ASL Veteran

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

Happened across this - just showed up on the main YouTube page when I went to it.  I figured I would post it even though we've moved on from the Flak Tower stuff.  There are also a lot of videos on YouTube about Flak Towers where people go and tour them.  Apparently they were too difficult to destroy after the war and many still stand today being used as retail space.  Imagine Hitler's reaction if he knew that nightclubs and music stores would be in his Flak Towers one day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jgvkzD8d3k
 

I don't care about QB point values in the slightest, but what is baffling to me is how anyone could think that anything hand crafted would be cheaper than anything mass produced.  The element that's missing in your ... analysis ... is time.  Let's say that two different manufacturers are producing toenail clippers.  Let's assume that each version of toenail clippers uses the same amount of steel per unit.  If company A produces one toenail clipper per minute and company B produces one toenail clipper per day well then the cost of company B's toenail clipper is higher even though the objectively measurable input of steel is the same on a per unit basis.  Granted, company A would be acquiring more steel because they are producing more toenail clippers, but if the manufacturing process is efficient enough then that cost isn't going to have a significant enough impact on a per unit basis since company A is producing so many more clippers than company B.  That's pretty basic manufacturing knowledge and it comes down to efficiency.  Unionized workers only cost more if two manufacturing processes are similarly efficient.  The slave labor thing is probably a little overstated in your comments as there would still have been specialists involved. 
However slave labor is notoriously inefficient since there is a distinct lack of motivation for the 'worker' to do anything beyond the absolute minimum to stay alive and in the case of German manufacturing how many times would the same part have to be reproduced because of sabotage or inattention to detail?  A slave isn't going to be working as fast and as efficiently as he or she could in order to support the war effort.  Maybe the slaves themselves aren't being paid a 'wage', but the guards and infrastructure that is created to support your slave laborers isn't free.  You still have to feed them something and you still have to house them somewhere.  At least with unionized workers they can pay for their own transportation, living arrangements, and food out of the wages that are paid to them by the company.  With a slave the state has to pay for all the guards, housing /camps, food, and transport for moving the slaves between camps and various work sites.  You also have to power the manufacturing site and run all the machinery and if that machinery is being powered such that you are making the same part over and over again because your slave labor can't make it right the first time or is taking an extra hour to do the same thing a union guy is making well then how efficient can you be?
So no, simply measuring inputs isn't necessarily safer - at least not in the way being suggested.  Without accounting for waste then perhaps more aggregate inputs would suggest greater aggregate outputs since more materials are probably being used in the manufacturing process, but then that would be reflected in the per unit cost basis as already suggested by using the Swedish currency.  In other words, the difference in the consumption of material inputs within the manufacturing process would be reflected by the difference in the cost basis through the use of a third party currency.  Measuring material inputs would not put Germany on an equal footing with America in WW2.  It would only reinforce the discrepancy in manufacturing efficiency between the two.
Sorry for the interruption - you may all get back to your regularly scheduled QB points discussion 😉
 

I don't care about QB point values in the slightest, but what is baffling to me is how anyone could think that anything hand crafted would be cheaper than anything mass produced.  The element that's missing in your ... analysis ... is time.  Let's say that two different manufacturers are producing toenail clippers.  Let's assume that each version of toenail clippers uses the same amount of steel per unit.  If company A produces one toenail clipper per minute and company B produces one toenail clipper per day well then the cost of company B's toenail clipper is higher even though the objectively measurable input of steel is the same on a per unit basis.  Granted, company A would be acquiring more steel because they are producing more toenail clippers, but if the manufacturing process is efficient enough then that cost isn't going to have a significant enough impact on a per unit basis since company A is producing so many more clippers than company B.  That's pretty basic manufacturing knowledge and it comes down to efficiency.  Unionized workers only cost more if two manufacturing processes are similarly efficient.  The slave labor thing is probably a little overstated in your comments as there would still have been specialists involved. 
However slave labor is notoriously inefficient since there is a distinct lack of motivation for the 'worker' to do anything beyond the absolute minimum to stay alive and in the case of German manufacturing how many times would the same part have to be reproduced because of sabotage or inattention to detail?  A slave isn't going to be working as fast and as efficiently as he or she could in order to support the war effort.  Maybe the slaves themselves aren't being paid a 'wage', but the guards and infrastructure that is created to support your slave laborers isn't free.  You still have to feed them something and you still have to house them somewhere.  At least with unionized workers they can pay for their own transportation, living arrangements, and food out of the wages that are paid to them by the company.  With a slave the state has to pay for all the guards, housing /camps, food, and transport for moving the slaves between camps and various work sites.  You also have to power the manufacturing site and run all the machinery and if that machinery is being powered such that you are making the same part over and over again because your slave labor can't make it right the first time or is taking an extra hour to do the same thing a union guy is making well then how efficient can you be?
So no, simply measuring inputs isn't necessarily safer - at least not in the way being suggested.  Without accounting for waste then perhaps more aggregate inputs would suggest greater aggregate outputs since more materials are probably being used in the manufacturing process, but then that would be reflected in the per unit cost basis as already suggested by using the Swedish currency.  In other words, the difference in the consumption of material inputs within the manufacturing process would be reflected by the difference in the cost basis through the use of a third party currency.  Measuring material inputs would not put Germany on an equal footing with America in WW2.  It would only reinforce the discrepancy in manufacturing efficiency between the two.
Sorry for the interruption - you may all get back to your regularly scheduled QB points discussion 😉
 

