John Kettler Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Bil, Na levo! In the liver! I love to see a plan come together, as yours surely did, but I noticed your tanks were shooting pretty accurately while on the move. Is this really firing on the move, or are we still looking at a representation of firing from the short halt, but it's not depicted in the visuals? Am not sure where we are on this, since you're running on CM 3.0 and my frame of reference is CM 2.12. Also, were the shots well short of the woods intentional? Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 John, they were definitely firing on the move as they closed on Gelb. Those short rounds were actually aimed at the objective and were wild misses. This tank area fire was a historical tactic. Accuracy was not important, only suppression of anything on the objective was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Very odd. The hit text says penetration through the glacis place. I'm reasonably sure that neither 85mm APBC or APCR should be able to penetrate the Panther glacis plate unless the T-34 is at a significantly higher elevation. The result was inevitable... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimoS. Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Hello Bill, in your nice Deep Strike Video we can see Infantry shooting from Tanks. I read some reports from a German Soldier wich Name was "Heinz Rehfeldt" on a Division called "Großdeutschland" wich was a Motorized Division where he was on the Mortar Teams and there he mentioned that the Riding Infantry of an "Hanomag" Halftrack was also shooting out of that Vehicle standing on the Bench in the back of the Halftrack to react quickly when there was Ambush. Do you know if we see with tankriders/Halftrackriders for the Germans too? As it is right now for me the Halftracks (beside that MG supressing Fire and faster movement of Footsoldiers on Big Maps) are tactical not that valuable as they really was because they are very brittle. Edit: And i think that those last Turns finally sealed the Deal for you. Well played so far! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Congratulation Bil on comprehensively turning the tide and reporting with such flair. The vids are excellent as are the pics and text. I noticed watching the deep strike that tank 3 was slightly in echelon and the dust trail from tank 2 was acting as a smoke screen. Intentional or not (and no doubt intentional from you?) that was very neat. Many thanks. I am certainly looking forwards to this release 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 John, they were definitely firing on the move as they closed on Gelb. Those short rounds were actually aimed at the objective and were wild misses. I wondered about that the first time I saw it. Those puffs of smoke in the middle of the field I thought might have been mortar rounds as it wasn't immediately clear from the screenshots where they were coming from. It was only when I viewed the video (nice vid, BTW) that all became clear. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Bil, Shooting on the move like that is very cool and was done historically by the Russians, though generally more intimidating than effective. Bet it was fairly good for you because you were on flattish ground, minimizing the pitching effects on the cannon. Is this ability to fire on the move a CM 3.0 feature, as opposed to some previously used order incorporating a short halt-fire sequence? TimoS., There's a piece of German war art in pen and ink showing a 251 roaring in, with MG and passengers and blazing away, plus several grenades flying toward the foe. That may sound crazy, but there's a combat report from our newly arrived GIs in North Africa. Seems DAK dropped in (a bunch of 251s, maybe other AFVs) for such a visit coming out of the sun at dusk and roaring in. Don't recall whether the attack caused any casualties, but it sure was a demonstration of who knew soldiering. One GI who saw this considered it a sort of "Welcome to the neighborhood." Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Seems DAK dropped in (a bunch of 251s, maybe other AFVs) for such a visit coming out of the sun at dusk and roaring in. You sure about that being in the evening? That would have put them coming in from the west (or perhaps more precisely the west-southwest), which would have been unusual. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Michael Emrys, What I recall of the account was quite clear; they attacked with the setting sun behind them. I understand your point, but that particular aspect of the story still stands out in my mind. I remember thinking how gutsy that move was, yet so in keeping with the flair and dash with which DAK operated. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Short halts would be nice feature. It is a nightmare to order each vehicle to "pause" for fire. Remember playing for BMP-1 company in attack... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 One boo-boo he made (I think) is he drove the Hetzer straight into the treeline then used Face. What he should have done was maneuvered, using waypoints, the Hetzer into the trees already facing you. He would have presented a smaller target and his frontal armor. But instead he gave you a nice flank shot against a larger profile with weak armor. Steve That's assuming he knew Bil had thrown that 85mm right hook to start with; the Hetzer is facing the location of the other two vehicles of the Russian platoon which suggests Elvis knew they were near Gelb's wooded bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Nope. There is no provision for assigning random hits, only literal ones. Not worth the time to create the code for it. A shame, but I understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greup Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 You sure about that being in the evening? That would have put them coming in from the west (or perhaps more precisely the west-southwest), which would have been unusual. Michael FWIW: According to Niall Barr's book "Pendulum Of War: Three Battles at El Alamein" it was a common tactic of the DAK to attack out of the setting sun in order to blind enemy AT gunners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thank you, Bil, great entertainment, as always. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What I recall of the account was quite clear; they attacked with the setting sun behind them. I understand your point, but that particular aspect of the story still stands out in my mind. I remember thinking how gutsy that move was, yet so in keeping with the flair and dash with which DAK operated. I wasn't trying to suggest that the move you described was impossible or did not happen. It is possible that the German force could in some situations have maneuvered around behind the Allied force, which would have placed them to the west. But it would have been a little unusual in Tunisia where they were more commonly attacking the US Army from the east. Attacks against Eighth Army in Tunisia were another matter as the lineup there would have been north to south with often an open flank to the west. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 FWIW: According to Niall Barr's book "Pendulum Of War: Three Battles at El Alamein" it was a common tactic of the DAK to attack out of the setting sun in order to blind enemy AT gunners. Of course. It would have been the natural thing to do there since most of the time the Axis army was disposed to the west and the Allies to the east. In Tunisia and vis-a-vis the US army, the arrangement was the reverse. The Germans attacking in the morning would have had the sun behind them. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have offered my surrender to Bil. He has accepted. I the next turn we will both hit ceasefire so that you can have a better sense of our end game condition. I wanted to post here first and thank Bil. You played a great game and took me to school. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Once again, thank you both for all your efforts, it has been a highly entertaining DAR and highlighted the new features and amazing terrain of the game perfectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thank you both! Congrats to Bil...again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirrus Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thank you both for doing this. Excellent read. This inspired me to read several other aar'as as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraloid Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What a fabulous contributions from both of you: thank you so much for your time and enery, and how sad I am I won't have this AAR to look forward to after work ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 You played a great game Bil, as always with a nice presentation. Thanks for the entertaining battle. It was fun to follow. Congrats on your win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimoS. Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thx for the Great AAR. I cant wait for Red Thunder now and Version 3.0! Also i bought my self some Books on the Eastern front and had great reads! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich505 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Bil, What a great battle. Thanks for your efforts. Always a pleasure. The vicious struggle had a very real feel to it. You both showcased the eastern front extremely well. Thanks again. Heinrich505 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thanks to both for letting us peek into CMRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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