Wanting to buy this game but...

[Hetzer21]

Hi chaps, lomg time no see.

I've only just become aware of this game. I remember four years ago or so when Steve said about doing WW2 on the new engine..."We're sick of WW2."

But, finally, here we are.

My question concerns the DRM. Usually the x4 activations per year wouldn't have worried me, but it just so happens that I had to uninstall and reinstall a game four times in one day (it had been working ok) until I realised it needed to be outside of W7-64's x86 folder./

If, for whatever reason, I use up all my activations inside of one year will I be able to get it going again by contacting the staff here?

I lost all my code-numbers/licence emails for CMBO, CMBB and CMAK, but as me and my bros could not get them working on W7 anyway that was a moot point.

We're really looking forward to this one but just want assurances we'll never end up with coasters, temporariliy or otherwise.

TIA.

[Rocky Balboa]

My understanding is that you will be able to install/reinstall as many times as you want to but you will have to reactivate if you make a major change to your system.

A major change would be adding a new HD, replacing the CPU or possibly a new video card or reinstalling windows. Making a major upgrade like this would require you to use an activation of which you get 4 originally and 1 additional each year.

[Hetzer21]

Thanks Rocky.

Are you saying the game will install software that will monitor my system and would know when I added/changed hardware components? That's a deal-breaker right there I'm afraid.

[Chops]

Are you saying the game will install software that will monitor my system and would know when I added/changed hardware components? That's a deal-breaker right there I'm afraid.

Alrighty then, bye bye.

[ChrisND]

Thanks Rocky.

Are you saying the game will install software that will monitor my system and would know when I added/changed hardware components? That's a deal-breaker right there I'm afraid.

Even if it did, why does it matter? I bet Google knows a lot more personal info about you than what model number motherboard you have without connection to any other information for useful context.

[Blackcat]

Thanks Rocky.

Are you saying the game will install software that will monitor my system and would know when I added/changed hardware components? That's a deal-breaker right there I'm afraid.

Do you use Windows? Windows has been using the make up of a computer in its licensing system for years. No software is installed, just when the programme is activated it takes note of certain key features of a computer rig. Try and install on another rig and you use another "life" reinstall on the same rig and you don't.

I don't think BF are going to change this, and nor should they. After all its by the sweat of their brow that will we have the game to play and it sis their intellectual property to sell or licence as they see fit. BF have to turn a serious profit on this game to cover their investment and provide the funds for the next in the series.

I really struggle to see why so many people have a problem with the DRM arrangements, but if you can't accept them I guess you won't be playing the game.

[noxnoctum]

Always online activations (Ubisoft) are ridiculous. I don't like limited installs either which is just an excuse to make more money IMO.

But whatever. I don't think I'll use up 4 in a year.

Companies should focus on making quality games instead of forcing DRMs on paying customers. The pirates ALWAYS find loopholes. ALWAYS. Within like 2 days of Assassin Creed 2's release (requires you to be online ALL THE TIME, even though it's a purely single player game---if your internet goes down during a tough part of a mission and you haven't saved well tough luck, you're screwed)

[Rocky Balboa]

Thanks Rocky.

Are you saying the game will install software that will monitor my system and would know when I added/changed hardware components? That's a deal-breaker right there I'm afraid.

Lots of DRM schemes use fingerprinting to determine if you are the original purchaser of the software. The software isn't tracking how many times you upgrade system nor does it care. It just identifies your system by the type of components it has in it.

As long as you don't change one of those components then you can reinstall as much as you like. If you do change a major component then you will need to use another of your activations.

IMO this is a much better arrangement than the old e-license scheme where you had to remember to uninstall before you made a major change. Under the old system if you had a HD crash and had to re-load windows then guess what? You just lost your install and you only had 2 of those in total ...

[Lt Belenko]

BFC stated if there is a problem with DRM they will absolutely right any wrong. Just like they've correct any bugs for last 11 years.

Fear not and buy the damn game already, DRM or no DRM.

One more thing: not "every" bug has been righted...there is this Bren Gun tripod issue still unfinished.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1245802&postcount=153

[Hetzer21]

It's not the DRM per-se, it's having 3rd-party sofware on my system that might screw up the OS and/or hardware. Securom anyone?

Four activations only, no problem, so long as I know I can contact somebody here, prove I'm a legit owner and get the game running again. Online activation, no problem. But snoop-ware in my system? Permanently? That might trash it? No way in hell. How anyone can be ambivilant about that is beyond me. What's the name of this software? Who makes it? What's the course of action re recompense if it does trash ones system? Same as Securom, flat-out lies and denials so people had to replace bricked CD-Drives from their own pockets?

Don't denigrate the legitimate concerns of CM fans. I want the game, but even if only on principle I'm not going to tolerate unknown and possibly injurious software on my system.

