Mein Kampf

[superwoz]

Hey BF stupid games called and they want CMFI/GL back. Are you kidding me with this ridiculous sh*t?

• My guys are in a crater (10m) from the enemy in another crater and won’t throw a frag grenade!? I want to target a FG but can’t! WTF! I could target a smoke grenade at the enemy but not frag . . . unbelievably stupid!!

We should have ability to target FGs just like SGs

• I lost a machine gunner on a hill assault, so I want the assistant gunner or anyone else to recover the weapon and keep up the assault. I don’t need anything else reclaimed yet because I’m in motion! I’m attacking all I want is the MG - But no! I have to wait for f**king buddy aid and the long collection process of all the available material. WTF?! Incredibly stupid!!

We should have ability to pick up weapons by the use of the ACQUIRE KEY. Buddy aid should be separate from weapons collection. If and when we have the time to give buddy aid then we can leave soldiers around to care for the wounded. Or what has been discussed frequently on the forum is adding medical personnel which would be the best option.

• I lose a Sten gun carrying Para or a MP40 packing Fallschirmjager and their comrades can’t reclaim the weapon!? WTF?! On the battle field that weapon would have been retrieve!! Why can’t our CM soldiers recover SMG’s?! Exceedingly stupid!!

It's the ACQUIRE KEY brains! You created it BF now let’s use it to pick up ALL weapons and material!

I’m mystified at the ludicrous oversights in this game that BF lets stand. BF does extensive research into battles, dates, landscapes, and structures to create an accurate gaming experience which we all appreciate. But in the end the game is only as good as its weakest design. These flaws (many are easy fixers) have been discussed many times on the forum with no action taken by BF. The lack of deference to ‘us’ the customer is bewildering. The forum is full of needed changes but also wonderful ideas to improve this game, yet BFs attitude is; the game is good enough so F**k off gamers . . . But please purchase our next CM game.

[Wodin]

Go away...sorry but your post is inflammatory and isn't going to stand you in good stead in this community. I suppose you weren't taught how to communicate properly in a non hostile and polite manner.

Men of War or COH is calling you.

[fatehunter]

diplomacy 101. The art of getting what you want by offending the other party as much as you can.

[General Lee Irked]

Perhaps this is not the game for you.

[Jorge MC]

Go away...sorry but your post is inflammatory and isn't going to stand you in good stead in this community. I suppose you weren't taught how to communicate properly in a non hostile and polite manner.

Men of War or COH is calling you.

...... by Wodin

__________________

diplomacy 101. The art of getting what you want by offending the other party as much as you can.

....by fatehunter

Perhaps this is not the game for you.

.... by General Lee Irked

agree all of the above .....by me

[Wodin]

Nearly every post he has made he has slagged the game off. Not sure why he doesn't find another game to play. BF has already replied to his issues in another thread but he decides so make a New Thread to say the same thing in a rude way.

[Michael Emrys]

Aside from the spoiled brat tone, his first two points actually have some merit, taken as an ideal. What he apparently doesn't get is that improvements such as he desires may not be as easy to implement as he thinks or as high on the priority list as he personally would like. To repeat what has been said hundreds of times now, BFC is a SMALL company with limited resources, and those resources have to be devoted to what will produce the greatest benefit to the customers and in return the company. BFC are not unusually stupid, which means that they are perfectly capable of working out for themselves that they can't displease their customer base and stay in business. That doesn't mean though that they can or will drop everything to rush to satisfy every least complaint by any hacked off player with a burr under his saddle over something that few others will even notice in the normal course of play. If these features have in fact been requested before, the best course now is to simply wait for them to appear in the game in due time. Meanwhile, suck it up and enjoy the game as it now exists or go find another game that you will enjoy more.

Michael

[GJR144]

The tone is harsh, the complaints have substance.

I find it strange that so many are ignoring the substance and instead concentrate on the tone only.

Didn't know that so many girls are playing CM.

Superwoz,

if you do not want to upset the girls here, you first have to tell em, how beautyful CM is and then you must choose the words very carefully otherwise it is not good for their mood.

[Michael Emrys]

Superwoz,

if you do not want to upset the girls here, you first have to tell em, how beautyful CM is and then you must choose the words very carefully otherwise it is not good for their mood.

Come on, it costs nothing to be reasonable and polite. Besides, you misspelled 'beautiful'.

Michael

[c3k]

LOL! That was funny. Seriously. Thanks for the chuckle. You, too, GJR144.

- It seems that you want to order grenades to be thrown.

-- Can you order just your marksman to fire? No.

-- Can you order just your smg'er to fire? No.

--- You command the UNIT. The men CHOOSE what they do. Free choice, in a pixeltruppen level sort of way.

