers on a good day.  Most TS stuff is over classified and sitting on 00’s era desktops.  The government can barely get above board things done let alone wage an effective mid/dis information campaign against its people.  The governments that can have to spend a ridiculous amount of time and energy, over a long period of time, to even get close.  Russia tries very hard but we know there are holes in the fence.  Hell even NK is not fully able to fully insulate its population from outside info.

So while people like you are digging bunkers and fitting for aluminum hats, the reality is that governments are big slow moving bureaucracies good at only one thing…protecting the bureaucracy.  

Beyond that I am not sure what Neo/Matrix thing you are really talking about.  The war?  The causes of the war?  The progress of the war?  We will never really know the truth about any of it in some universal truth because no such human truth exists outside of science.  How do I know gravity works like they tell me?  Well go jump off a building.  As to the rest it is best guesses and close enough.  We can see what we can see.

What is really weird is that the Information Age should make it impossible to lie.  One can quickly verify a lie in the ocean of information out there…that was the theory.  But what did we do with that ocean of info?  We saw more lies!  We linked patterns that are not there.  Are you being lied to…definitely.  And what should bake you noodle is that because you are a human being the front and center culprit in those lies are not XYZ…it is you, to yourself.  We lie to ourselves all the time.  We filter, bias, ignore, reject and spin every time you look in the mirror.  We lie to ourselves about everything all the time.  Welcome to humanity.  

Thanks for the thoughtful response,

I love almost all of it... except your notion of people like me... I am not a bunker and aluminum hat kind of guy. I also don't understand the "weird string of political conspiracies" bit (which both the political right and left engage in here in the good old USA, especially during election season) I used to be a part of "the reality based community" until they lost there minds along with their attempt to be reality based. I tend to try to stand on principle. That means I don't fit into the American political scene or the notions of many posters here.

We are all human. Just grains of sand on the beach of humanity (we all are, regardless of bunkers or social aspirations, they are us). Unlike all yet like all. Our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. As for myself, I accept reality as I understand it and am open to new insights.

Thanks again, have a great day!!!

 

[The_Capt]

7 minutes ago, sfhand said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response,

I love almost all of it... except your notion of people like me... I am not a bunker and aluminum hat kind of guy. I also don't understand the "weird string of political conspiracies" bit (which both the political right and left engage in here in the good old USA, especially during election season) I used to be a part of "the reality based community" until they lost there minds along with their attempt to be reality based. I tend to try to stand on principle. That means I don't fit into the American political scene or the notions of many posters here.

We are all human. Just grains of sand on the beach of humanity (we all are, regardless of bunkers or social aspirations, they are us). Unlike all yet like all. Our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. As for myself, I accept reality as I understand it and am open to new insights.

Thanks again, have a great day!!!

 

Dude, you promised “one and only post”.  Now you are weighing in and trying to defend something that none of are really sure what you are going on about.

Your question was “how do we really know what is happening” and then a bunch of conspiracy stuff from Vietnam to Hunter Biden. Misinformation is a thing.  Disinformation is a thing.  So what is your point?  If you are honestly asking how to suss out the truth, or at least something close to it - well go broad in sources, cross check and put in the work. Use Occam’s Razor heavily and avoid huge leaps of logic built on shaky assumptions.  The whole Vietnam Pentagon Papers has been so dramatized that the any truth has been lost.  Sure the higher ups knew the war was essentially unwinnable, but what were they going to do with that?  They did what we always did, kept going and hoped something would change to bail them out.  This is not a Star Chamber conspiracy. It is simple “we are f#cked, and all out of ideas”.

 

[danfrodo]

37 minutes ago, sfhand said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response,

I love almost all of it... except your notion of people like me... I am not a bunker and aluminum hat kind of guy. I also don't understand the "weird string of political conspiracies" bit (which both the political right and left engage in here in the good old USA, especially during election season) I used to be a part of "the reality based community" until they lost there minds along with their attempt to be reality based. I tend to try to stand on principle. That means I don't fit into the American political scene or the notions of many posters here.

