Runyan99 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I play PBEM. Is Elite working correctly? The manual says "enemy infantry icons always display the generic soldier type, regardless of function". Okay, but if I click on an enemy unit, the info box gives perfect information, like MG section HQ, or AT ammo team. It doesn't matter if the icons are generic if the info boxes are not, right? Shouldn't elite mode display "soldier" for all units in the info box instead? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 To answer your main question, yes, Elite is working correctly. It displays the soldier icon, but the unit info panel always displays the unit information. I agree that having the unit info panel displaying the correct info breaks FOW, but there's nothing broken about your game. There's another thread about that whole issue elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Malcolm Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's a pity the information displayed when clicking isn't a bit more generic. More experienced spotters might be able to get more info as might units who have been observing for longer - but knowing exactly what the enemy unit is including it's place in the hierachy seems a bit odd. If I see a unit and click on it I can for example see that it's a Company HQ. I can therefor take a stab in the dark and assume the rest of the company is nearby. A workaround might be to not click on enemy units. Sometimes however we have no choice but to click on the unit. Targetting an enemy floating icon usually snaps the fire to the target, but in some cases it doesn't and we have to click on the enemy icon to see the highlighted individuals. On a similar subject, it'd like the generic ? enemy contacts to be broken down into sound contacts and visual contacts, ideally with slightly more info - whether it's a tracked vehicle, wheeled vehicle or infantry sounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawomi Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It's like it is in CMSF... I just hope that the issue is near the top of the 'to do list' after Normandy is out now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 To me this is a complete bug. I realized this in a PBEM after I couldn't understand why my opponet was targeting my hq units?? I was saying, how does he know that is an hq unit, well I picked one of his icons and it told me what the unit was, a machine gunner in this case. I said, wait??? That's total fail, what's the point if elite if I know the unit by clicking on it?? Anyway, please FIX this bug. Very annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 To me this is a complete bug. I realized this in a PBEM after I couldn't understand why my opponet was targeting my hq units?? I was saying, how does he know that is an hq unit, well I picked one of his icons and it told me what the unit was, a machine gunner in this case. I said, wait??? That's total fail, what's the point if elite if I know the unit by clicking on it?? Anyway, please FIX this bug. Very annoying. It's not a bug, it's an incomplete feature. It's working as intended. It's definitely not desirable, but lets use the correct terminology here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 @Normal Dude OK, not technically a bug, but (to use the words of hm_stanley) can we agree that it's a FOW "total fail" ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 We can argue all day on intended functionality vs expected behavior. To me, it's a bug. Either they didn't have time to implement it correctly or they implemented it and then decided that the way it was supposed to work wasn't exactly how they wanted it to work, yada yada. Bottom line, if I were testing on this project it would be filed as a bug, marked to be fixed, priority 3, since it's not crashing anything and it's half working as desired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 @Normal Dude OK, not technically a bug, but (to use the words of hm_stanley) can we agree that it's a FOW "total fail" ? I absolutely agree that it doesn't work well at all, but I take issue with defining words that are important based on emotion attached to the issue. At any rate, it isn't a bug, and that really isn't up for discussion. They KNEW when this was implemented that it had limited functionality. This isn't an error that produced unintended results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Please point me to the manual location where it says that?? It's pretty clear in the manual, "elite adds a level of difficulty to the game where units are represented as soldier icons...." There is nothing there that even implies that, oh and by the way," it's completely circumvented by clicking on those generic icons and finding out exactly what that unit really is, we just wanted to provide a few more meaningless clicks to your game experience. " Please give me a break. I'm sure steve would agree that it's broken and it's NOT behaving the way he intended it to. Therefore it's a BUG!! So, why waste the time, play warrior level and then I don't need to click twenty more times in a game, that's a better experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Good point about the ? icons. It's silly that sound contacts are not differentiated by infantry and vehicle types. A tank platoon moving behind a hedgerow are simply shown as ?s and there is no way to know this represents vehicle sounds. This is something I thought CMx1 did do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 If the whole point of elite is to anonymity to the opposing units force without definitively identifying those units, then elite is 1/2 broken. Or to be a total downer, completely broken. Since all it does is make me click more, and I can't imagine steve wanting to have players click anymore than they have to. Elite = (should read as in the manual) elite adds a level of annoyance to the game where if you want to know what the opposing unit is, you need to click on the icon, since the game will no longer visually represent what the units capability is. oh, it does also take an extra minute for artillery to come on station. Elite != added difficulty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Elite and Iron are only relevant in RT mode, where you don't have time to click on everything. In WEGO there is no reason to ever play higher than Warrior. