CMX2 eternal curse?

[MikeyD]

The web is your friend. I mean really. I recall Goggle Earth was just starting to make its presence felt back around the CMSF British module. It was like a sea change. Go to that module and many Brit scenarios will give you the exact latitude and longitude to precisely pinpoint the map locations. CM has never been the same since.

[GreenAsJade]

Sounds good for scenario design. Not for "Quick Battles".

GaJ

[sburke]

Sounds good for scenario design. Not for "Quick Battles".

GaJ

Correction - sounds good for map design.

You can apply that for Scenario or QB maps. Scenario design is a whole other headache.

[GreenAsJade]

By definition, I don't want to apply it to QB maps, because then they aren't Q, they are laborious...

GaJ

[tdogg]

I still think a auto random map generator is badly needed for the CMx2 engine.

It would add so much to the game, think of the possibilities if you could generate a series of linked random maps that could be connected in the editor to make a campaign.

The random map would also have to have check boxes to help guide the selection for a randomly generated AI plan to fight against.

[Blazing 88's]

I still think a auto random map generator is badly needed for the CMx2 engine.

It would add so much to the game, think of the possibilities if you could generate a series of linked random maps that could be connected in the editor to make a campaign.

The random map would also have to have check boxes to help guide the selection for a randomly generated AI plan to fight against.

Agree and I like your idea in your previous post about tweaking the random generated map in the editor after the "randomness."

[sburke]

Honestly after some of the complaints about the QB maps I seriously doubt this is ever going to see the light of day. It would be nice if a random generator could create something useful, but if a human creating them can get criticized the odds a computer generated random one would be acceptable is pretty slim.

[George MC]

Random generated maps in CMX1 were generally ****e. I prefer user made maps myself.

[MikeyD]

You want more maps? Grab one of the 400 standing QB maps, rename it, spend five minutes reshuffling building locations and moving a few trees about. Snap draw a couple additional lines of roads or fences. Hit 'save'. There, another QB map with AI instructions in place! Really, give it a try. 5 minutes in the editor and hit 'save'.

[sburke]

You want more maps? Grab one of the 400 standing QB maps, rename it, spend five minutes reshuffling building locations and moving a few trees about. Snap draw a couple additional lines of roads or fences. Hit 'save'. There, another QB map with AI instructions in place! Really, give it a try. 5 minutes in the editor and hit 'save'.

Just make sure you rename it, otherwise you still have the same amount of maps

[tdogg]

Of course nothing is better than hand made maps with AI plans drawn up by humans. It's very time consuming for those building them.

Having a random map generator with generated AI plans makes for more options and thus appeals to more people.

Think of expanding the QB functions into a full blown random campaign generator, that could even be opened in the scenario editor and fine tuned.

[BDW]

I don't mind lack of random maps. However, it would be SO much better if CM QB interface allowed for a "quick map preview" feature when setting up a QB. Currently, I feel like it is way too painful to pick out a QB map. For me, it goes like this:

1. open up Editor

2. scroll through list of maps

3. open one

4. load 3-D preview

5. load set up zones map

6. take notes about that map, noting the map name

7. repeat the above (until I find a decent map)

so painful. I would love, love, love it if the QB interface had a "quick map preview" that presents me a list of the maps that meet my criteria, then I can quickly choose each map and see a 3-D preview - all within the QB setup area (i.e. w/o having to exit and go to the editor and take notes).

I've had opponents who aren't willing to do these steps, and just let the computer pick one, which oftentimes mean we are setting up a new game. Another request would be to allow the person who sets up a QB to preview the map prior to the first PBEM turn being saved and sent to the opponent.

Another idea would be to have CM link up to the repository, dynamically, so repository maps can be included in the game interface (with ratings summary, too, so the great maps get the attention they deserve). I think this could be easily done with a simple web database that the game could access and present to the player. Just a thought!

