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Are all open British Tank Commanders summarily executed?


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Or is it just me? I have lots of stories. How about the commander who opens his moving Cromwell IV and is shot once through the head by a single rifle shot from 100 meters away, 1 second after the hatch is opened. And no, it wasn't a sniper.

As it stands now, I cannot have a single open British tank within 250 meters of even an enemy pistol. It appears to me the most vulnerable place on the battlefield in CM:BN is a British tank. I didn’t observe this mortality in US tanks or German tanks.

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I understand the tactics and need to stay buttoned near enemy units. That being said, I am telling you that British tanks, in particular the Cromwell and Churchill seem to suffer a higher casualty rate in relation to other tanks. This has been my particular experience in the time I have had CM. Could it be bad luck, certainly, do I have any hard data, no.

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Churchill tanks are 2.5 meters high and the commander's cupola or hatches do not seem to offer much protection all around:

Churchill-III-01.jpg

I am not sure if the game simulates differently the tank commanders' exposure depending on the vehicle type or height, nonetheless I recognize unbuttoned tank commanders being much easier to kill after the last patch/module.

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IMHO its realistic. We (still!) had the same problem while I was in the army. Our tank commanders in their Leo2A4 was all riding high and having a good look around, totally ignoring our small arm/machine gun fire against them. We bitched plenty about it so after a while both the commander and loader had to wear BT system (simfire system that tells if you are shot) like the ones we had.

Commander Casualtys increased like bloody hell and loaders stopped playing with that damn loader MG :D

They learnt the leason, after one weeks exercise where they had pathetic amounts of TCs shot they learn to hunk down and not show so much of them self...

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Apparently it was part of the CW patch in an attempt to reduce a tanks spotting abilities. I have had the same experience with Brits but you may find its the same for the US and krauts now.

But wasn't the problem the ability of a tank to spot when it was buttoned? If the TC is exposed then I'd expect good spotting ability...

And while I think about it, with all these realistic ballistics and WYSIWYG whatnot, how do you "nerf" the game quite like that anyway?

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Silly question. Have we been so busy playing Commonwealth forces that an overall change to TC vulnerability has slipped in under the radar? I'm speaking as someone too busy playing Commonwealth forces, myself. I don't know the last time I sent a US tank into combat and don't know if he's become more or less vulnerable after the patch. :)

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Silly question. Have we been so busy playing Commonwealth forces that an overall change to TC vulnerability has slipped in under the radar? I'm speaking as someone too busy playing Commonwealth forces, myself. I don't know the last time I sent a US tank into combat and don't know if he's become more or less vulnerable after the patch. :)

Please BF, so somefink. Seriously, I have noted:

1. Increased mortality of open tank commanders

2. Decreased sighting ability of buttoned tanks (which I believe was intended). Seems that buttoned tanks facing or with an arc that encompasses enemy infantry in bocage for example; can spot said infantry at about 50 meters. That's if the infantry are not hidden and likely firing at said bottoned tank.

3. Increased "bullet magnet" effect of open tank commanders and accuracy of small arms fire aimed at soon to be deceased open tank commander.

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Problem I've noticed is that when some (British in this case) tank commanders are shot at they just sit there for a while and don't button up immediatly. I'm hearing MG fire rattling off the Sherman's chasis and the commander is just sitting there enjoying a spot of tea. Sure enough the second or third burst takes him out.

I don't mind higher mortality rates for tank commanders but surely even the most poorly or highly trained tank commander buttons up immediatly when he hear's a nearby rifle shot.

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I have noted:

1. Increased mortality of open tank commanders

2. Decreased sighting ability of buttoned tanks (which I believe was intended). Seems that buttoned tanks facing or with an arc that encompasses enemy infantry in bocage for example; can spot said infantry at about 50 meters. That's if the infantry are not hidden and likely firing at said bottoned tank.

3. Increased "bullet magnet" effect of open tank commanders and accuracy of small arms fire aimed at soon to be deceased open tank commander.

These actually sound to me like longstanding complaints that must've been fixed. Peope had been complaining about infantry's seeming inability to kill unbuttoned TCs and the 'super-spotting' ability of buttoned tanks against infantry.

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1. Increased mortality of open tank commanders

2. Decreased sighting ability of buttoned tanks (which I believe was intended). Seems that buttoned tanks facing or with an arc that encompasses enemy infantry in bocage for example; can spot said infantry at about 50 meters. That's if the infantry are not hidden and likely firing at said bottoned tank.

3. Increased "bullet magnet" effect of open tank commanders and accuracy of small arms fire aimed at soon to be deceased open tank commander.

These actually sound to me like longstanding complaints that must've been fixed. Peope had been complaining about infantry's seeming inability to kill unbuttoned TCs and the 'super-spotting' ability of buttoned tanks against infantry.

LOL BF cannot win can they. I think the patch changes make the game better. Now we have to be careful with tanks running around without infantry support. Which is a good thing.

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LOL BF cannot win can they.

Hehe, no game developers are ever allowed to fix the right thing - or if by some miracle they have fixed the right thing, they're never allowed to have done it right...

Mind, as far as the poor TCs go, it seems to me like they're now more vulnerable to bullets than Joe Infantry at the same distance, which... well, I guess they're 2 metres off the ground and it's obvious where they are, but by the same token they're mostly covered by a bulletproof shell of armour. *shrugs* Question for me is how abstract the computer model of the vehicle shape is, and whether that's taken into account when determining whether the TC gets it, or whether the TC is being treated as an exposed infantryman in plain sight high above the ground... no idea what the answer is, and the guy upthread talking about TCs getting shot in exercises sounds good. :)

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Mind, as far as the poor TCs go, it seems to me like they're now more vulnerable to bullets than Joe Infantry at the same distance, which... well, I guess they're 2 metres off the ground and it's obvious where they are, but by the same token they're mostly covered by a bulletproof shell of armour. *shrugs* Question for me is how abstract the computer model of the vehicle shape is, and whether that's taken into account when determining whether the TC gets it, or whether the TC is being treated as an exposed infantryman in plain sight high above the ground

Well, as you probably know, one of the great strengths of BFC is that if you create a test that shows that a TC is as exposed as an in the open infantry man they will have a look at the game. They will act if you can show - with a repeatable test - that something is wrong.

And I am pretty sure that they do model the tank's armor and the position of the crew. Remember that bug Steve described where the Tiger tank had poorer than expected visibility when it was buttoned up and it turned out to have been caused by the TC sitting in a seat that was incorrectly modeled to be out of alignment with the TC's viewing ports.

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