Infantry popping smoke

[Felix_45]

First time poster

According to the manual for CMBN it says that infantry equipped to do so can pop smoke.....That is something different from the CMx1 games.

I also recall reading a huge thread on a CMx1 forum where gamers were wanting infantry to pop smoke but Battlefront defending their decision for them not to.

So the question of the day, will infantry have the ability to pop smoke?

Cheers

[Praetori]

First time poster

According to the manual for CMBN it says that infantry equipped to do so can pop smoke.....That is something different from the CMx1 games.

I also recall reading a huge thread on a CMx1 forum where gamers were wanting infantry to pop smoke but Battlefront defending their decision for them not to.

So the question of the day, will infantry have the ability to pop smoke?

Cheers

They do in CMSF if that's any help.

[MikeyD]

Not only do they pop smoke but each side throws the correct, properly marked smoke genades too.

[Felix_45]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I have SF and NATO and like having the option for my infantry to pop smoke, especially before they run across a street....but I recall a thread where this was discussed on the CMx1 engine where gamers wanted infantry to throw smoke but BFC rational for not letting them so was that is was not historically correct. So I was surprised to see this in the manual.

P.S. I searched the archives but could not find the thread I'm thinking of.....maybe I was drunk when I read it and I'm not remembering correctly.

[Barkhorn1x]

Not only do they pop smoke but each side throws the correct, properly marked smoke genades too.

Tube Guy sees smoke - jumps up - and exclaims:

"Ooooh look at the colors!!"

...as he takes one through the helmet.

[Praetori]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I have SF and NATO and like having the option for my infantry to pop smoke, especially before they run across a street....but I recall a thread where this was discussed on the CMx1 engine where gamers wanted infantry to throw smoke but BFC rational for not letting them so was that is was not historically correct. So I was surprised to see this in the manual.

P.S. I searched the archives but could not find the thread I'm thinking of.....maybe I was drunk when I read it and I'm not remembering correctly.

On map mortars and other weapons are probably still capable of firing smoke so it's not strange that it's in the manual. I remember the discussion you're referring to though.

[Waycool]

Awwww tube guy, gotta love him that crazy jumping bastard

[Felix_45]

I remember the discussion you're referring to though.

Whew, at least I still have my faculties

[ShakyJake]

Just how common were smoke grenades in real life, during this time? I seem to recall reading that there were very few issued, and those were generally colored smoke for marking purposes?

[PAEZ]

Tube Guy sees smoke - jumps up - and exclaims:

"Ooooh look at the colors!!"

...as he takes one through the helmet.

Tube Guy Never dies!

[whako]

P.S. I searched the archives but could not find the thread I'm thinking of.....maybe I was drunk when I read it and I'm not remembering correctly.

No I remember that exact same comment from someone @ BF. I love the idea of laying down smoke from street to street even if it is kinda "gamey" in my opinion:)

[panzermartin]

Infantry can smoke but BFC is forced to deny this as "gamey". Otherwise they will have problems with the anti-smoking law.

[MikeyD]

You are dissuaded from overusing artillery smoke. They're firing White phospherous. Your men will actually experience casualties just walking through it. Infantry smoke grenades are HC smoke - pretty much air-ignited hexaclorethane and aluminum powder. It'll still probably kill you but not til you're in your fifties.

[womble]

You are dissuaded from overusing artillery smoke. They're firing White phospherous. Your men will actually experience casualties just walking through it. Infantry smoke grenades are HC smoke - pretty much air-ignited hexaclorethane and aluminum powder. It'll still probably kill you but not til you're in your fifties.

WW2 arty smoke was all Willy Pete?

Edit: Ooo, maybe they are. It's the "casualties from just being in it" that surprised me: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm Says: "...Most smokes are not hazardous in concentrations which are useful for obscuring purposes. However, any smoke can be hazardous to health if the concentration is sufficient or if the exposure is long enough...Casualties from WP smoke have not occurred in combat operations..." It does go on to list the ways in which they could cause combat casualties, but that's extraneous. Is the casualty from smoke thing just a game fudge, like the HE effect nerf?

[Alan8325]

WW2 arty smoke was all Willy Pete?