[Fenris]

Yeah I too am a fan of random maps. Play on them all the time in CM1. Rural settings were fine IMO. I dunno maybe I need to dig up some more but the current QBs in my setup seem to get the same maps over and over, bleh.

How about meeting half way? Generator for the terrain. Predefined, human made building clumps for farms, villages (village on road, village at crossroads), urban areas done by blocks randomly selected from a pool (a la the QB maps now) turned and placed onto the generated terrain?

To integrate the idea suggested above, a quick peek in the editor to tweak the map prior to play would be v useful.

/shrugs

Probably all too hard. Higher fidelity has it's price. Like CM1 operations and a CMC style ops layer I doubt it'll ever happen. Makes the kids cry it does. Come on battlefront, think of the children!

-F

[tdogg]

^ That's kinda what I'm thinking, if we can't get the CMC op layer for CMX2, then a more fleshed out QB interface would support players using 3rd party operational games.

Random map generator, AI plan generator, and even a campaign generator all linked together is what I'm thinking.

[Vark]

I found the random maps, in CM1, were far more realistic when you used the random features. I did like having a completely random game as it generated some classic battles, my favourites included a 20% depleted recce company fighting through a very realistic Russian village, in the fog and rain!

[Kilroy Lurking]

MikeyD: Been there, done it. Have to make sure the QB Type is not changed because of the preprogrammed AI. The true randomness of a QB map is lost, but it is better than nothing.

I made some suggestions in a previous thread regarding the desirability of being able to load Random pre made "Armies" and maps, but what continues to bother me is the fact that the game does not remember which QB maps have been used, so no matter how many maps in the QB Folder, it can, and likes to choose one that is all to familiar. I get round this now by removing the map from the QB folder (If I remember).

Battlefront produces really excellent games, but some work on the "User Playability" would now be appreciated.

David

[Fizou]

The editor might seem a bit daunting at first, but I think its very easy to work with (elevation is handled very smart). Open a map and expand it, its easy and you see what typs of terrain to use to make it all blend. Doing this you will also learn from other map makers, building up your own skills.

A random generator would be great of course, but several reasons has been raised why this is complex and not a priority.

[tdogg]

^ Your right the editor is well done, it's just time consuming.

I don't want to downplay all the work the gifted scenario designers have done, I've played many a masterpiece from the community.

Once I've played all the campaigns, I like to tinker with the editor, but it's too hard to set up a truly random campaign for myself. Would be nice if the QB was expanded to became a fully functioning random scenario / campaign generator.

[Battlefront.com]

To confirm... we have zero intentions to make a full random map generator. There's a lot more we could do for the game with the same amount of time investment and (more importantly) they wouldn't have a pretty good chance of disappointing people. CM's highly detailed, highly variable terrain is just not something that lends itself to random generation. As others have said, CMx1 maps were vastly more simple in every way and random maps were generally mediocre when they were at their best.

What we can do, over time, is add features to help enhance what we already have. One person mentioned a map preview. That's been a wish list item for a while and it's one that I'd also like to see. Another suggestion is to have random rotation and cropping of existing maps. Improved map management, such as remembering what maps have been used before and to not use it again.

Steve

[mjkerner]

What we can do, over time, is add features to help enhance what we already have. One person mentioned a map preview. That's been a wish list item for a while and it's one that I'd also like to see. Another suggestion is to have random rotation and cropping of existing maps. Improved map management, such as remembering what maps have been used before and to not use it again.

Steve

Oo, oo, this! ^^^

[Vanir Ausf B]

What we can do, over time, is add features to help enhance what we already have.

Not directly related to maps, but it would be very nice if we could adjust the QB points for both attacker and defender rather than just the attacker.

[A Canadian Cat]

Another suggestion is to have random rotation and cropping of existing maps. Improved map management, such as remembering what maps have been used before and to not use it again.

That sounds brilliant. You could do this and just tell is you implemented a random map generator. Then see how long it takes us to figure out that it is not a generator but a cropper.