--- If you WANT grenades to be thrown, all you need to do is use the TARGET command. If your men have frag grenades, and the enemy is in range, they'll probably use 'em. Have you tried that?

--- Or is the gist of your complaint the RANGE at which frag grenades can be used?

- Taking machineguns from wounded men while ignoring their heart-rending pleas:

--- Really? This has been addressed sooo many times. You may disagree with the rationale, but spewing forth in the way in which you've chosen to do so does nothing to argue against the rationale. A tantrum does not help.

--- If you want to gain support weapons while leaving the wounded there, you're ignoring what keeps a weapon in the fight. Just grabbing a weapon doesn't do much good if you need ammo for it. Giving buddy aid to the dead only takes a few seconds. That's about right to grab a weapon and the ammo for it. And only a bit longer for the wounded; grab the weapon, slap his bandage on the wound, give (or get) a word of encouragement, then back up the hill.

- Getting sidearms from wounded/dead

--- Sure that would be nice. Please expound on why you think that should be coded. Seriously, without the histrionics. How many SMG's work when slick with blood? How about when hit by incoming fire? How many rounds/magazines do you need? Etc.

Do a search. Look at the reasons put forth by BFC for the way things are. You'll probably see things like, "We agree with you, but don't have time to code that in right now", or, "We disagree with you, and will not code that in".

It's called "reasoned discourse".

Of course, you can always just vent and then be ridiculed. Your choice.

Ken

[Los]

The unfortunate choice for a subject heading adds a flavorful icing to the cake as well.

[ASL Veteran]

The unfortunate choice for a subject heading adds a flavorful icing to the cake as well.

Well you know, getting those three things that he listed into the game is his life long "Struggle". Like the original author of that book though, I think that his suggestions would not turn out as well as he hoped since they would add some layers of micromanagement that the majority of players would be annoyed by. Maybe having a command to tell your guys to throw grenades would be useful once or twice, but then how about all those times they don't throw anything because you forgot to command them to throw them? As you can see, that could get very old very quickly. It's the same with the Acquire command for looting the wounded and the dead. Do we all really want a command box to pop up with Acquire EVERY TIME any of our truppen provides first aid to EVERY wounded or dead soldier on the battlefield? Seriously .... I guess superwoz is so super that he only has one or two wounded soldiers all game. For most players I think it would get annoying and ridiculous very quickly.

[ZPB II]

The tone is harsh, the complaints have substance.

I find it strange that so many are ignoring the substance and instead concentrate on the tone only.

Didn't know that so many girls are playing CM.

Superwoz,

if you do not want to upset the girls here, you first have to tell em, how beautyful CM is and then you must choose the words very carefully otherwise it is not good for their mood.

Well silly me, I always thought it was more girlish than not behaviour to engage in tantrums laced with hyperbole.

Reading between the lines regarding the responses to the OP it looks like the underlying message is "you need to calm down so we can talk" which is what a man tells a hysterical woman.

[YankeeDog]

My $.02: Someone who titles a thread "Mein Kampf" isn't looking for a reasoned discourse.

Don't feed the trolls.

[Erwin]

Not to excuse the original poster's immature, silly post. But, we need to appreciate that the vast majority of gamers are used to the real time action games in which one can do almost everything instantly. Most actions in those games do not require one to wait a realistic amount of time for an action to be complete.

AFAIK the BF series of games is the only current game system in which (generally) one gives orders to a squad or team and they (the tactical AI) decides how to implement your orders.

Our tiny hardcore niche group within the tiny wargame niche market enjoys the "realism" of what BF has developed. However, this sort of rude post is only to be expected as BF attempts to attract a larger market comprised of players who have not "grown/matured" along with the CM series over the last 13-14 years.

New (nearly all younger) players who are used to games from big budget developers who sell hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of game units aimed at the lowest common denominator audience (who primarily enjoy fantasy) come to BF games with expectations of a similar experience.

They do not forgive BF for what they perceive as amateur work because they expect something like Call of Duty or whatever...

So, while we here are aghast at that sort of reaction to the CM2 series, we should stay calm and understand why this unfortunate/rude reaction happens... and will continue to happen as yer "average" gamer from time to time discovers the CM series.

[Michael Emrys]

Well silly me, I always thought it was more girlish than not behaviour to engage in tantrums laced with hyperbole.

Not these days. Nowadays they will simply fire you.

:eek:

Michael

[GJR144]

Gents, you see, it works miracles, to remind you of not being girls.

Btw, I agree that it would increase micromanagement even more and there are several ways as workarounds. Good answers, problem solved, case closed.