Edit: Ooo, maybe they are. It's the "casualties from just being in it" that surprised me: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm Says: "...Most smokes are not hazardous in concentrations which are useful for obscuring purposes. However, any smoke can be hazardous to health if the concentration is sufficient or if the exposure is long enough...Casualties from WP smoke have not occurred in combat operations..." It does go on to list the ways in which they could cause combat casualties, but that's extraneous. Is the casualty from smoke thing just a game fudge, like the HE effect nerf?

Perhaps CM is abstracting the incendiary effects of WP that would occur shortly after the burst of the shell. It's interesting that no casualties have been reported due to WP useage when the Wikipedia page on WP shows a clear picture of a WP "casualty". That said, in CM terms those injuries would probably represent a "yellow" casualty, as it looks plenty painful and severe enough to limit combat performance, but not bad enough to floor someone of solid mental toughness. Also, those injuries look as though they were sustained by being hit directly by burning chunks of WP released immediately after the detonation of the round.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

[Vinnart]

What I would like to know is if tanks can FIRE smoke rounds as in CMx1? In CMSF tanks can pop smoke, but do not have smoke ammo to fire since it is not standard of modern warfare I suppose. Not sure if having smoke ammo for tanks was standard in WWII, but I would like to fire smoke rounds to block AT guns LOS ala CMx1.

[akd]

I believe tank smoke rounds were introduced with the Brit Module Challenger 2 in CMSF. This feature hasn't gone away.

[Magpie_Oz]

WW2 arty smoke was all Willy Pete?

No, most smoke rounds are the base ejection HC type similar to the grenades, mainly because WP smoke is hot and tends to create thin colums rather than billowing clouds.

Check this link for probably more than you ever want to know about British arty : http://nigelef.tripod.com/ammo.htm

[Vinnart]

Good to hear shoot smoke is in. I got CMSF base + Marines. No Brit, or NATO so I missed that one.

[LongLeftFlank]

Tube Guy Never dies!

...permanently. He's like Kenny. You bastards!

[Michael Emrys]

I think the reason infantry smoke was not allowed in CMx1 is that BFC was afraid that players would abuse it. But if players are strictly limited in how many smoke grenades a squad can carry, that shouldn't be a problem.

Michael

[womble]

It's interesting that no casualties have been reported due to WP useage when the Wikipedia page on WP shows a clear picture of a WP "casualty".

No one said there's been no casualties due to WP usage. Of course WP produces some horrific injuries. The globalsecurity article refers to the lack of reported casualties from the smoke.

That said, in CM terms those injuries would probably represent a "yellow" casualty, as it looks plenty painful and severe enough to limit combat performance, but not bad enough to floor someone of solid mental toughness.

Chemical burns are incredibly painful. Phosphorus burns of that severity would make it almost impossible to continue fighting, I'd think.

Also, those injuries look as though they were sustained by being hit directly by burning chunks of WP released immediately after the detonation of the round.

Quite. Not the smoke.

[A Canadian Cat]

First time poster

According to the manual for CMBN it says that infantry equipped to do so can pop smoke.....That is something different from the CMx1 games.

Interesting can you tell us what page in the manual? The teaser format is kind of hard to browse and find things easily.

A while back I was talking to my father about infantry using smoke grenades for a smoke screen. He said even in the 60s and 70s when he was a front line infantry officer they did not have the capability to create their own smoke screens from the soldiers themselves. They had to call it in from mortars or artillery to do it. They carried a small number of coloured smoke grenades for signaling but that was about it.

Ian

[DaveyJJ]

Tube Guy Never dies!

<duffmanvoice>"Only the actors who portray him!"</duffmanvoice>

[Pandur]

in CMSF the use of the pop smoke command for infantry was quiet painfull. it takes at least 2 full turns(2 minutes) to get it done.

it takes one minute to give the troops "face" command, so they dont pop the smoke just somewhere, and the 2nd minute it takes to throw the smoke. funny thing was that the volume of the smoke was so tiny that after the turn ended and your men moved out the next, 3rd turn, the smoke was mostly gone.

also i had some hair pulling moments when in the turn i used face command, the troop was shot at and smart as they are faced another direction by themselfs, makeing it impossible to deploy the smoke to where i wanted to, next turn.

is the pop smoke command in any way improved form CMSF, or is it as troublesome to use as it was? i would wish for the possibility to have a troop halt, face a direction and THEN throw smoke, all in the "same" turn... .