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 When I first saw this in CMSF I thought it was a bug, but I was advised it was a feature and "I did not get it." It's just another example of the way CM2 can be a step back from CM1...like RT mode and no WEGO TCPIP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Bottom line, if I were testing on this project it would be filed as a bug, marked to be fixed, priority 3, since it's not crashing anything and it's half working as desired. Priority 3? You must be kidding... It is one of the worst "non crash" bug/feature in the history of CM. I ruins the FOW system of CMx2. (And I say that as a big fan of CMBN) Unfortunately I guess it must be hard to fix, since if it wasn't, it would have been fixed years ago. I really hope it is a tough one. Number one on my priority list, even before AT target arcs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 If you couldn't get info from the unit panel you could just scoot the camera over there and look at the 3D models, and there's the rub. There is no generic mis-identified or partially identified 3D model, what you see is displayed as it is and where it is, so German HQ with peaked caps, Gunners carrying a MG. I agree having less info in the unit panel is a worthy idea, but it is not the end of the story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Ok priOrity oNe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger33 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 *rabble rabble rabble* I too would like to see this changed. Another thing would be not giving a generic soldier icon to spotted AT guns. I mean, you can click on it and see that it is an AT gun, you can look at it directly and see that it is an AT gun, your pixeltruppen know it is an AT gun, the smoke and explosions it creates also tend to give it away, yet the icon doesn't change. This just makes me have to click around or move the camera to see which of those icons is the AT gun. Also the sound contacts not distinguishing between infantry and vehicles, that would be helpful and make sense. Hearing something tends to inherently include information like "engine sounds" vs "footsteps" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Elite and Iron are only relevant in RT mode, where you don't have time to click on everything. In WEGO there is no reason to ever play higher than Warrior. C2 is more difficult to maintain at Elite and Iron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 YEAH! It's insane that I have this info that I can hear something coming down the road, but I don't know whether I can hear an engine or not! GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 C2 is more difficult to maintain at Elite and Iron. You sure 'bout that? CMBN manual pg 61: "Elite is identical to Warrior with only one difference: Enemy infantry icons are always the plain "soldier" type, regardless of their armament or function." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Uno, ein, one. That's all I read. Who needs c2 when you have c3po? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 This is why I prefer to play on veteran setting. The whole iron, and elite thing is just supid to me. I do not find veteran any easier when it comes to tactics as any of the other modes. All the same imformation is there except in veteran "you use the remote control to change the channel on the TV instead of getting up to do it". Beyond that the only real difference between the veteran, and elite rules are the longer time delays for medic aid, and arty as far as i see it. I don't see the point of having to wait 5 minutes to pick up a weapon from a dead pixel troop. I think the manual has it right in saying veteran rules are the perfect balanced mix of realism, and fun without burdening the player with unnessasary long time delays. I think to balance this out for an elite, or iron game the game time needs to be 5 times longer. In the end the CMx1 sighting system imformation was the best IMO. It was way more "irony" than Cmx2. These were the ONLY rules needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Borg spotting was the best? I think not. I do miss those "sound contact" icons. And I honestly didn't notice that my spots were as accurate as anyone said until now. I just assumed them to be inaccurate and planned on contingencies. However, if this entire thread is based on the manual, then I would like to point out something: It says the ICON changes, not the unit info panel. In that statement, wouldn't the current behavior be completely correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 It says the ICON changes, not the unit info panel. In that statement, wouldn't the current behavior be completely correct? Yeah, but that isn't the point. The point is that the current implemention makes no sense, because there is no FOW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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