Aured Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Hello all. I'm just getting started with this campaign in Red Thunder. I've read a lot of people saying that it's unrealistic and badly designed, but I'm going to give it my best shot. The first mission involves a rifle battalion with SPG support attacking a German trenchline in a swamp. The second is another battalion with the same organisation attacking a village. The question I want to ask is how would both of these attacks be performed in real life? I have conflicting information involving what to do: Russian battle reports are only available from 1941, and generally involve step-by-step plan executed one after the other. Other sources (JasonMC primarily) state that the infantry would rush forward in a line, go to ground when shot at and then stay there. I have no information on what kind of formation the rifle battalion would use, how they would intergrate with their SPGs and how they would attack the swamp, with it's water blocking most avenues of approach, and the village which is cut up into three different hamlets. Can anyone provide a clear, definitive answer on how a Russian rifle battalion in 1944 would attack both of these objectives? Thank you in advance for any answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornGinger Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) You can do as the Soviets would have. That means you start with plastering the enemy with the artillery's hard rain from above after which you assault the enemy with tanks and infantry. But it of course depends on what you have been given to play with in the scenario. Edited March 22, 2021 by BornGinger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Maybe this online book can help: Combat actions of the rifle battalion: Collection of combat examples from the Great Patriotic War You can use google translate to read it in English or in another language. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Aured said: I've read a lot of people saying that it's unrealistic and badly designed ...Nuts...they are nuts... all scenarios are as realistics as they are ...as proven in real life...in many cases they will provide you with much joy just for the fact that you just overcome the dificulties they are presenting... Edited March 22, 2021 by Dan Dare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 You may need this: https://history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-2/CMH_Pub_104-2.pdf The terrain is as hard as any in the CM games in the early phase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) I designed the 1st mission so I can give some tips on that one. The map is based on an actual map of the terrain and the force density involved for both sides is based on what was common in 1944 for that front. It was actually raining on the 1st day of the offensive. The area where you are attacking is less well defended than other areas. Because of the terrain, the Germans did not expect the Russians to attack there so their force is relatively small compared to the Soviet force. However, the Germans have been positioned there for a long time and have had the time to fortify their position, so expect the Germans to be well dug in and backed up by multiple support weapons. The Russians at that time use reinforced infantry groups with an infantry battalion being directly backed up by engineers to deal with any obstacles and SPGs to provide direct fire support. Your role is to use your numerical superiority to punch a hole in the German lines so that the follow on tank forces can exploit any breakthrough. The rocket artillery is supposed to represent to the tail end of the artillery barrage. Because of the time delay, it is only useful on the first turn, so use it to target where you think the German lines are. As to tactics, you can attack on a broad or narrow front, there are 3 fords as I recall. Get your men across the river, use scouts to find out where the Germans are and then blast them out of their strongpoints using infantry, MMGs, SPGs, etc. You have enough men that you can afford to take casualties. p.s. - JasonC and I did have one or two discussions about this scenario back in the day. Edited March 22, 2021 by Sgt Joch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 this is a really good campaign. We all know there were Soviet rifle divisions -- guess what they were made of? guys w small arms + mortar, arty, some armor support. and this is a very good representation of that kind of fighting, which was the majority of fighting. You can win this, and you will take casualties. Fortunately, as mentioned above, you've got more men than the germans. When I played it I expected more T34s but once I realized what I was working with this is a lot of fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornGinger Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) This is another one of those "Help me with this scenario"-thread there has been at least two or three more of in the forum lately. It seems some players of these games don't want to try to think like a commander to solve the situation they are facing. And they also seem to forget that this is a game, which means that it's possible to save and try again if something doesn't go the way they hoped. Edited March 22, 2021 by BornGinger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 10 hours ago, BornGinger said: This is another one of those "Help me with this scenario"-thread there has been at least two or three more of in the forum lately. It seems some players of these games don't want to try to think like a commander to solve the situation they are facing. And they also seem to forget that this is a game, which means that it's possible to save and try again if something doesn't go the way they hoped. He didn't ask for help. He asked how a soviet rifle battalion fought in the reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aured Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 15 hours ago, BornGinger said: This is another one of those "Help me with this scenario"-thread No this is a very specific question - "How would a Soviet Rifle Battalion in 1944 conduct an assault on a) a swamp and b) a village. I'll make sure to embolden the question so that certain individuals don't overlook it and completely misunderstand what the thread is about. 