usgubgub Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Also, the biggest back route for these guys to creep back into power is in Brussels. Big, unelected power structure, riddled with crypto reds. They got game, set and match. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yay Capitalism! EDIT: There's something called "Edit". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sheesh, and I thought US politics were Byzantine. So Europe should what? Overthrow the EU and go back to separate states? Just asking... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76mm Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I'm really only buying CMBN so that I will understand how to play the East Front game when it comes out. Bought CMSF for the same reason but could never get myself to play... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The ruling European elite consists of people born largely in the 50's who went through university through the late sixties - seventies at the height of the cold war. Their heroes were Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro and Che Guevara. Don't forget free love, great rock and roll and psychedelics. The 60's did have quite a few good points. Having been born in the 50's i would say it ain't so bad. Politics is what it is and draws people (at least it seems mostly) that are more interested in the power than any kind of ideals. If they were still idealistic when they get in, that generally has the life span of a Mayfly. The realities of what is possible and what needs to be bargained usually push all to the mediocre. Man when did I ever become so cynical... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I'm really only buying CMBN so that I will understand how to play the East Front game when it comes out. Bought CMSF for the same reason but could never get myself to play... Yes, thanks for dragging this sucker back on track. I got carried away myself there for a bit too. I also hope that the East Front module is not too far off. I'm curious to play this new iteration and to see how well it will adapt itself to that front. So far it looks very promising. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Be careful what you wish for people.... For all I liked CNBB I think the CMx2 version could be a very different game. One of the biggest changes that we have seen is in command and control (C2) and the importance of battlefield cohesion and communication. I think this will be the key to making the game realistic in that the russian superiority in numbers will be balanced realistically by terrible C2. This will mean that as a Russian player a lot of the time you will be either issuing orders to no one or watching your orders being ignored. Certain in a T-34 v PzV battle I suspect that once the hatches close you could find yourself as all but a spectator. The way to win as the Russians might be to have a solid simple battle plan and to stick to it hoping that the Germans don't do something unexpected and that you can make enough progress before the fog of war gives the advantage to the Germans who will react better. In effect to win as a Russian you will need to play as a Russian. If they build it that way and it works they will have made a brillant game, but it might be one that disappoints those people who love Russian hardware and underestimate russian weaknesses. I remember the frustrations in CMBB of having a tank that could cut a PzIV in half but was scared to face it. If anything I suspect that in CMx2 commanding the Russians will be even more frustrating..... I like that idea and the challenges it brings, but not everyone will. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Be careful what you wish for people.... For all I liked CNBB I think the CMx2 version could be a very different game. One of the biggest changes that we have seen is in command and control (C2) and the importance of battlefield cohesion and communication. I think this will be the key to making the game realistic in that the russian superiority in numbers will be balanced realistically by terrible C2. This will mean that as a Russian player a lot of the time you will be either issuing orders to no one or watching your orders being ignored. Certain in a T-34 v PzV battle I suspect that once the hatches close you could find yourself as all but a spectator. The way to win as the Russians might be to have a solid simple battle plan and to stick to it hoping that the Germans don't do something unexpected and that you can make enough progress before the fog of war gives the advantage to the Germans who will react better. In effect to win as a Russian you will need to play as a Russian. If they build it that way and it works they will have made a brillant game, but it might be one that disappoints those people who love Russian hardware and underestimate russian weaknesses. I remember the frustrations in CMBB of having a tank that could cut a PzIV in half but was scared to face it. If anything I suspect that in CMx2 commanding the Russians will be even more frustrating..... I like that idea and the challenges it brings, but not everyone will. Peter. I don't know if you played CMSF or not, but being out of C2 does NOT mean that you CANNOT give orders any more. Being out of C2 affects morale, fighting performance, spotting and relaying information. What you will see is that it is really hard to read the battlefield because there will be <?> contact markers everywhere and Russian tanks will more difficult time spotting (if they don't have radios that is, although I suspect by the time of Bagration, this will be less of a problem). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 usgubgub I really hope BFC takes you up on your offer. That's all . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiao Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Be careful what you wish for people.... For all I liked CNBB I think the CMx2 version could be a very different game. One of the biggest changes that we have seen is in command and control (C2) and the importance of battlefield cohesion and communication. I think this will be the key to making the game realistic in that the russian superiority in numbers will be balanced realistically by terrible C2. This will mean that as a Russian player a lot of the time you will be either issuing orders to no one or watching your orders being ignored. Certain in a T-34 v PzV battle I suspect that once the hatches close you could find yourself as all but a spectator. The way to win as the Russians might be to have a solid simple battle plan and to stick to it hoping that the Germans don't do something unexpected and that you can make enough progress before the fog of war gives the advantage to the Germans who will react better. In effect to win as a Russian you will need to play as a Russian. If they build it that way and it works they will have made a brillant game, but it might be one that disappoints those people who love Russian hardware and underestimate russian weaknesses. I remember the frustrations in CMBB of having a tank that could