hm_stanley Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've been following BFC since they started their website in the late 90's however, ive never purchased a combat mission game until now. Im finding it very fun. I think I didnt buy them at the time since I was a close combat junkie and could not get my head around 3d. Anyway, not important. I am tempted to buy cm:bb to understand thr origins of this game, but more importantly, it appears to me that cm:bb is stacked with features not in the current cm:bn. It seems much deeper even if the engine is different. I also think if I do this i might somehow spoil the experience I'm getting with cm:bn and totally confuse myself. Would it be fair to say that cm:bb is deeper than cm:bn both at a funtional level and content level? Or should I just get used to cm:bn and shutup.. I'm curious what others feel.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You couldn't pay me to play CMBO/BB again. Sorry, it's ancient and way out dated. How anyone feels it's "deeper" I have no idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've been following BFC since they started their website in the late 90's however, ive never purchased a combat mission game until now. Im finding it very fun. I think I didnt buy them at the time since I was a close combat junkie and could not get my head around 3d. Anyway, not important. I am tempted to buy cm:bb to understand thr origins of this game, but more importantly, it appears to me that cm:bb is stacked with features not in the current cm:bn. It seems much deeper even if the engine is different. I also think if I do this i might somehow spoil the experience I'm getting with cm:bn and totally confuse myself. Would it be fair to say that cm:bb is deeper than cm:bn both at a funtional level and content level? Or should I just get used to cm:bn and shutup.. I'm curious what others feel.. CMBB is in no way deeper than CMBN, quite the opposite. I've played CMBB since 2003 and CMSF and CMBN since 2007. What CMBB does have going for it, is that to me and many other players CMBB is easier to understand. The game is less detailed and so what is going on on the battlefield is easier to grasp. When I go back, I am frustrated by the borg spotting in CMBB, the fact that squads always act like one entity. They only shoot at one target, squads get pinned down and suppressed together. Tanks duels feel like rolls of dice, and the damage model is way worse. Every unit feels so "artificial", it's like your playing with sophisticated counters. CMBN on the other hand has that nice Close Combat feel, much more organic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It was deeper in 2002...or whenever...but now...well, look at it this way...CMBB is more like playing with miniatures on a sand table...CMBN is like playing with real soldiers in a field. CMBB does have more breadth, say, right out of the box...but so will all the CMX2 games once each Title is created and all its modules added on. You are getting a tighter, more zoomed in fidelity with CMX2 games...where, say in CMBB an abstracted squad of 12 guys (represented by three men) attacks an abstracted machine gun position (represented by 1 man)...modifiers are calculated, fire power is added up, cover is abstracted in and you get an outcome...the machine gun guy jerks...a man dies, the attacking squad jerks 2 men die. So on and so forth until all are dead, broken, or surrender. Take the same encounter in CMBN...you split the squad down into three groups, one provides cover fire while the other two attack from the sides. The machine gun opens up, down goes one of the men in the first squad...a couple hit the dirt and cower, another fires back...the MG security team opens up on squad number two, they exchange fire back and forth...a grenade is thrown...the mg gunner is killed...another German takes over...meanwhile the covering fire from the third squad starts to take effect and pin some of the security team....so on and so forth...see where I am going with this? Fidelity, cinematics, 1:1 man to man, weapon to weapon kickassery VS abstraction, modifiers, and numbers crunching wrapped around lumps of one, two and three man unit representations.... Mord. P.S. And what StikkyPixie said about Borg spotting...no more one hit wonders with AT guns...they are formidable MF's now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookeylou Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I am tempted to buy cm:bb to understand thr origins of this game, but more importantly, it appears to me that cm:bb is stacked with features not in the current cm:bn. It seems much deeper even if the engine is different. I also think if I do this i might somehow spoil the experience I'm getting with cm:bn and totally confuse myself. Don't.... believe.....the....hype..... This is clearly the better war simulation game. not withstanding the nostalgia factor of CMx1. You will be going back in time. And be like WTF? from quake 1 to quake 2 to quake 3. you always have the camp that's stuck. leave'em and enjoy the newness especially if its as fun as this is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Fidelity, cinematics, 1:1 man to man, weapon to weapon kickassery VS abstraction, modifiers, and numbers crunching wrapped around lumps of one, two and three man unit representations.... Mord. P.S. And what StikkyPixie said about Borg spotting...no more one hit wonders with AT guns...they are formidable MF's now. Kickassery? I had to go look. