snarre Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 yes there is mutch biger engine under hood, i think some forum veteran can explain this to you mutch beter whit good english. Any of thous games what you listed are not ewen near of combat mission serie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Just watch this video and tell me you didn't enjoy it. Tell me you don't want to see this in CM.I watched it, but I still maintain it would be an unnecessary distraction for the team. Not to mention, WoT has a fair bit more resources for stuff like this. I'd wager the chances of Charles doing one of those vid's is about as "great" as you spotting Bigfoot.....Exactly Edited January 22, 2016 by LukeFF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaricCo Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Nice presentation, but it's not about mathematics. It's philosophy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It's a fine idea, IMO, but Charles would cut off his hands before making a video baring all his secrets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon21 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) yes there is mutch biger engine under hood, i think some forum veteran can explain this to you mutch beter whit good english. Any of thous games what you listed are not ewen near of combat mission serie.I never said I don't like the engine or that it wasn't complex, but there is nothing that is that incredible going on under the hood. There aren't really any 'secrets' anymore. That ship sailed years ago, and for industry insiders it was never really there to start with. Most other games don't do what CM does because it's a layer of complication that reduces overall performance. Most Company of Heros players, for example, want balance and performance and not realism. This game could have an incredible modding scene with people fiddling all kinds of variables and making all kinds of crazy stuff. Instead what we have is XCOM prior to Long War. Untapped potential. Firaxis figured it out. Just watch what happens with XCOM 2. Edited January 23, 2016 by simon21 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 .This game could have an incredible modding scene with people fiddling all kinds of variables and making all kinds of crazy stuff. See, this is what *I* do not get. Why on earth would I want people making all kinds of crazy stuff? Sure some people would make some plausible Chinese army equipment or 1980's equipment. But there would also be uber T90's and uber Bradley's and fantisy rule the battlefield creations. Or perhaps just more subtle cheating like main guns that never get damaged or vehicles that cannot be immobilized. Suddenly there would be a problem with H2H play. Sure I could still play with my trusted friends but I met most of them by taking a chance on someone or entering a tournament. Those things would suddenly be harder. And all of this at the cost of time and resources that could have advanced the game.No thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotte Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 People need to start realising that CM games are programmed by 1-2 people unlike the games you make comparisons to. So its pretty much comes down to fixing and enhancing the game or producing doda's for the web. What would you really prefer having? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon21 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) See, this is what *I* do not get. Why on earth would I want people making all kinds of crazy stuff? Sure some people would make some plausible Chinese army equipment or 1980's equipment. But there would also be uber T90's and uber Bradley's and fantisy rule the battlefield creations. Or perhaps just more subtle cheating like main guns that never get damaged or vehicles that cannot be immobilized. Suddenly there would be a problem with H2H play. Sure I could still play with my trusted friends but I met most of them by taking a chance on someone or entering a tournament. Those things would suddenly be harder. And all of this at the cost of time and resources that could have advanced the game.No thanksLook at the Men of War, Dawn of War, or Company of Heros modding communities or any modding community. Your whole answer in fact is just full of you either trying to be deliberately contrary or a complete lack of knowledge of the entire hobby. There would be no custom matches without both sides agreeing to a custom match. How do think professional gaming exists ? That kind of security has been around since the inception of RTS games. Also, if I wanted to cheat in CM. I probably could, as it stands right now. The reason cheating *probably* doesn't exist in the community is just that it isn't a priority to cheat. People need to start realising that CM games are programmed by 1-2 people unlike the games you make comparisons to. So its pretty much comes down to fixing and enhancing the game or producing doda's for the web. What would you really prefer having?They are always talking about how they hire people that were part of the modding community that exists. Support it. Edited January 23, 2016 by simon21 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhedgwich Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I feel you should be warned though after combat mission you wont be able to play men of war anymore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon21 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I feel you should be warned though after combat mission you wont be able to play men of war anymoreI consider Men of War to be a failed experiment. Very bad core mechanic, but quite pretty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotte Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 They are always talking about how they hire people that were part of the modding community that exists. Support it. Those were'nt programmers. They utilised people from the community for graphics, scenarios and maps iirc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaricCo Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 φιλοσοφία (philosophia)Philosophy is the study of the general and fundamental nature of reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Your whole answer in fact is just full of you either trying to be deliberately contrary or a complete lack of knowledge of the entire hobby. Or I don't find that way of playing interesting in the slightest and don't want to see effort put into opening up the game for modding with all the associated documentation, work on the code and the then needed work to verify that two opponents have compatible mods of the same version etc.None of those other games hold even the slightest interest for me, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antaress73 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Programming CMBS must be extremely complex and time consuming. Research must be time consuming also. The "core" team is very small indeed. It can't be otherwise since it is a niche product. Compared to other games the sales must be very small and those guys can't spread the butter too much if they want to work on it full time and still make a decent living. