How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Lethaface]

1 hour ago, kraze said:

Russians aren't interested in ceasefire. This war is ideological to them. A some kind of a retarded jihad.

They are hell-bent on destroying Ukraine and doing ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians and won't agree on anything less.

Any ceasefire will be temporary and russians will just do murder or deportation on territories they occupy (see Crimea and Donbass, except this time it will be much worse due to these territories resisting). That would be letting our people die there for nothing, unprotected.

On the other side of the coin
The resolve of the Ukrainian defense has reminded or even inspired quite some parts of the world what it looks like to  successfully resist an oppressor. Things could have been much worse. I respect the mentality.
Stay strong! And hope majority of Ukraine can stay on the good side of the coin. So far that seems to be the case, unlike the other side.

[Battlefront.com]

1 hour ago, Sequoia said:

I took this as Steve making a joke. Am I wrong?

Yes, a joke.  But also a serious point that Russia is exposed to a lot more problems than just state sanctions.  In the US it is called "cancelling", which is a means of a corporation, institution, or organization expressing its disapproval by using its freedom to NOT support something.  Whatever official sanctions are placed on Russia, having non-governmental actors doing things on their own makes things so much worse for it.

Though so far Coke has said it will continue doing business in Russia.  It's the only one I know of so far that has made such a statement.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

16 minutes ago, akd said:

I doubt he will accept it, but in my opinion this is how Ukraine wins the war, even if it is the long war.

Yes, and it is the beginning of how Russia can win a better life for its people.  A lot of Putin's dirty secrets are going to come out into the public now.  Not only things like this, but intel the West has been holding back for diplomatic reasons.  For example, soon we will see where all the oligarch money is and how much it totals.

Not to mention what the hackers might do.

Steve

[Lethaface]

25 minutes ago, akd said:

I doubt he will accept it, but in my opinion this is how Ukraine wins the war, even if it is the long war.

Same here. Hope it will be short, but time will tell.

[sburke]

11 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Yes, a joke.  But also a serious point that Russia is exposed to a lot more problems than just state sanctions.  In the US it is called "cancelling", which is a means of a corporation, institution, or organization expressing its disapproval by using its freedom to NOT support something.  Whatever official sanctions are placed on Russia, having non-governmental actors doing things on their own makes things so much worse for it.

Though so far Coke has said it will continue doing business in Russia.  It's the only one I know of so far that has made such a statement.

Steve

I doubt that will last much longer.  If not I can see a major boycott of Coke products coming.  I doubt sales in Russia will make up for that.

[BeondTheGrave]

11 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

Yes, a joke.  But also a serious point that Russia is exposed to a lot more problems than just state sanctions.  In the US it is called "cancelling", which is a means of a corporation, institution, or organization expressing its disapproval by using its freedom to NOT support something.  Whatever official sanctions are placed on Russia, having non-governmental actors doing things on their own makes things so much worse for it.

Though so far Coke has said it will continue doing business in Russia.  It's the only one I know of so far that has made such a statement.

Steve

I think theyre still jealous that Pepsi got to have its own fleet. Coke is playing the long game here to become the most militarized beverage company in the world. Its a textbook example of the security dilemma now that I think of it. 

[danfrodo]

On the tactical side of things, I am struck by how much can be done w so little.  With the mud, the russian forces are mostly roadbound.  As they venture onto smaller roads passing through woods & villages the leading vehicles are hit.  The entire avenue of advance just backs up (we know this because the videos are made by the UA forces who own the territory after the attack). 

So it's interesting how in these conditions of mud and mostly smaller roads, even a squad or two can close an entire battalion group pretty easily.  Hit hard, either displace or wait for the next sortie to come down the road.  If spotting shells come in, run back to next position and wait.  ATGMs (+ courage!) really are wonder weapons.