We are all human. Just grains of sand on the beach of humanity (we all are, regardless of bunkers or social aspirations, they are us). Unlike all yet like all. Our greatest strengths are also our greatest weaknesses. As for myself, I accept reality as I understand it and am open to new insights.

Thanks again, have a great day!!!

 

Another idiot that thinks everyone else is an idiot.  He does the whole "look how intellectual I am" while having just previously said rightwing conspiracy stuff that has no basis in fact.  Then he poo poos 'reality based' thinking -- did you really say something that f--ing stupid?  So you base on principle -- but a principle is  utterly make-believe if it is not based on some kind of evidence-based reality.  Good lord you are as stupid as you are arrogant.  

But hey, keep going, this is really getting entertaining as you make an ever bigger fool of yourself w each post.

Edited March 31 by danfrodo

[Battlefront.com]

1 hour ago, sfhand said:

Steve,

What?

So, "How do you know what you know?" is now "rather tired one sided "truth is only what I want it to be" filtering of facts into neat, convenient, self defined buckets of right and wrong." ???

I guess you feel that way about Plato's cave allegory too... Good luck with that.

The essence of a good con is telling people what they want to hear, at least from my experience on both sides of the equation. Ignore it at your own peril.

Objecting to a government (any government, not just "mine") lying its people into war is "self defined buckets of right and wrong"? So, noble governmental lying then...

Do you endorse all governmental lying or just the lying that confirms your biases? As a thought experiment, without moralizing, how do you feel about the Untreated Syphilis Study at Tuskegee?

Or maybe you don't have any biases and have left the rest of us in Plato's cave?

Yeah, I could have been more direct and left it to "How do you know what you know?" disregarding some of our recent history but that was my choice and I stand by it as relevant to the question because "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" used to be considered wisdom. I guess it is now considered personal glorification through moralizing in some circles.

This entire "war" has been presented through moral lenses, name one war that hasn't been. So I understand why you seemingly assign that position of morality to me. While, just like everyone but narcissists and psychopaths, I have a sense of morality, highlighting that was not the purpose of the post. So many hold their beliefs with such certainty, unwarranted certainty IMHO, without ever asking "how do I know this to be true". Which brings us back to Plato's cave.

I don't object to you being stuck in Plato's cave with the rest of us. Of course you could claim you are no longer in the cave, but one can never be certain due to the nature of the cave. Maybe next time stop at "I have no idea what this is all about".

As for the those being overtly hostile and rude, whatever makes them happy, I don't care... they define themselves not me. Rock on!!!

As always, I hope everyone is having a great day.

So, I'm curious.  What do you think we're being lied to about?  Or do you think Hunter Biden is putting this big show on to help his daddy look good?

Here, I'll give you a helping hand.  Which of these statements do you disagree with and why:

1. The Putin regime is a brutal dictatorship that has increasingly less tolerance for anything that questions its legitimacy

2. Russia is a "bad actor" in the sense that it deliberately seeks to provoke conflict and undermine its opponents (i.e. everybody that isn't a subservient state)

3. Ukraine has a right to exist

4. Russia unilaterally launched a war against Ukraine, unprovoked and without any rational justification.

5. The war is one of genocide (see UN definition) that is intended to wipe Ukraine's culture and language off the map

6. Russia is losing massive quantities of military hardware that could have been, or would be, used to intimidate and/or invade its neighbors

Is there anything wrong with this narrative?

Steve

P.S.  And yes, I know Plato's Cave.  I studied it in college when I was getting my degree in History, with a particular concentration on the Soviet Union and Russia.

[The_Capt]

39 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

So, I'm curious.  What do you think we're being lied to about?  Or do you think Hunter Biden is putting this big show on to help his daddy look good?

Here, I'll give you a helping hand.  Which of these statements do you disagree with and why:

1. The Putin regime is a brutal dictatorship that has increasingly less tolerance for anything that questions its legitimacy

2. Russia is a "bad actor" in the sense that it deliberately seeks to provoke conflict and undermine its opponents (i.e. everybody that isn't a subservient state)

3. Ukraine has a right to exist

4. Russia unilaterally launched a war against Ukraine, unprovoked and without any rational justification.

5. The war is one of genocide (see UN definition) that is intended to wipe Ukraine's culture and language off the map

6. Russia is losing massive quantities of military hardware that could have been, or would be, used to intimidate and/or invade its neighbors

Is there anything wrong with this narrative?

