Khrizantema question

[Bemused]

Playing a scenario with three Khrizantemas and all three have been knocked out.  Two went while stationary, spotted by tanks that moved into their line of sight but were never spotted by the Russians.  The third I hunted forward to target an Abrams in a hull down position (the Russian).  It took 2s for the Abrams to spot the Khrizantema (which never spotted the Abrams) at its 9 o'clock and destroy it.  Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind?

 

[Bufo]

Compared to US equipment, all russian stuff are blind so to speak.

[Haiduk]

50 minutes ago, Bemused said:

Playing a scenario with three Khrizantemas and all three have been knocked out.  Two went while stationary, spotted by tanks that moved into their line of sight but were never spotted by the Russians.  The third I hunted forward to target an Abrams in a hull down position (the Russian).  It took 2s for the Abrams to spot the Khrizantema (which never spotted the Abrams) at its 9 o'clock and destroy it.  Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind?

 

Khrizantema or Shturm-S, both are AT-reserve of brigade. According to tactic, they intended to use from long ranges and from ambushes as a shield on tank-hazard directions. 

Concerning the game, there was known problem of poor spotting of Khrizantema. As well as capability of US troops to spot immediately Russians and Russians to spot almost immediately Ukrainians.

[dbsapp]

5 hours ago, Bemused said:

Just one scenario but I would be interested in others' experiences - are they blind?

 

Yes, they are. It's a real shame that they have such bias in the game. 

[Bufo]

6 hours ago, dbsapp said:

Yes, they are. It's a real shame that they have such bias in the game. 

No wonder, if you check the last pages of the manual, you will see that it's a single culture game.

[dbsapp]

28 minutes ago, Bufo said:

No wonder, if you check the last pages of the manual, you will see that it's a single culture game.

I try to love this game but it doesn't seem to be mutual feeling...

[Amedeo]

Bringing the Khrizantema to a knife fight is a recipe for disaster. Haiduk already explained its intended use.

However, dont' forget that this missile tank destroyer has a radar sight that works in game. So, pairing a Khrizantema with e.g. a BMP-3 providing IR-blocking smokescreens will allow you to engage US armour at long range without risking being targeted by them (as long as the smoke doen't disperse). And, when it doesn't risk being fired upon, a Khrizantema can be very deadly, considering that it has enough penetration to frontally defeat an M1A2 and salvo fire to overcome APS defences.

[dbsapp]

2 hours ago, Amedeo said:

Bringing the Khrizantema to a knife fight is a recipe for disaster. Haiduk already explained its intended use.

However, dont' forget that this missile tank destroyer has a radar sight that works in game. So, pairing a Khrizantema with e.g. a BMP-3 providing IR-blocking smokescreens will allow you to engage US armour at long range without risking being targeted by them (as long as the smoke doen't disperse). And, when it doesn't risk being fired upon, a Khrizantema can be very deadly, considering that it has enough penetration to frontally defeat an M1A2 and salvo fire to overcome APS defences.

[Amedeo]

Well, of course it works only if you are in the defensive and fire from keyholed positions. Smoke can only help you to use these tank-destroyers in their intended role, it won't allow you to use them effectively in the offensive or at short range.

In the first situation the original poster described, a smokescreen could have saved its TDs and allowed him to fire back.

[dbsapp]

19 minutes ago, Amedeo said:

Well, of course it works only if you are in the defensive and fire from keyholed positions. Smoke can only help you to use these tank-destroyers in their intended role, it won't allow you to use them effectively in the offensive or at short range.

In the first situation the original poster described, a smokescreen could have saved its TDs and allowed him to fire back.

Well, every tool is good in the right conditions, so it's quite reasonable to employ Khrizantema from the cover and from the distance in defensive position. 

The thing is it's optics and it's reaction time for whatever reason are so bad that even in those circumstances - which are pretty rare by game's standards - Khrizantema is almost useless. 

[Amedeo]

1 hour ago, dbsapp said:

Well, every tool is good in the right conditions, so it's quite reasonable to employ Khrizantema from the cover and from the distance in defensive position. 

The thing is it's optics and it's reaction time for whatever reason are so bad that even in those circumstances - which are pretty rare by game's standards - Khrizantema is almost useless. 

Well, I don't dispute this. My only point is that, if one wants to but Khrizantema TDs in a QB, it would be pointless not to provide them with IR-blocking smoke cover, considering the only advantage its sensor have that is is the game is the capability to acquire target and shoot them through every type of smoke (real kife Khrizantema has also other peculiarities, i.e. mast mounted sensors and multplte targeting capabilities that, for reasons due to the game engine, are not represented in CMBS). 

Anyway, the Khrizantema-smoke ruse is old story, not a game-winning strategy but it seems I'm not the only one (see link below) that found it viable to enhance the poor game performance of that TD - then, that that increase in performance is enough to warrant buying them in QBs is another story, but, again, I'm not suggesting buying them, I'm only saying: if you buy them, then buy also smoke covering AFVs).

 

[Bemused]

Wish I had thought of that at the start of the scenario Amedeo - nice strategy.  I'm finding that generally Russian vehicles in stationary positions facing oncoming US vehicles come off worse and rarely spot first, and this over the crest of a ridge only about 100m away.  I'm going to try opening up the tanks - they should be able to eyeball the movement right away.

[dbsapp]

12 hours ago, Amedeo said:

Well, I don't dispute this. My only point is that, if one wants to but Khrizantema TDs in a QB, it would be pointless not to provide them with IR-blocking smoke cover, considering the only advantage its sensor have that is is the game is the capability to acquire target and shoot them through every type of smoke (real kife Khrizantema has also other peculiarities, i.e. mast mounted sensors and multplte targeting capabilities that, for reasons due to the game engine, are not represented in CMBS). 

Anyway, the Khrizantema-smoke ruse is old story, not a game-winning strategy but it seems I'm not the only one (see link below) that found it viable to enhance the poor game performance of that TD - then, that that increase in performance is enough to warrant buying them in QBs is another story, but, again, I'm not suggesting buying them, I'm only saying: if you buy them, then buy also smoke covering AFVs).

 

It's a good tip, thank you.

[Lethaface]

If used well in the proper situation they can be very deadly. Imo that is as a long range support unit, ideally positioned on the flank. Make sure they have c2 and tentative contact of what you want to destroy, than shoot and scoot through thermal smoke.

Keep them in cover when not firing.

[Blazing 88's]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:06 AM, dbsapp said:

I despise that "man".

[LukeFF]

On 9/21/2021 at 8:49 AM, Blazing 88's said:

I despise that "man".

You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that?

[Blazing 88's]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that?

Sorry, I didn't realize you can't bump a topic. I saw the image and just had... that URGE! Sorry if I touched a nerve.

[MikeyD]

I object to calling that thing a 'man', myself.

[AlanSA]

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

You bumped up this topic to make a juvenile comment like that?

It's a syndrome....

[Sgt Joch]

I would call him Mr. President. He had his faults, but in retrospect was a much better POTUS than the current occupant who is turning out to be a senile wimp.

p.s. - there is a reason why political comments are not allowed.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Sgt Joch

[Sgt.Squarehead]

How exactly did we get into this nonsense, starting from here:

Slightly confused! 

 

[chuckdyke]

Somehow we drifted again completely off topic. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by chuckdyke

[Artkin]

The president should be strong like the Khrizantema's atgms... 

[Bufo]

1 hour ago, Artkin said:

The president should be strong like the Khrizantema's atgms... 

[dbsapp]

Why Khrizantema's visibility in game is much worse than BMP-3 if Khrizantema is literally built on BMP-3 chassis and has improved vision equipment, including radar?