[Armorgunner]

47 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

UKR AD shot down Russian Su-25 near Markhalivka village, Kyiv oblast, enemy pilot, falling, threw bombs on the village - several buildings were ruined, 6 civilains (including children) got killed. Russian pilot ejected and even engaged our soldiers, but was shot

Markhalivka after the strike

Remains of downed Su-25

Looks like how it was before

Dead pilot (graphic photo!)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNBMYEKXMAA1BII?format=jpg&name=large

His documents and ammunition

And when more manpads arrives, that problem (with Frogfoots harrasing troops, and civilians) should diminish

Edited March 4, 2022 by Armorgunner

[danfrodo]

wait, coke is not doing anything about Russia?  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO diet coke is the last vice I have left.  I haven't had a drink in 20 years and now coke stabs me in the back when it's all I have left?

[Armorgunner]

1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

@kraze, here is example of the FACT that Russian people are human just like every other human. This man gave statement from heart (after few minutes of skittishness), or he is perhaps the best undiscovered actor in the universe.

Have no more likes today, so give you a +1 here 

[kraze]

1 hour ago, Lethaface said:

@kraze, here is example of the FACT that Russian people are human just like every other human. This man gave statement from heart (after few minutes of skittishness), or he is perhaps the best undiscovered actor in the universe.

Part of russian modus operandi is to lie (remember those teary-eyed POWs that said "we thought we came to do a training exercise" and then docs were found where everybody consented to take part in an aggressive war abroad?) - another thing to remember is that only a minute before he was taken POW - he was still coming to kill us and had no reservations about it.

Can I say that he feels sorry only because he got caught?

For comparison - Belarus hasn't sent in the troops yet (not in any major way at least) because troops there are rioting and a few military trains got derailed by some "caring citizens" - delaying that attack, hopefully indefinitely.

But this guy, having a choice, signed an agreement to come and kill us. He had a choice, they all do.

 

And, once again, I'm all for showing a good treatment of POWs, because hearts and minds stuff does work to some degree.

Excluding artillery guys and CAS pilots naturally. Those are bound to suffer critical ammo cookoffs and repeated blunt traumas from trees they eject into respectively. I hope you understand why.

Edited March 4, 2022 by kraze

[panzermartin]

I'm sorry but some of the boycott things are rather retarded . A university in Milan thought to ban Dostoyevski. And on the funny but still retarded side a girl in a sandwichery told me they are banning russian salad. Freedom fries anyone? 

[Haiduk]

Terrritorial defense in action!

TD fighters and farmers trying to launch engine of abandoned T-80UD of 4th Guard "Kantemirovskaya" tank division. There is aslo abandoned fuel/oil tanker nearby. They said, that tank is out of fuel, but have about half of the oil.

TD fighters and foresters has been catching Russian soldiers, scattered across a forests near Gadyach, Poltava oblast. Russians say thet thought theses guys are "Azov".

Raid TD group on the road engaged lonely Russian vehicle

 

 

[Lethaface]

11 minutes ago, kraze said:

Part of russian modus operandi is to lie (remember those teary-eyed POWs that said "we thought we came to do a training exercise" and then docs were found where everybody consented to take part in an aggressive war abroad?) - another thing to remember is that only a minute before he was taken POW - he was still coming to kill us and had no reservations about it.

Can I say that he feels sorry only because he got caught?

For comparison - Belarus hasn't sent in the troops yet (not in any major way at least) because troops there are rioting and a few military trains got derailed by some "caring citizens" - delaying that attack, hopefully indefinitely.

But this guy, having a choice, signed an agreement to come and kill us. He had a choice, they all do.

 

And, once again, I'm all for showing a good treatment of POWs, because hearts and minds stuff does work to some degree.

Excluding artillery guys and CAS pilots naturally. Those are bound to suffer critical ammo cookoffs and repeated blunt traumas from trees they eject into respectively. I hope you understand why.

If someone meet a person standing behind MLRS which has just bombarded his home, dont directly think of Geneva conventions that's logical. 
Any downed pilot can die from 'gunfight', if he manages to survive the crash. Or he might die 'from crash' in papers while it was a 'gunfight'. Captured pilots (or artillery crew) is best for everyone though, imo.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Lethaface

[kraze]

Just now, Lethaface said:

If someone meet a person standing behind MLRS which has just bombarded his home, dont directly think of Geneva conventions that's logical. 
Any downed pilot can die from 'gunfight', if he manages to survive the crash. Or he might die 'from crash' in papers while it was a gunfight. Captured pilots is best for everyone though, imo.