17 hours ago, Sgt Joch said: I designed the 1st mission so I can give some tips on that one. The map is based on an actual map of the terrain and the force density involved for both sides is based on what was common in 1944 for that front. It was actually raining on the 1st day of the offensive. Then I stand corrected. I believe the "this campaign is unrealistic" comments came from people who couldn't beat the level. As I have beaten both, I fail to understand how it is unrealistic, but that was what people were saying on other threads, so that is what I put. No offense intended. Also, was JasonC critical or complimentary in his messages? I only ask because, angry though he seems to be, his comments are usually in depth and interesting. Would you mind sharing some of what he said? 17 hours ago, benpark said: You may need this: https://history.army.mil/html/books/104/104-2/CMH_Pub_104-2.pdf An interesting read, although I was asking for the specifics of Soviet doctrine rather than German, as this manual demonstrates. 21 hours ago, Bufo said: Maybe this online book can help: Combat actions of the rifle battalion: Collection of combat examples from the Great Patriotic War You can use google translate to read it in English or in another language. This is the closest thing to a decent answer I've got so far, although many of these anecdotes aren't very clear. To everyone, including the people who haven't read the question properly, thank you for your answers. I'll keep monitoring the thread until someone comes along with a more definitive answer, although what I have so far has helped a little. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.X Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1) Artillery support for 1-2 hours or more - depending on ammunition stock and tactical/Strategic importance of the area. 2) Attack of a spearhead Company, destroying German outposts (if still offering resistance - in most cases Germans withdrawn from these outposts when expecting huge scale attacks). 3) Spearhead Company moving forward cautiously until fire contact with the first German Line of defense. 4) Spearhead Company using cover and trying to identify the resistance potential of the German defense postions: HMGs? AT-guns? Other heavy weapons? 5) Decision If German Positions are already weakened by artillery fire, immediate assault with spearhead Company. If German Strongepoints are identified, which cannot be stormed, call for own heavy weapons, especially SU-76 self propelled guns (or SU-122/152) and use of intensive mortar support. 6) If German heavy weapons resistance becomes weaker, immediate new try with infantry assault. Principle is to maintain pressure. 7) After Infiltration and collapse of first German Line, the same procedure starts with the next line of resistance. To be prepared for frequent counterattacks, AT-guns (45mm or 76mm) are brought forward. When the German A,B,C-Lines are broken through, call for tanks (T-34 etc.) to break through the enemies rear area. That‘s it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornGinger Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Bufo said: He didn't ask for help. His words "The question I want to ask is ... I have conflicting information involving what to do" shows that there is a bit of "help me with this scenario" going on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, BornGinger said: His words "The question I want to ask is ... I have conflicting information involving what to do" shows that there is a bit of "help me with this scenario" going on here. Okay I give you that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Wow ... you're really interested in this subject ... Soviet Infantry Battalion Attack - Combat Mission Red Thunder - Battlefront.com Community 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aured Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Combatintman said: Wow ... you're really interested in this subject ... Soviet Infantry Battalion Attack - Combat Mission Red Thunder - Battlefront.com Community Yup. Nobody save for JasonC ever provided a competent answer. I may as well give up, because no one seems to know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmoney Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Aured said: Yup. Nobody save for JasonC ever provided a competent answer. I may as well give up, because no one seems to know. Sorry from all of us princess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aured Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, zmoney said: Sorry from all of us princess 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Oh man is this a campaign based off Orsha? HAHA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Artkin said: Oh man is this a campaign based off Orsha? HAHA Orsha? What's that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Bufo said: Orsha? What's that? Bens crazy 5 map, 75+ square km combined Master Map for CMRT... its in Master maps folder. its nuts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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