Here is another account - wherever he is referring to shelters or bunkers he is referring the Zoo Flak Tower
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

For the curious the first quote came from 'With our Backs to Berlin' and the second quote is from "Berlin Dance of Death"

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

Here is another account - wherever he is referring to shelters or bunkers he is referring the Zoo Flak Tower
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

I decided to try and dig up my first hand accounts - here is part of one
 
 

I have read a first hand account or two of what it was like in the towers during the battle for Berlin.  From what I can tell it was utter chaos in and around them IIRC.  The towers had no windows and all the levels below the roof were filled with civilians and soldiers in various states of combat worthiness.  Wounded were all over the place mixed in with crying babies and a lack of food and water etcetera.  Just going from memory though.

It's entirely possible there were steel shutters - I'm not exactly sure since I'm going from memory of the account.  I seem to recall that the accounts would also relate that when the guns on the roof fired it would send a concussive shock down into the tower that was very uncomfortable to everyone huddled inside.

Yes. 

Yes. 

As I recall BFC stated that it was intentionally done that way as a way for the player to have more visual stimulation of something 'happening' when the tank fires or something along those lines.  Anyway, it's not an oversight but rather a deliberate thing included in the game.

Binkov Battlefields did a decent overview of this hypothetical - at least this one was much more reasonable and well thought out than any of the others I found.
 

You seem to be suggesting that BFC games are some sort of 'open beta' games or something.  That's not the case.  Bug tracking is not chaos for BFC.  Actual software that is designed for bug tracking is used by the company in order to get the appropriate information to the appropriate individuals and the beta testers are charged with providing the appropriate information through the use of that bug tracking software.  While it is appreciated when players find things in the game that may need to be addressed the gaming public has no obligations of any kind in terms of bug tracking.  Customers play the games and enjoy them if they like playing them or stomp around angrily if they don't like the games.  Players can report things or not report things as they desire.  Customers will know that a bug has been addressed when a patch gets released and the patch log is published.  Bug tracking, reporting, and fixing is the obligation of BFC to the customers who buy the game.  There is no obligation by those who play the game to track, report, and fix bugs.  If something gets reported on a public forum more than once or even not at all then it really makes no difference because the public forums are not where the bug tracking is done.  Describing BFC bug tracking as chaos is wildly misinformed.  It may be different than what some are used to, but that doesn't mean that it's chaos.
Leave the bug tracking to BFC.  Perhaps if you get invited to the Beta team some day then you can participate in all the bug tracking and reporting that you would ever want, but for now just go and play the game and enjoy yourself.  