Another Su-25 pilot was taken alive today.

But no upcoming teary-eyed statement of his on camera will make me ever understand how, knowing that those targets are just civilian buildings with absolutely defenseless people, often hospitals, one can pull a trigger and feel OK about the multiple murders and shrapnel traumas/decapitations that follow.

I just don't get it. One has to be absolutely devoid of humanity.

[sburke]

9 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

If someone meet a person standing behind MLRS which has just bombarded his home, dont directly think of Geneva conventions that's logical. 
Any downed pilot can die from 'gunfight', if he manages to survive the crash. Or he might die 'from crash' in papers while it was a gunfight. Captured pilots is best for everyone though, imo.

Vietnam being the classic example where the NVA considered them high value prisoners and frequently had to rescue them from the locals.  Their propaganda value was extremely high.

Regarding the interview kraze, part of the difference with Belarus is those guys have had a week of news to KNOW what is going on.  If Russians were all so bloodthirsty, why would Putin feel the need to censor the media?  He is clearly afraid of something there and according to you it isn't that the Russians would turn on him.  Not very logical thinking.

I believe these guys.  The performance of the Russian army can only be explained by the fact that they really didn't have much of a plan.  Putin apparently felt they didn't really need one cause it was gonna be a walkover.  Just drive into Kiev...

 

On the other hand yeah  I agree, at some point when you KNOW what you are doing, you have to show a conscience.  The Russians have had enough time now to know they have been lied to and are accountable for the continued assaults on civilians.

Edited March 4, 2022 by sburke

[Lethaface]

8 minutes ago, kraze said:

Another Su-25 pilot was taken alive today.

But no upcoming teary-eyed statement of his on camera will make me ever understand how, knowing that those targets are just civilian buildings with absolutely defenseless people, often hospitals, one can pull a trigger and feel OK about the multiple murders and shrapnel traumas/decapitations that follow.

I just don't get it. One has to be absolutely devoid of humanity.

I don't 'get' bombing civilians either. 

But never give the enemy the victory of lowering yourself to their level (or beyond).

Edited March 4, 2022 by Lethaface

[Vet 0369]

3 hours ago, c3k said:

I'm really liking the idea of "green men" entering western Ukraine and "capturing" Patriot missile batteries and using them against Russian aviation. And maybe even "green men" using "captured" F35s and F22s to further sweep the skies.

Turnabout is fair play...

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately depending on your point of view, in order for the U.S. and NATO to “hold the moral high ground,” they can’t do that. Perhaps you have noticed the absence of Russian cyber warfare dispite their claims they would “destroy” western economy with cyber warfare. Perhaps NATO stating that cyber attacks on any member would invoke “Article V” or something like that has something to do with it. What it looks like to me, is that SOMEONE in the Kremlin is still conscious and thinking.

[Haiduk]

Chechen fighter of Free Ichkeria with NLAW. Two detachments of Chechen fighters (batalion named after Jokhar Dudayev and battalion named after Sheikh Mansur - but really theese battalions have less a company each) already fight near Kyiv against Chechens of Kadyrov. Blood feud...

Edited March 4, 2022 by Haiduk

[kraze]

7 minutes ago, sburke said:

Vietnam being the classic example where the NVA considered them high value prisoners and frequently had to rescue them from the locals.  Their propaganda value was extremely high.

Regarding the interview kraze, part of the difference with Belarus is those guys have had a week of news to KNOW what is going on.  If Russians were all so bloodthirsty, why would Putin feel the need to censor the media?  He is clearly afraid of something there and according to you it isn't that the Russians would turn on him.  Not very logical thinking.