[GhostRider3/3]

It's not the DRM per-se, it's having 3rd-party sofware on my system that might screw up the OS and/or hardware. Securom anyone?

Four activations only, no problem, so long as I know I can contact somebody here, prove I'm a legit owner and get the game running again. Online activation, no problem. But snoop-ware in my system? Permanently? That might trash it? No way in hell. How anyone can be ambivilant about that is beyond me. What's the name of this software? Who makes it? What's the course of action re recompense if it does trash ones system? Same as Securom, flat-out lies and denials so people had to replace bricked CD-Drives from their own pockets?

Don't denigrate the legitimate concerns of CM fans. I want the game, but even if only on principle I'm not going to tolerate unknown and possibly injurious software on my system.

I have been a loyal customer of Battlefront since their first bloody game... like many others that think the same way, I highly doubt the folks of Battlefront would want any harm or malicious content on anyones system.. and I am pretty sure they have worked this out with whatever vendor they have chosen. It is only their intent Iam sure that they would keep a happy loyal fanbase and purchasers of their products. I respect your concern but I highly doubt anything malicious would ever happen to your system via Battlefront, and who they work with.

[ChrisND]

It's not the DRM per-se, it's having 3rd-party sofware on my system that might screw up the OS and/or hardware. Securom anyone?

The whole "DRM is gonna destroy my computer" thing has been, as usual, overblown. There's a lot more out there in the DRM market than Securom, which is just one example. Do you avoid riding in all cars because of the reputation of the Pinto?

I play a lot of games, and so I've had a lot of DRM on my machine, including the very one being talked about on this forum. It has yet be destroyed by it. Really, there's bigger things to be concerned about.

[SNAFU]

Don't denigrate the legitimate concerns of CM fans. I want the game, but even if only on principle I'm not going to tolerate unknown and possibly injurious software on my system.

I don't blame you. Caution is always prudent as is asking questions.

There are a couple other threads on this forum about the protection being used for the game and I'd recommend giving them a look (they can't be buried very far down the list). From what I've read (and thought about) the protection for this product doesn't seem overly harsh.

As the owner of a computer shop, I deal with software licensing every day and it is a PITA. However--software developers really have no choice but to take these steps to protect their investment. And it is a Huge Investment. A lot of money goes into the product before they can expect to see their 1st Guiness in the form of profit.

I'm not saying just accept it. I refused to accept Ubisoft's DRM for SH5 as I felt they were going way too far. (They haven't seen a dime of my money since). But from what I've read about BF's agreement, I'm really not worried. I have a couple customers that might fit the category of roasting their system 4 times in one year but I certainly hope you don't fall into that minority .

Again, I respect a cautious approach when it comes to computer and software purchases. But I doubt BF is very interested in data mining or snooping my browsing habits (but I'll be checking ). Hopefully they will be too busy working on the next module in the series (after a tying on a serious bender of course).

So I've pre-ordered and wait with twittering anticipation for the release. In all probability, there will be many not "risking" the product because of license agreements. But I won't notice. I'll be enjoying the game!

Cheers!

[Hetzer21]

I have been a loyal customer of Battlefront since their first bloody game... like many others that think the same way, I highly doubt the folks of Battlefront would want any harm or malicious content on anyones system.. and I am pretty sure they have worked this out with whatever vendor they have chosen. It is only their intent Iam sure that they would keep a happy loyal fanbase and purchasers of their products. I respect your concern but I highly doubt anything malicious would ever happen to your system via Battlefront, and who they work with.

I came onboard when their first game was a free beta-demo, which iirc was upgraded a number of times. That's got to be nigh on a decade ago? Bloody nora.

I think I'll waiver on this one and instead of pre-ordering (for the tin box ) I'll wait and see how the release goes. Not meaning to take liberties and use you chaps as guinea-pigs of course.

[SNAFU]

I think I'll waiver on this one and instead of pre-ordering (for the tin box ) I'll wait and see how the release goes. Not meaning to take liberties and use you chaps as guinea-pigs of course.

Speaking for myself--I've been used for worse things and still had a good time.

I hope my bet is right and that I'll see you in the Bocage sooner than later.

[dakuth]

I'm not sure anyone has really answered your question properly.

Disclaimer: I have not read any threads on this for this game....

but hardware fingerprinting is a common practice. I doubt there is any monitoring software installed. All that will happen is when CMBN starts for the first time, it will query windows for some details of your hardware - perfectly open stuff that it needs to query to run the game anyway.

It then will make a unique "hash" key out of this, and save it. Whenever CMBN starts thereafter, it will do the hardware check once again and compare it to the saved hash. If the hash is too different (or missing!,) the game will think it has been has been copied or installed to another computer. It will then require you to punch in your activation code again - which will no doubt require communication with the internet and there they will track your total activations.