You seem to be suggesting that BFC games are some sort of 'open beta' games or something.  That's not the case.  Bug tracking is not chaos for BFC.  Actual software that is designed for bug tracking is used by the company in order to get the appropriate information to the appropriate individuals and the beta testers are charged with providing the appropriate information through the use of that bug tracking software.  While it is appreciated when players find things in the game that may need to be addressed the gaming public has no obligations of any kind in terms of bug tracking.  Customers play the games and enjoy them if they like playing them or stomp around angrily if they don't like the games.  Players can report things or not report things as they desire.  Customers will know that a bug has been addressed when a patch gets released and the patch log is published.  Bug tracking, reporting, and fixing is the obligation of BFC to the customers who buy the game.  There is no obligation by those who play the game to track, report, and fix bugs.  If something gets reported on a public forum more than once or even not at all then it really makes no difference because the public forums are not where the bug tracking is done.  Describing BFC bug tracking as chaos is wildly misinformed.  It may be different than what some are used to, but that doesn't mean that it's chaos.
Leave the bug tracking to BFC.  Perhaps if you get invited to the Beta team some day then you can participate in all the bug tracking and reporting that you would ever want, but for now just go and play the game and enjoy yourself.  

You seem to be suggesting that BFC games are some sort of 'open beta' games or something.  That's not the case.  Bug tracking is not chaos for BFC.  Actual software that is designed for bug tracking is used by the company in order to get the appropriate information to the appropriate individuals and the beta testers are charged with providing the appropriate information through the use of that bug tracking software.  While it is appreciated when players find things in the game that may need to be addressed the gaming public has no obligations of any kind in terms of bug tracking.  Customers play the games and enjoy them if they like playing them or stomp around angrily if they don't like the games.  Players can report things or not report things as they desire.  Customers will know that a bug has been addressed when a patch gets released and the patch log is published.  Bug tracking, reporting, and fixing is the obligation of BFC to the customers who buy the game.  There is no obligation by those who play the game to track, report, and fix bugs.  If something gets reported on a public forum more than once or even not at all then it really makes no difference because the public forums are not where the bug tracking is done.  Describing BFC bug tracking as chaos is wildly misinformed.  It may be different than what some are used to, but that doesn't mean that it's chaos.
Leave the bug tracking to BFC.  Perhaps if you get invited to the Beta team some day then you can participate in all the bug tracking and reporting that you would ever want, but for now just go and play the game and enjoy yourself.  

You seem to be suggesting that BFC games are some sort of 'open beta' games or something.  That's not the case.  Bug tracking is not chaos for BFC.  Actual software that is designed for bug tracking is used by the company in order to get the appropriate information to the appropriate individuals and the beta testers are charged with providing the appropriate information through the use of that bug tracking software.  While it is appreciated when players find things in the game that may need to be addressed the gaming public has no obligations of any kind in terms of bug tracking.  Customers play the games and enjoy them if they like playing them or stomp around angrily if they don't like the games.  Players can report things or not report things as they desire.  Customers will know that a bug has been addressed when a patch gets released and the patch log is published.  Bug tracking, reporting, and fixing is the obligation of BFC to the customers who buy the game.  There is no obligation by those who play the game to track, report, and fix bugs.  If something gets reported on a public forum more than once or even not at all then it really makes no difference because the public forums are not where the bug tracking is done.  Describing BFC bug tracking as chaos is wildly misinformed.  It may be different than what some are used to, but that doesn't mean that it's chaos.
Leave the bug tracking to BFC.  Perhaps if you get invited to the Beta team some day then you can participate in all the bug tracking and reporting that you would ever want, but for now just go and play the game and enjoy yourself.  

You seem to be suggesting that BFC games are some sort of 'open beta' games or something.  That's not the case.  Bug tracking is not chaos for BFC.  Actual software that is designed for bug tracking is used by the company in order to get the appropriate information to the appropriate individuals and the beta testers are charged with providing the appropriate information through the use of that bug tracking software.  While it is appreciated when players find things in the game that may need to be addressed the gaming public has no obligations of any kind in terms of bug tracking.  Customers play the games and enjoy them if they like playing them or stomp around angrily if they don't like the games.  Players can report things or not report things as they desire.  Customers will know that a bug has been addressed when a patch gets released and the patch log is published.  Bug tracking, reporting, and fixing is the obligation of BFC to the customers who buy the game.  There is no obligation by those who play the game to track, report, and fix bugs.  If something gets reported on a public forum more than once or even not at all then it really makes no difference because the public forums are not where the bug tracking is done.  Describing BFC bug tracking as chaos is wildly misinformed.  It may be different than what some are used to, but that doesn't mean that it's chaos.
Leave the bug tracking to BFC.  Perhaps if you get invited to the Beta team some day then you can participate in all the bug tracking and reporting that you would ever want, but for now just go and play the game and enjoy yourself.