cut a PzIV in half but was scared to face it. If anything I suspect that in CMx2 commanding the Russians will be even more frustrating..... I like that idea and the challenges it brings, but not everyone will. Peter. I don't know if C2 would be quite so much of a problem for the Russians once they actually got into contact with the enemy. Probably a simple plan would be better and probably their formations would be denser, but in CM terms they would probablyat least mostly get into the battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 One thing to consider: as the war grinds on past 1943, many of the Red Army's surviving small units did build up enough experience (and confidence) to be able to fight autonomously a bit better than earlier in the war. Perhaps not with a lot of initiative and flair, but enough to know how to go about completing most assigned missions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldat-Hans Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 PS: Who loves russian Front:" Achtung Panzer Kharkov 1943" and Achtung Panzer, Opeartion Star is a good and realistic ww2 Simulation. Have all two of them, But Operation star is in russian only so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Careful Soldat, Steve will end this thread if you talk about potentially competitive products (quite reasonable as BF are fronting this forum). I think CMBB2 will have quite a few changes, relative spotting will make Pak fronts far more lethal, artillery will kick up dust clouds and tanks will suffer from non-penetrating hits that attrite their capabilities. These will affect all sides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I think CMBB2 will have quite a few changes, relative spotting will make Pak fronts far more lethal, artillery will kick up dust clouds and tanks will suffer from non-penetrating hits that attrite their capabilities. These will affect all sides. Not to mention the best change of all, the unbridled GLORY of watching German and Russian SMG squads duke it out at point-blank range in 1:1 detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldat-Hans Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Careful Soldat, Steve will end this thread if you talk about potentially competitive products (quite reasonable as BF are fronting this forum). Sorry, just wanted to mention the game. Dont know, what so wrong with that. Fans of That games, will defenetly buy CM:BN too. Just like CM:BO, BB, AK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Careful Soldat, Steve will end this thread if you talk about potentially competitive products (quite reasonable as BF are fronting this forum). Well, as far as I am concerned, Panzer Command Kharkov is no real threat to BFC: Yes, the graphics are nice and it has some cool features - like tanks throwing a track and leaving it behind - but the cons way outweigh the pros in my opinion: The biggest cons being that it is real time, not WEGO, and the user interface is very confusing. I played it for a couple of weeks, then decided I didn´t bother. But that´s just MY opnion. Oh, and by the way: count me among those players that consider the eastern front "the real thing". But I can live with Normandy - if it´s released soon ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Not to mention the best change of all, the unbridled GLORY of watching German and Russian SMG squads duke it out at point-blank range in 1:1 detail. Hopefully they won't act like the CMBB grim-reapers, altogether now volley fire with Papashas! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Well, as far as I am concerned, Panzer Command Kharkov is no real threat to BFC: Yes, the graphics are nice and it has some cool features - like tanks throwing a track and leaving it behind - but the cons way outweigh the pros in my opinion: The biggest cons being that it is real time, not WEGO, and the user interface is very confusing. I played it for a couple of weeks, then decided I didn´t bother. But that´s just MY opnion. Oh, and by the way: count me among those players that consider the eastern front "the real thing". But I can live with Normandy - if it´s released soon ;-) Downloaded the demo and the UI and camera angles were far too confusing. Didn't bother buying it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It would show this forum in a very good light if we don't start comparing the two...it would be to our credit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 PS: Who loves russian Front:" Achtung Panzer Kharkov 1943" and Achtung Panzer, Opeartion Star is a good and realistic ww2 Simulation. Have all two of them, But Operation star is in russian only so far. Is there a demo? Oh wait,, there is 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comandante Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Count me as one of those hoping the next game in this series will focus on the Eastern Front. +1 I imagine that between the mods and the scenario development, a lot of the West Front possibilities will be provided via CMBN... I can't wait to fight through Stalingrad following a series of tank battles across the Steppe LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comandante Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I don't know if you played CMSF or not, but being out of C2 does NOT mean that you CANNOT give orders any more. I thought they added a feature where the icons for out of C2 get grayed out and you can't command the units in question? I'm sure I read that in the online manual as well... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Downloaded the demo and the UI and camera angles were far too confusing. Didn't bother buying it. Oh, yes - the camera movement. I´d completely forgotten about that. Guess I must have repressed that memory. The camera movement is absolutely horrible, actually enough to put you off the game alone (from motion sickness). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I thought they added a feature where the icons for out of C2 get grayed out and you can't command the units in question? I'm sure I read that in the online manual as well... No, you'll never lose control of your units just to lack of C2. That would make the game very frustrating to play, to say the least. You might lose control of them due to morale though. Incidentally, a couple people, including a previewing reviewer I believe, have misunderstood Iron mode. You don't lose control of units in it. You'll just have a harder time coordinating some actions with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I thought they added a feature where the icons for out of C2 get grayed out and you can't command the units in question? I'm sure I read that in the online manual as well... I'm pretty sure this is not the case. Unit icons are greyed out if they cannot be controlled, but that's because they are panicked (or something similar) and not because they are out of C2. Unless you can show me the page in manual . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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