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kickassery 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 CMBB covers a longer timeframe and more different styles of engagement than CMBN really does. It has a few commands (like 'Hull Down' and armour cover arcs, I think) and supposedly things like sewer movement, though I've not really seen anyone say they loved the way that was implemented - it was verrry abstracted... CMBN addresses the xyz locations and velocity of every bullet, unit, leaf and brick. Its QB system makes stringent efforts to retain a C2 chain for every unit, and C2 both matters and has varied elements. I would say that CMBB was broader in scope, but CMBN is so much more detailed that it demands deeper gameplay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Kickassery? I had to go look. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kickassery It was in the spirit of this definition; 1). The act or ability to kick ass in enormous unbelievable ways. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 CMBB is not a good comparison to CMBN, just because of the east front/west front difference. CMBO would be a better comparison. However, neither one is "deeper" than CMBN. The only advantage the two older games have is that they were greater in scope. CMBO's scope is D-Day to VE day. CMBB's scope is the entire eastern front from beginning to end. So, with a greater scope comes a much larger variety of units and equipment. One day CMx2 will be equal and probably greater in scope than either of the two older titles. We just have to wait for and purchase the add on modules. I personally like the approach to the CMx2 grand design. It allows for greater detail to specific campaigns and geographical locations, particularly in map making. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks. I think what u guys are saying content wise, bb has more. Functional and playability, I think you are all saying BN is 21st century, BB is 17th century.. I get that. I think the 3 person squad graphic was one of the main reasons i didnt buy the game in 2002... if i remember correctly.. I remember comparing the demo to close combat and I ended up punting... now, if this cm:bn only reflected simple tank damage decals or broken tracks, it would be perfect.. thats my only beef. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thanks. I think what u guys are saying content wise, bb has more. Functional and playability, I think you are all saying BN is 21st century, BB is 17th century.. I get that. I think the 3 person squad graphic was one of the main reasons i didnt buy the game in 2002... if i remember correctly.. I remember comparing the demo to close combat and I ended up punting... It was fun for it's time in the sun...but yeah, the unit abstractions really took some bending of your imagination...I was able to do it...but man I LOOOOONGED for 1:1. now, if this cm:bn only reflected simple tank damage decals or broken tracks, it would be perfect.. thats my only beef. From your mouth to God's ears my friend. I hope they get this in soooooon!!! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'd never go back....even though East front is the theatre I enjoy the most I just couldn't go back and play CMBB now...so it's just a waiting game for the east front game...still I have an excellent game to fill in the time until the east front game is released this particular game is the best tactical wargame on the market and it has expansions due out...it's called CMBN. I do want some decals though...pretty please... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 CMBB is more like playing with miniatures on a sand table...CMBN is like playing with real soldiers in a field. This is definitely definitely true. CMBN is way deeper. As I just observed in another very similar thread, this doesn't necessarily equate to being a more fun gaming experience though. It is absolutely certainly a more realistic simulation experience. Functional and playability, I think you are all saying BN is 21st century I'm not convinced "playability" is better. It's hard work playing CMBN, in the same way that it's hard work being a real army commander. That's not a game. This one will be a matter of opinion though, I'm sure: there are plenty of ardent fans of the CMx2 playability GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Well, it's hard to tell what 'depth' means to you. Personally I think they're both outstanding games. Neither is perfect, but I think they both are exceptional. But even though they are designed by the same people, aiming for the same things, they are quite different. CMx1 is more abstracted in many ways. This isn't a bad thing, it just is. However, I think depth and abstraction are conflicting concepts, so in that sense CMBN is quite a lot deeper. For example, infantry combat in the two game engines are like night and day: in one you have squads firing volleys at one target at a time, taking magical 'ammo' from a common pool (so the squad LMG could eat all SMG ammo), while in the other each soldier is individually modelled, can pick targets separately depending on what they can see from their locations (so eg. a rifleman could be firing at infantry on the left, the LMG guy is firing at infantry on the right, while the Bazooka man is targetting a tank), each bullet is tracked and the soldiers even stop to reload when their clips, magazines or belts are spent. To me, that is much deeper. But I still consider CMx1 a very elegant system. It has its flaws like any game, but it's also lot of fun. Just believe me, CMBN can also be a lot of fun if you give it a chance! To me, the best part of