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhedgwich Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I loved men of war until i played CM then it just seemed like a game for kids 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I play Men of War and Combat Mission, there is nothing wrong with not playing one or the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagler Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Or I don't find that way of playing interesting in the slightest and don't want to see effort put into opening up the game for modding with all the associated documentation, work on the code and the then needed work to verify that two opponents have compatible mods of the same version etc.None of those other games hold even the slightest interest for me, sorry.You have a blinkered view of modding. The reason for a lack of more indepth modding tools and access to code and configuration is simple, it would put battlefront out of business.People would just crack out mods left right and centre about various conflicts, adding new units, theatres, etc and whatever which would probably cover a lot of bases and planned products in the battlefront business plan, but for free distribution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) You have a blinkered view of modding. The reason for a lack of more indepth modding tools and access to code and configuration is simple, it would put battlefront out of business.People would just crack out mods left right and centre about various conflicts, adding new units, theatres, etc and whatever which would probably cover a lot of bases and planned products in the battlefront business plan, but for free distribution. Same can be said about ArmA (and its, now purely weapon-centric) DLCs. But it doesn't hurt them, quite the contrary. Its Battlefront's business model stuck in 20th century, as well as a very conservative game design (though CMSF had a branching campaign), that is the root of the issue and the reason why mods can be such a quality jump. Interface for one didn't change in 9 years. Edited January 24, 2016 by kraze 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 You have a blinkered view of modding. The reason for a lack of more indepth modding tools and access to code and configuration is simple, it would put battlefront out of business.People would just crack out mods left right and centre about various conflicts, adding new units, theatres, etc and whatever which would probably cover a lot of bases and planned products in the battlefront business plan, but for free distribution. Good luck programming the interaction of a new 3d model wtih everything else in game, from the UI to other models, to the terrain, the projectiles etc....The programmed part of this game is much more complex than what a modder could do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Good luck programming the interaction of a new 3d model wtih everything else in game, from the UI to other models, to the terrain, the projectiles etc....The programmed part of this game is much more complex than what a modder could do. Hence my comment about how much work there would be for BFC to do to open things up that way. I suspect that comment you quoted was directed at me but am not sure because I don't read the insulting posts of that forum member any more. I am pleased that those of you that play arma 3 and those other games mentioned are happy with them. I do not have blinders on I simply see no joy in those games and I think it is at least in part because the modding has fractured the community and caused a stagnation in the main game.A few months ago i actually spent an afternoon lookibg at arma 3 and what i found was a confusing collections of forums and multiple commercian sites. I could not tell what i would get for my $ nor what i should by to get the experience that was suggested by a poster here, sorry i forget who. It was a drag, honestly. I know BFC's web site is a bit old fasioned and hard to navigate but at least i can tell what is on offer and how much it costs to have a game that i can play. The hardest part here is figuring out how to buy more in the right combination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 I would sure prefer BFC to keep making games and new CM versions rather than spending time creating "kits" for modders that would require a lot of work and would surely be restricted to very few modders (the higher the difficulty the less the modders available, unless you have a multimilionare franchise to use). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Those are my thoughts as well. Others are free to disagree and lobby BFC to go that way. I just hope they don't and so far no one has put forward a compelling argument for how it will increase business for BFC.BTW ad hominem attacks like "you have blinders" does not forward the discussion about how spending BFC's resources supporting modders makes them more money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 The reason for a lack of more indepth modding tools and access to code and configuration is simple, it would put battlefront out of business.People would just crack out mods left right and centre about various conflicts, adding new units, theatres, etc and whatever which would probably cover a lot of bases and planned products in the battlefront business plan, but for free distribution.But would these new unit/theatre/etc. mods have the same fidelity as the current BFC products ?How would you even know ? You'd have to be a modder yourself AND have access to all the armour/penetration info just to check if something was off or not. Sorry, but IMO, that way madness lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon21 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Those are my thoughts as well. Others are free to disagree and lobby BFC to go that way. I just hope they don't and so far no one has put forward a compelling argument for how it will increase business for BFC.BTW ad hominem attacks like "you have blinders" does not forward the discussion about how spending BFC's resources supporting modders makes them more money. Only reason accused you of being deliberately contrary is that stuff like UI tweaks, sound mods, flame mods, tank stickers, and other things already seem to exist and seem quite popular, and your opposition is based on this idea that you could somehow end up being screwed by a group of mod cheaters. It's not exactly credible. Just take a look at some of the modding communities out there and see what they've done. Also learning to mod ARMA III takes effort. The same kind of effort it takes to learn how to play CM. Watch some youtube videos. Try steam workshop. It helps. But would these new unit/theatre/etc. mods have the same fidelity as the current BFC products ?How would you even know ? You'd have to be a modder yourself AND have access to all the armour/penetration info just to check if something was off or not. Sorry, but IMO, that way madness lies.The mods would probably be inferior to the base game, but I'd love to see some space marines -- jk. I think modding would also improve the base game and bring in new fans. People would be able to test stuff faster at home and offer better feedback. Not everyone would mod, but it would be very popular. The programmed part of this game is much more complex than what a modder could do. I doubt it's as hard as you think. The tools and learning curve are not as bad as people think. There is some really clever stuff in the code, but adding tanks and such isn't that incredible. The tools are out there. I wouldn't suggest mod makers get into the source or unit AI too much. Edited January 27, 2016 by simon21 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Seems we are discussing different games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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