[Battlefront.com]

I'll let the original post slide, but if this is going to be superwoz's standard method of communications then he's going to have to do it somewhere else. Over the top childish rants and baseless accusations, with a fairly unrestrained quantity of insults, has no place on any forum at all anywhere. I can't control what goes on elsewhere, but I can control it here.

The thing that is sad about posts like this is that they are made aggressive and uncompromising for a reason. And that is the poster has already decided, on his own, what is in the best interests of everybody else. He's also come to a definite conclusion about how his ideas, both technical and conceptual, can/should work within the technological and ergonomic constraints of the game. And of course he's already decided, without question, that he knows how such requests fit into the bigger development picture.

Because of this he's not interested in discussion or disagreement from anybody, least of all the people who actually make the games. Which means there really is no value in the post itself even if there is some elements worth discussing because the poster isn't interested in discussion. Since this is a discussion forum there's really no point to having posts from someone who has such a low opinion of discussion.

Steve

[Nidan1]

What I think is missing at times from these arguments about picking up weapons, is the recognition of what the game is simulating...... A real world battlefield, where bullets and metal fragments are flying about waiting to shred human flesh.

What is not going to happen (in real life) is some Tommy or GI or Panzergrenadier saying, "Wow that dead guy over there has a cooler weapon than me, I'm just going to expose myself to enemy fire, jog over there and take his cooler weapon, and the ammo as well if its different from mine. Then I'm just going to toss my uncool weapon away and go about my business of killing the enemy.

[Kenzie]

The request in the OP doesn't even make any sense to me. He wants to be able to hit the 'acquire' key and then what? The weapons from the dead or wounded will be magically and instantly transferred to living squad members? The buddy aid thing is a decent way to simulate the time it would take to grab the weapon and dig ammo out of pockets and satchels. The body could have been turned into a pile of hamburger meat so it could take a while. It's not perfect but it's fine to me at least.

While we are wishing for things that will never happen, I wish we could have our pixel men drag their wounded to safety, and then do the buddy aid thing later in a safe spot. That would be so cool to me, to have a man run out into enemy fire risking his life to drag the wounded to safety. This seems like it would be ridiculously hard to implement correctly though and I realize that it will never happen.

[Ales Dvorak]

.....yet BFs attitude is; the game is good enough so F**k off gamers . . .

Not true ....

[Erwin]

The point I was trying to make is that we regularly get these sorts of posts/threads by ignoramuses. By now we should be able to simply ignore em and not get our knickers in a twist and create a whole thread about it. It happens regularly, and it will happen again. Must we always react the same way like Pavlov's dogs...?

[Los]

>>>What is not going to happen (in real life) is some Tommy or GI or Panzergrenadier saying, "Wow that dead guy over there has a cooler weapon than me, I'm just going to expose myself to enemy fire...<<<

Exactly, let alone the more mundane reason is that that soldier is signed for that weapon, its serial number is entered into his paybook, he is accountable for retaining that weapon even in combat, unless it breaks, stuff that has no bearing or relation to gaming of course but means the all the difference in the world to getting in potential big trouble. Then there's the issue of your role in the squad, you dump your k98 for the MP40 then ten minutes later your supposed to be laying down suppressive fire at a target 200 meters away. What do you tell your SL/PL then? They know what weapons your carrying and who has what for a reason, so they can make sound tactical decisions.

EXC, the squad machine-gun must always be manned...

Los

[Kenzie]

The one issue that I have is that sometimes it's very hard to get your guys to retrieve a squad MG when there is even sporadic enemy fire zipping around, because the "medic" guy will keep ducking down and then he has to start the buddy aid process all over again. This happened to me last night. I was trying to get a squad to retrieve a fallen Bren, but sporadic enemy MG fire not even directed at that squad kept preventing them from getting it. Retrieving MGs is especially important in campaigns because I don't want them to go over to the next mission without their primary weapon.

[Chek]

The one issue that I have is that sometimes it's very hard to get your guys to retrieve a squad MG when there is even sporadic enemy fire zipping around, because the "medic" guy will keep ducking down and then he has to start the buddy aid process all over again. This happened to me last night. I was trying to get a squad to retrieve a fallen Bren, but sporadic enemy MG fire not even directed at that squad kept preventing them from getting it. Retrieving MGs is especially important in campaigns because I don't want them to go over to the next mission without their primary weapon.

I think that keeping your head firmly attached to your shoulders takes precedence though. Bullets buzzing about you even if sporadic would be enough incentive to keep your head buried in the mud. If you want to retrieve equipment from fallen comrades you will need to suppress enemy fire first, unless of course you have over extended yourself, then you will need to fall back to where your fire base can support you.

Well at least that's the game I'm playing