Does each vehicle have different armor value in Combat Mission Black Sea?

[SFODA371]

Greeting, guys. I'm quite interested in combat mission series.

A friend of mine recommended this game and the video he sent contained the scene of armor piercing scene silmilar to that of the men of war series.

Since I enjoy military games with realistic armored warfare like Steel Beasts, I'd like to know whether each vehicle in this game has different armor value and penetration value of their own ammunition.

Thanks for having attention to my question and help me getting interested to this game.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

The detail of each vehicle and the effect of each type of ammo, the angle of penetration, spalling, and a million other factors are all coded in as precisely as unclassified information will allow.

 

You won't be disappointed.

[womble]

To expand a little, when Vergeltungswaffe talks about detail, he means each different plate is modelled for angle and composition/resistance to the specific threat that it is trying to defeat (KE, monroe effect, explosively formed projectile, laser okay, maybe not lasers, yet ). And the interior is also modelled geometrically so that a penetration damages the things that would actually get in its way given the angle of impact and any deviation caused by the act of breaching the armour.

[Kieme(ITA)]

An example:

 

In a recent video from ChrisND you could see a T-72BM3 being hit by a US AT asset.

The tank was hit in its front turret.

The shot caused one of the front turret ERA blocks to explode, neutralizing the shot, and the vehicle was still operational after that event.

You could see that the vehicle turret was missing one of its ERA sections.

Another shot, some time later, struck the T-72BM front turret in that area which was missing the ERA from the previous event, this time it managed to penetrate the armor and destroy the tank. 

You could see that the vehicle turret had a hole in its front part.

 

Not bad in my opinion as a detailed simulation of the shots, the tank, and the ERA armor.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[A co]

To quote Womble:  "And the interior is also modelled geometrically so that a penetration damages the things that would actually get in its way given the angle of impact and any deviation caused by the act of breaching the armour. "

If this is the case then it is new since CMRT, no?  That would be good news.

 

Anyway, to the original poster's question, all of Battlefront's games are made with maximum effort toward research, detail and realism, IMHO.

[gunnersman]

This is the first I have heard of the "Men of war" series. I watched a brief video clip of some game play. It reminds me of "Company of Heroes", which I did play. I think I can safely say Combat Mission series is absolutely nothing like "Men of war". 

 

The Combat Mission series is not your typical click fest, knock down their health bar, type game. Combat Mission is a high fidelity series. It is definitely not "world of tanks" or the "Battlefield" series or "Red Orchestra". It requires you have some idea of modern battlefield doctrine and tactics. 

 

I have played Steel Beasts as well. If you like Steel Beasts, I think you will like Combat Mission: Black Sea.

[womble]

To quote Womble:  "And the interior is also modelled geometrically so that a penetration damages the things that would actually get in its way given the angle of impact and any deviation caused by the act of breaching the armour. "

If this is the case then it is new since CMRT, no?  That would be good news.

I don't know how new it is. I do know that I had thought that behind-armour effects were generated off tables (dependent on location and angle of hit), but that recently I think it was PhilC (first second programmer) who corrected my opinion and averred that internal damage is modelled by projectile track (and my presumption is other pyrotechnic and fragmentation effects) and its intersection with components.

[ChrisND]

Not only does each vehicle in the game have different armor values, but the composition, thickness, angle, etc of armor is different, or at least separately tracked, for most polygons on the vehicle.

[SFODA371]

This is the first I have heard of the "Men of war" series. I watched a brief video clip of some game play. It reminds me of "Company of Heroes", which I did play. I think I can safely say Combat Mission series is absolutely nothing like "Men of war". 

 

The Combat Mission series is not your typical click fest, knock down their health bar, type game. Combat Mission is a high fidelity series. It is definitely not "world of tanks" or the "Battlefield" series or "Red Orchestra". It requires you have some idea of modern battlefield doctrine and tactics. 

 

I have played Steel Beasts as well. If you like Steel Beasts, I think you will like Combat Mission: Black Sea.

 

Actually  I don't like MOW, combat distance limited to 100m(seriously...why?), rambo infantries.. but MoW has a quite good vehicle kill system without health bar. Vehicles destroyed when modules like ammo box and engine is damaged. Also each gun and ammo has different armor piercing value. 

 

So I used it as a simple example.

 

Thanks for your convincing words. I set my mind to buy this game.