any version of Combat Mission are all the credible little tales of war that I get to watch. Serzhant Volkov assaults a Tiger in the middle of a bulletstorm and knocks it out with a Molotov coctail. Or Private Bronsky is just about to throw a hand grenade, when he gets shot and the live grenade falls into his feet and takes his squad mate as well. Memorable moments. In that regard Combat Mission has not changed one bit over the years. It just rocks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Canuck Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Having just bought CMAK, CMBB and CMBN, the latter seems to have a LOT more going for it, especially in the area of graphics and I'm sure there's a lot more going on under the hood. That being said, I don't regret buying any of them. The interface is awfully dated on the first two, however the latter sure could do with some updates. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookeylou Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 IMO the relative spotting makes CMBN deeper alone. that's like WOW to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 To me, the best part of any version of Combat Mission are all the credible little tales of war that I get to watch. Serzhant Volkov assaults a Tiger in the middle of a bulletstorm and knocks it out with a Molotov coctail. Or Private Bronsky is just about to throw a hand grenade, when he gets shot and the live grenade falls into his feet and takes his squad mate as well. Memorable moments. In that regard Combat Mission has not changed one bit over the years. It just rocks! I'll ^ 5 you on that. You couldn't be more correct if you were more correct. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm not convinced "playability" is better. It's hard work playing CMBN, in the same way that it's hard work being a real army commander. That's not a game. This one will be a matter of opinion though, I'm sure: there are plenty of ardent fans of the CMx2 playability GaJ I think you'll get it over time...it takes a while. But seriously, except for some jerky camera angles at times, I am completely comfortable with the way it plays. But then again, I've been playing CMSF since release so it's old hat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Frankly, I never thought a game could rival close combat. That game was to me a true reflection of small unit tactics, with the exception of borg spotting, and indirect fire. I grew up with ASL, and i played those gamrs for weeks..literally. When CC came along, I stopped playing SL & ASL. Since that time, ive been looking, oh you never get rid of the SL itch..(I still have all my boxes, cross of iron, GI anvil..). But It was the 3d..too slow, and not what top town 2d provided in terms of player experience, drama, performance.. but BFC seems to have hit it on the head with cm:bn. Also, I related everything to 2d real time, and 3d real time takes getting used to...which, for some reason the wego system finally hit me the right way..not sure... I think its really the infantry implementation that is what is working for me, its really perfectly modeled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I think its really the infantry implementation that is what is working for me, its really perfectly modeled. IN CMX2 infantry really came into their own...in CMX1 tanks and AFVs and got all the love...now both are equally as cool and about equally simulated....it's only gonna get better. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 ^and I love infantry fighting more so than Tanks... When the East front games are finally done and with added features along the way I can see myself having plenty of fun recreating the pioneer assault on the Barikady Factory..."Island of Fire" by Jason Marks goes into it in superb detail and is the perfect book to go by when creating this particular Stalingrad battle...Infact "Island of Fire" is the best East front if not WW2 book I've ever read... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 ^and I love infantry fighting more so than Tanks... When the East front games are finally done and with added features along the way I can see myself having plenty of fun recreating the pioneer assault on the Barikady Factory..."Island of Fire" by Jason Marks goes into it in superb detail and is the perfect book to go by when creating this particular Stalingrad battle...Infact "Island of Fire" is the best East front if not WW2 book I've ever read... Is it $75 good? :/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm_stanley Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 nicht schießen!! nicht schießen!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Like a virgin Getting shelled for the very first time! Like a virgin You head explodes, next to mine 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Is it $75 good? :/ Yes....it's that good...I paid £40 for the soft back...I don't regret a penny of it...also when it goes out of print you can resell it and get more than you paid for it....check out the price of the Leaping Horseman book he wrote...out of print and going for around £200. Not sure where you saw the book...best goto the publishers website Leaping Horseman...as I found Amazon charge more... High quality papaer...high quality maps..unblievable research into individual soldiers...more photos than you can shake a stick at...great maps...and a big book to boot...if somehting happened to ym copy I'd buy it again in a flash...it takes pride of place in my WW2 bookshelf... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.