Steve

P.S.  And yes, I know Plato's Cave.  I studied it in college when I was getting my degree in History, with a particular concentration on the Soviet Union and Russia.

Seriously what do they teach kids these days?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

How hard is it to do a google search and go on a personal learning journey?  But instead I will go troll a forum?  Next he will come back and declare that it was an “honest question” and we are all “sheeple”.  “Jesus was not actually born on 25 Dec!  Thalidomide!  United Fruit Company!  C’mon man, it was the ‘global elitist’ who started this war to distract from fluoride in the water!!”

[danfrodo]

19 minutes ago, The_Capt said:

C’mon man, it was the ‘global elitist’ who started this war to distract from fluoride in the water!!”

Glad to see you are in the know about those trying to pollute our precious bodily fluids.   The sheeple stupidly think fluoride is good for teeth, but it's actually a method for controlling our fluids and thereby our minds!

[hcrof]

2 hours ago, sfhand said:

Steve,

What?

So, "How do you know what you know?" is now "rather tired one sided "truth is only what I want it to be" filtering of facts into neat, convenient, self defined buckets of right and wrong." ???

I guess you feel that way about Plato's cave allegory too... Good luck with that.

The essence of a good con is telling people what they want to hear, at least from my experience on both sides of the equation. Ignore it at your own peril.

Objecting to a government (any government, not just "mine") lying its people into war is "self defined buckets of right and wrong"? So, noble governmental lying then...

Do you endorse all governmental lying or just the lying that confirms your biases? As a thought experiment, without moralizing, how do you feel about the Untreated Syphilis Study at Tuskegee?

Or maybe you don't have any biases and have left the rest of us in Plato's cave?

Yeah, I could have been more direct and left it to "How do you know what you know?" disregarding some of our recent history but that was my choice and I stand by it as relevant to the question because "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" used to be considered wisdom. I guess it is now considered personal glorification through moralizing in some circles.

This entire "war" has been presented through moral lenses, name one war that hasn't been. So I understand why you seemingly assign that position of morality to me. While, just like everyone but narcissists and psychopaths, I have a sense of morality, highlighting that was not the purpose of the post. So many hold their beliefs with such certainty, unwarranted certainty IMHO, without ever asking "how do I know this to be true". Which brings us back to Plato's cave.

I don't object to you being stuck in Plato's cave with the rest of us. Of course you could claim you are no longer in the cave, but one can never be certain due to the nature of the cave. Maybe next time stop at "I have no idea what this is all about".

As for the those being overtly hostile and rude, whatever makes them happy, I don't care... they define themselves not me. Rock on!!!

As always, I hope everyone is having a great day.

Sorry but can you explain in less than one paragraph what point or question you are trying to make here? I can't understand any of your posts. 

[Beleg85]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:03 PM, Kinophile said:

Difficult to counter. 

Ad vocem this issue with magazines: he talked about Bakhmut and Avdiivka battles where there was largest concentration of such wave tactics, but I remembered now curious explanation from a person cooperating with volunteers fighting actually on Kreminna front providing more details about it from their experience, something like 1 year ago. There they found bodies and took muscovite prisoners who were given exactly 3 magazines; not because Russians lacked AK ammo, but specifically to force first wave to come close to AFU trenches. Logic was to instruct them very carefully and profoundly that they have no chance in prolonged firefight when caught by defenders in open field; their only way of survival was to be close combat (oddly, these zeks were lavishly equipped with granades and rather solid vests).

So this was more modern version of musket era tactics, when sometimes soldiers were instructed to not load their muskets or even remove flintlocks entirely, to ensure bayonets were their only choice. Russians naturally still love this Suvorov spirit.