I believe these guys.  The performance of the Russian army can only be explained by the fact that they really didn't have much of a plan.  Putin apparently felt they didn't really need one cause it was gonna be a walkover.  Just drive into Kiev...

 

On the other hand yeah  I agree, at some point when you KNOW what you are doing, you have to show a conscience.  The Russians have had enough time now to know they have been lied to and are accountable for the continued assaults on civilians.

He is censoring the media because in his nest of vultures he's afraid of looking weak.

And if people see that their dictator is weak - some opportunists may get an idea.

African tribal warlord system being an extreme example of this but it's easier to demonstrate.

Warlords aren't getting dethroned because people suddenly realize what they are and say "no" to violence - warlords are getting dethroned by a more ruthless, opportunist runner up that just wants his place.

Russia is, of course, a lot more "civilized" compared but you get my point. The moment Stalin showed weakness - he was immediately poisoned, his buddies killed and everybody found themselves on a brink of an all out nuclear war for the next 40 years because Khrushchev took the throne from him.

 

[panzermartin]

11 minutes ago, sburke said:

  The performance of the Russian army can only be explained by the fact that they really didn't have much of a plan.  Putin apparently felt they didn't really need one cause it was gonna be a walkover.  Just drive into Kiev... 

 

 

From what I have read, they actually had a plan. Over a year in planning as some officials have revealed. Zelensky himself admitted they were saboteurs, agents renting apartments in Kiev etc months prior to invasion. Apart from the first blitzkrieg wave that didn't succeed they had a backup plan now unfolding. They have a major morale issue  and I suspect officers were divided over actually invading, some even leaked info to the Ukrainians is said. Probably this explains poor execution and the desertion of that scale. 

[Seedorf81]

20 minutes ago, kraze said:

He is censoring the media because in his nest of vultures he's afraid of looking weak.

And if people see that their dictator is weak - some opportunists may get an idea.

African tribal warlord system being an extreme example of this but it's easier to demonstrate.

Warlords aren't getting dethroned because people suddenly realize what they are and say "no" to violence - warlords are getting dethroned by a more ruthless, opportunist runner up that just wants his place.

Russia is, of course, a lot more "civilized" compared but you get my point. The moment Stalin showed weakness - he was immediately poisoned, his buddies killed and everybody found themselves on a brink of an all out nuclear war for the next 40 years because Khrushchev took the throne from him.

 

Well, nice to see that your not spiteful anymore..

Wow, man, chill a tiny bit, please.

[sburke]

12 minutes ago, panzermartin said:

From what I have read, they actually had a plan. Over a year in planning as some officials have revealed. Zelensky himself admitted they were saboteurs, agents renting apartments in Kiev etc months prior to invasion. Apart from the first blitzkrieg wave that didn't succeed they had a backup plan now unfolding. They have a major morale issue  and I suspect officers were divided over actually invading, some even leaked info to the Ukrainians is said. Probably this explains poor execution and the desertion of that scale. 

Note I said "much of a plan".  You have to admit as a plan it was just a bit lacking.  The backup plan doesn't sound much better.

[Seedorf81]

2 hours ago, Armorgunner said:

POW´s from Russian paramilitary Police Elite Unit SOBR, of the OMON on TV. Among them a SOBR Lieutenant Colonel!

High skilled unit, Spetznas style. But detained now  

 

Very impressive, and I understand that Ukraine is trying to get the reality of this ugly war to the Russian people in this way.

Unfortunately, this rarely, if ever, works. The US pilots being captured by the North-Vietnamese made similar statements, and we older guys surely remember the downed US-pilots in the first Iraq war, early '90s, who had to appear in front of Saddam Hussein's camera's.

How truthful the guys in the video may be, the Russians will believe that they were cohersed in saying what the Ukrainians told them to.

The only result is that these guys will be considered traitors..

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Seedorf81

[chris talpas]

6 minutes ago, Seedorf81 said:

Well, nice to see that your not spiteful anymore..

Wow, man, chill a tiny bit, please.

I'm not sure how 'chilled' I would be if I were in Ukraine now rather than in safety in the west.