Bemused Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Playing a scenario with three Khrizantemas and all three have been knocked out. Two went while stationary, spotted by tanks that moved into their line of sight but were never spotted by the Russians. The third I hunted forward to target an Abrams in a hull down position (the Russian). It took 2s for the Abrams to spot the Khrizantema (which never spotted the Abrams) at its 9 o'clock and destroy it. Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Compared to US equipment, all russian stuff are blind so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 50 minutes ago, Bemused said: Playing a scenario with three Khrizantemas and all three have been knocked out. Two went while stationary, spotted by tanks that moved into their line of sight but were never spotted by the Russians. The third I hunted forward to target an Abrams in a hull down position (the Russian). It took 2s for the Abrams to spot the Khrizantema (which never spotted the Abrams) at its 9 o'clock and destroy it. Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind? Khrizantema or Shturm-S, both are AT-reserve of brigade. According to tactic, they intended to use from long ranges and from ambushes as a shield on tank-hazard directions. Concerning the game, there was known problem of poor spotting of Khrizantema. As well as capability of US troops to spot immediately Russians and Russians to spot almost immediately Ukrainians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Bemused said: Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind? Yes, they are. It's a real shame that they have such bias in the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 6 hours ago, dbsapp said: Yes, they are. It's a real shame that they have such bias in the game. No wonder, if you check the last pages of the manual, you will see that it's a single culture game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, Bufo said: No wonder, if you check the last pages of the manual, you will see that it's a single culture game. I try to love this game but it doesn't seem to be mutual feeling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Bringing the Khrizantema to a knife fight is a recipe for disaster. Haiduk already explained its intended use. However, dont' forget that this missile tank destroyer has a radar sight that works in game. So, pairing a Khrizantema with e.g. a BMP-3 providing IR-blocking smokescreens will allow you to engage US armour at long range without risking being targeted by them (as long as the smoke doen't disperse). And, when it doesn't risk being fired upon, a Khrizantema can be very deadly, considering that it has enough penetration to frontally defeat an M1A2 and salvo fire to overcome APS defences. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Amedeo said: Bringing the Khrizantema to a knife fight is a recipe for disaster. Haiduk already explained its intended use. However, dont' forget that this missile tank destroyer has a radar sight that works in game. So, pairing a Khrizantema with e.g. a BMP-3 providing IR-blocking smokescreens will allow you to engage US armour at long range without risking being targeted by them (as long as the smoke doen't disperse). And, when it doesn't risk being fired upon, a Khrizantema can be very deadly, considering that it has enough penetration to frontally defeat an M1A2 and salvo fire to overcome APS defences. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Well, of course it works only if you are in the defensive and fire from keyholed positions. Smoke can only help you to use these tank-destroyers in their intended role, it won't allow you to use them effectively in the offensive or at short range. In the first situation the original poster described, a smokescreen could have saved its TDs and allowed him to fire back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, Amedeo said: Well, of course it works only if you are in the defensive and fire from keyholed positions. Smoke can only help you to use these tank-destroyers in their intended role, it won't allow you to use them effectively in the offensive or at short range. In the first situation the original poster described, a smokescreen could have saved its TDs and allowed him to fire back. Well, every tool is good in the right conditions, so it's quite reasonable to employ Khrizantema from the cover and from the distance in defensive position. The thing is it's optics and it's reaction time for whatever reason are so bad that even in those circumstances - which are pretty rare by game's standards - Khrizantema is almost useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amedeo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, dbsapp said: Well, every tool is good in the right conditions, so it's quite reasonable to employ Khrizantema from the cover and from the distance in defensive position. The thing is it's optics and it's reaction time for whatever reason are so bad that even in those circumstances - which are pretty rare by game's standards - Khrizantema is almost useless. Well, I don't dispute this. My only point is that, if one wants to but Khrizantema TDs in a QB, it would be pointless not to provide them with IR-blocking smoke cover, considering the only advantage its sensor have that is is the game is the capability to acquire target and shoot them through every type of smoke (real kife Khrizantema has also other peculiarities, i.e. mast mounted sensors and multplte targeting capabilities that, for reasons due to the game engine, are not represented in CMBS). Anyway, the Khrizantema-smoke ruse is old story, not a game-winning strategy but it seems I'm not the only one (see link below) that found it viable to enhance the poor game performance of that TD - then, that that increase in performance is enough to warrant buying them in QBs is another story, but, again, I'm not suggesting buying them, I'm only saying: if you buy them, then buy also smoke covering AFVs). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bemused Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 Wish I had thought of that at the start of the scenario Amedeo - nice strategy. I'm finding that generally Russian vehicles in stationary positions facing oncoming US vehicles come off worse and rarely spot first, and this over the crest of a ridge only about 100m away. I'm going to try opening up the tanks - they should be able to eyeball the movement right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 12 hours ago, Amedeo said: Well, I don't dispute this. My only point is that, if one wants to but Khrizantema TDs in a QB, it would be pointless not to provide them with IR-blocking smoke cover, considering the only advantage its sensor have that is is the game is the capability to acquire target and shoot them through every type of smoke (real kife Khrizantema has also other peculiarities, i.e. mast mounted sensors and multplte targeting capabilities that, for reasons due to the game engine, are not represented in CMBS). Anyway, the Khrizantema-smoke ruse is old story, not a game-winning strategy but it seems I'm not the only one (see link below) that found it viable to enhance the poor game performance of that TD - then, that that increase in performance is enough to warrant buying them in QBs is another story, but, again, I'm not suggesting buying them, I'm only saying: if you buy them, then buy also smoke covering AFVs). It's a good tip, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 If used well in the proper situation they can be very deadly. Imo that is as a long range support unit, ideally positioned on the flank. Make sure they have c2 and tentative contact of what you want to destroy, than shoot and scoot through thermal smoke. Keep them in cover when not firing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing 88's Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 On 8/19/2021 at 8:06 AM, dbsapp said: I despise that "man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 On 9/21/2021 at 8:49 AM, Blazing 88's said: I despise that "man". You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing 88's Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, LukeFF said: You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that? Sorry, I didn't realize you can't bump a topic. I saw the image and just had... that URGE! Sorry if I touched a nerve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 I object to calling that thing a 'man', myself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSA Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 6 hours ago, LukeFF said: You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that? It's a syndrome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) I would call him Mr. President. He had his faults, but in retrospect was a much better POTUS than the current occupant who is turning out to be a senile wimp. p.s. - there is a reason why political comments are not allowed. Edited September 23, 2021 by Sgt Joch 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 How exactly did we get into this nonsense, starting from here: Slightly confused! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) Somehow we drifted again completely off topic. Edited September 23, 2021 by chuckdyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 The president should be strong like the Khrizantema's atgms... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Artkin said: The president should be strong like the Khrizantema's atgms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Why Khrizantema's visibility in game is much worse than BMP-3 if Khrizantema is literally built on BMP-3 chassis and has improved vision equipment, including radar? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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