Edited March 31 by Beleg85

[Carolus]

For those who are interested in an overlook of the Russian force organisation.

[sfhand]

1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said:

So, I'm curious.  What do you think we're being lied to about?  Or do you think Hunter Biden is putting this big show on to help his daddy look good?

Here, I'll give you a helping hand.  Which of these statements do you disagree with and why:

1. The Putin regime is a brutal dictatorship that has increasingly less tolerance for anything that questions its legitimacy

2. Russia is a "bad actor" in the sense that it deliberately seeks to provoke conflict and undermine its opponents (i.e. everybody that isn't a subservient state)

3. Ukraine has a right to exist

4. Russia unilaterally launched a war against Ukraine, unprovoked and without any rational justification.

5. The war is one of genocide (see UN definition) that is intended to wipe Ukraine's culture and language off the map

6. Russia is losing massive quantities of military hardware that could have been, or would be, used to intimidate and/or invade its neighbors

Is there anything wrong with this narrative?

Steve

P.S.  And yes, I know Plato's Cave.  I studied it in college when I was getting my degree in History, with a particular concentration on the Soviet Union and Russia.

Steve,

I'm sure you appreciate my being a loyal customer of BF. You've stated so on this forum on more than one occasion if I remember correctly. So let me get this right, the hostility here, not necessarily from you, has nothing to do with my support for your business and my enjoyment of your products but over a political question? Really?

In my first post by design I did not address the topics of your current statements. Living in the US I have been exposed to all of the statements you put forward in some form or another. I have also been exposed to ideas that run counter to those statements. To get to the point, there are a few things that are ubiquitous in every war. Those things include death, suffering, and propaganda. I like to avoid all 3 when I don't have a dog in the fight, and in this case I don't have a dog in the fight. In short, I don't have a problem with anyone believing or disbelieving in the narrative you laid out.

I note and applaud you for having done the work to earn a degree in History with a particular concentration on the Soviet Union and Russia. Unless I am mistaken, on this topic you disagree with Prof. John Mearsheimer whose credentials are as impressive as yours, if not more so.

On to the statements according to my current understanding of the world:

1.partially true partially false

2. disproven by brics

3. sure

4.partially true partially false in part depending on what one considers a provocation (not universal; see individuals per inverse Plato's Republic) and what one considers violations of treaties and ethnic cleansing

5.I am not going to look up the UN definition of Genocide, a bridge too far, sorry, I am not a human rights lawyer

6.purely speculative

Now about that hostility. This is not directed at you Steve. Like the rest of you I have my big boy pants on. Like the rest of you I don't really give a rats behind what your opinions are about anything other than Combat Mission, and in most cases even that's questionable. What I was curious about is how so many can be so certain while living in a world so riddled with disinformation and propaganda. A few have resorted to varying forms of ad hominem, keep it up it reveals who you are and the absence of any cogent argument you might make, but most importantly the thinness of your skin.

I sincerely hope everyone is having a great day!

 

 

[sfhand]

3 hours ago, The_Capt said:

Dude, you promised “one and only post”.  Now you are weighing in and trying to defend something that none of are really sure what you are going on about.

Your question was “how do we really know what is happening” and then a bunch of conspiracy stuff from Vietnam to Hunter Biden. Misinformation is a thing.  Disinformation is a thing.  So what is your point?  If you are honestly asking how to suss out the truth, or at least something close to it - well go broad in sources, cross check and put in the work. Use Occam’s Razor heavily and avoid huge leaps of logic built on shaky assumptions.  The whole Vietnam Pentagon Papers has been so dramatized that the any truth has been lost.  Sure the higher ups knew the war was essentially unwinnable, but what were they going to do with that?  They did what we always did, kept going and hoped something would change to bail them out.  This is not a Star Chamber conspiracy. It is simple “we are f#cked, and all out of ideas”.

 

Hey, slow down. Stating ones intentions is not making a promise. Conspiracy stuff? I'm supposed to believe the Pentagon Papers were, how do you guys say it, a nothingburger? Not gonna happen. It's okay if its not your thing.

I sincerely hope you have a great day.