[noblewolf]

This game models armor worse than most games I've seen they say that the T-90 has more penetration than 750-800mm of armor... When the T-90MS has 611-700mm of pen with its sabot shells.... Hell even Combat Arms (the newest MOW) simulates Armor better, same with Armored Warfare, its a much better game and it's free, this game is not worth the 55$

[snarre]

nice trolling now . where you ewen getet thous numbers , some source ? i can say that thous games what you listed have mutch more simple calculation system than what combat mission serie have.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out then.

[gnarly]

Any guesses on the sockpuppet?

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, it is probable that nobelwolf is a sockpuppet, but we're willing to see how the next few posts go before taking action.  Well, other than issuing a warning that Post #1 being a troll comment certainly isn't getting things off to a good start.

Steve

[Psoikkeli]

 

Actually  I don't like MOW, combat distance limited to 100m(seriously...why?), rambo infantries.. but MoW has a quite good vehicle kill system without health bar. Vehicles destroyed when modules like ammo box and engine is damaged. Also each gun and ammo has different armor piercing value. 

 

So I used it as a simple example.

 

Thanks for your convincing words. I set my mind to buy this game.

I have also played Soldiers: HoWW2 and Men of War. They were guite fun especially in coop mode. Combat Mission also models different subsystems/parts for vehicles: tracks, main gun, weapon controls, engine, optics, remote weapon stations and many more can get disabled depending where the shot will hit.

[c3k]

SFODA371,

My advice is to ignore the troll's comment. 

One of the great services BFC provides is FREE game demos. Grab one that interests you and give it a go. (Some demos are not updated to the same level as actual games. As games get patched/updated, demos tend to lag.)

The learning curve for these games is pretty steep. Lots of good folks here to offer help.

[Vanir Ausf B]

This game models armor worse than most games I've seen they say that the T-90 has more penetration than 750-800mm of armor... When the T-90MS has 611-700mm of pen with its sabot shells.... Hell even Combat Arms (the newest MOW) simulates Armor better, same with Armored Warfare, its a much better game and it's free, this game is not worth the 55$

Not sure who "they" are. The in-game penetration numbers are unknown to anyone outside of BFC. Any public statement from anyone else is speculative. Having said that, 750-800mm is not a crazy number for 3BM-60 Svinets 2 at range 0 and against 60° RHAe. At 2000m and 0° would be a different story.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Vanir Ausf B

[simon21]

You guys should do a video on making a tank from scratch and testing it.

I know this sounds silly, but players often forget how much combat mission has going on under the hood.  Most of your competitors are just using pretty simple dice rolls mechanics.  Show off the mechanics.    

[snarre]

its comppany secret  we had to tjust trust them on this cases.

[LukeFF]

You guys should do a video on making a tank from scratch and testing it.

I know this sounds silly, but players often forget how much combat mission has going on under the hood.  Most of your competitors are just using pretty simple dice rolls mechanics.  Show off the mechanics.    

Why, so they can take away from their limited time and resources from more pressing matters?

[Currahee150]

Yeah, but it would be cool...and not a total waste of time.

[simon21]

Why, so they can take away from their limited time and resources from more pressing matters?

It's not really a waste to show off how the game works.  Most of us are interested.  It gives a deeper connection.  There are people playing this game who undoubtedly don't know really what is going on under the hood.  I've a moderate idea, and I'd really love to learn more.  I got into CM and spent about 100$ because I saw the armchair general videos.  I've also got other people into it.  There is a lot of great stuff going on under the hood of CM that should be shown off.  The ARMA folks sure don't seem to mind showing off how their game works.  

If someone is building tank all they need to do is take a few screenshots.           

Just watch this video and tell me you didn't enjoy it.  Tell me you don't want to see this in CM.

[Jotte]

I'd wager the chances of Charles doing one of those vid's is about as "great" as you spotting Bigfoot.....

[snarre]

like i sayed earlier , this thing are secret and BF know only thous. There are not any other silmilar games for this , sou its industry secret. If Bf put this gind things out , there gona be soon other game makers copying them.

[simon21]

There is nothing BF are doing that is top secret.  They may be doing some things that are a little different from the RTS norm, but there is nothing going on in CM that is particularly profound.  Other games and developers have similar methods to accomplish similar goals and there are a lot of great programmers out there.  Look at stuff like Men of War, XCOM, Starcraft II, WoT, and Homeworld.  A lot what is being done is very similar and in some ways better optimized for certain goals.  This doesn't mean that I don't enjoy looking at BF's particular take on the genera.  I like everything.

Looking at the ARMA community though you see a lot more modding getting done.  I'd love to try my hand at modding beyond just maps.

 

   

Edited January 22, 2016 by simon21