Sometimes programs like this don't communicate immediately, to allow you to still play your single-player game without requiring an internet connection - but next time you jump on the net, they upload your latest activations.

There's a few workarounds with this sort of logic - sometimes you can play without the internet, and then there is no way for the game to compare activations (but next you get on the net it will probably sync) or since you have several activations you could possibly install on two different computers, activating both. I have no idea if BFC has taken these scenarios into account or not. Your choice if you want to find out. I assume they don't actually upload your hash because that would require an internet connection every time you start the game - but perhaps that is exactly what they require.

*shrug*

Anyway. No monitoring software, fairly benign stuff, and only the one internet connection for activation..... *most likely*

[scottie]

I know there was another topic on DRM that was closed recently by Steve , just wanted to get my 2 cents into this issue. I am another one of these people that tend to format and rebuild the OS a few times per year.

eLicences worked well (once i figured it out) i could uninstall the licence and reinstall it when required , only problems that every occurred was when i forgot to uninstall the licence the first time.

Under this set of circumstances i simply wanted to understand how the new licence system effected me. The other thread appeared to suggest 4 activations we allocated in the first year then 1 per year there after. The above then suggests changing a critical component (i guess it changes the hardware hash#/footprint ... Microsoft do the same thing) can prompt the need to reactivate.

Simply looking for clarity.

Thank you

Scott

[dieseltaylor]

The CMBB version provided by CDV in Europe was a true nightmare being incredibly picky about running on certain drives - and you were meant to have the GD in the drive. It got so bad I bought the US version. And as for swopping disks when you had multiple CMAK and CMBB games.!!!!!

SO I am really grateful that this DRM is much more forgiving.

[MikeyD]

A simple solution. If anyone's being kept up at night imagining horrible terrible things then just don't buy the game. Go play Farmville then come back in a year.

[AslakH]

What's this "Farmville"?

Sounds tactical, and I am sure it won't piss people off when I send them requests ALL the time!

I. Hate. Farmville.

[Battlefront.com]

Hi chaps, lomg time no see.

I've only just become aware of this game. I remember four years ago or so when Steve said about doing WW2 on the new engine..."We're sick of WW2."

And after working on WW2 again for 2 years straight, I'm again sick of it.

Kidding

My question concerns the DRM. Usually the x4 activations per year wouldn't have worried me, but it just so happens that I had to uninstall and reinstall a game four times in one day (it had been working ok) until I realised it needed to be outside of W7-64's x86 folder./

You could install a hundred times in one day and it wouldn't use up more than one activation. There's a difference between activation and installation.

If, for whatever reason, I use up all my activations inside of one year will I be able to get it going again by contacting the staff here?

Yes, of course. It's already like that with eLicense, which we've been using for something like 5 or 6 years now with extremely few customer complaints.

We're really looking forward to this one but just want assurances we'll never end up with coasters, temporariliy or otherwise.

Temporarily? Well, that's possible. Usually not longer than a few hours, but since someone would have to reactivate you it could be up to a day if the timing was bad.

Steve

[czinger]

Would be cool if they threw these games on Steam. Plus it would help get the word out more.

[scottie]

I dislike facebook , ran a poll recently on a forum, results were about 50 - 50 surprisingly , was expecting more people to like it.

/anti-facebook faction.

[Battlefront.com]

As others have said, Google and Microsoft gather VAST amounts of information off your computer, whether you like it or not. And unlike us, they actually use that information for purposes that are not directly related to the functionality of your software. So when I hear someone giving me a sob story about being "spied on" or "inconvenienced" by our little wargaming stuff, I say cancel your Internet access and live in an information cave. Because honestly, that's really the only way to protect yourself. Don't want to do that? Well, welcome to the real world where life isn't a bed of roses

"Fingerprints" have been in use for a couple decades now. What happens is when you activate the game logs a few pieces of information that helps determine your computer from a billion others. The information itself is utterly useless to us and is also not used by the DRM company except for it's sole intended purpose... to check against each time the game is run. If the game runs and the "fingerprint" doesn't match the system that it was activated on, you will have to activate again. At this point you use up a license. We don't want to be terribly specific about WHAT things we track because that's like a bank posting the make and model of vault, alarm systems, and cameras that are used to protect the depositor's money. Anyhoo, if the fingerprint checks out then the game runs.

Now, is any information being beamed to the mother ship? Is a tinfoil hat needed? No and no, unless you really want to look rather silly Quick double check... the DRM works offline and doesn't require an Internet connection. Now, if the DRM just assumed you were OK if it couldn't contact the mother ship, then that would be a pretty easy way to get around the DRM, wouldn't it? So OBVIOUSLY the DRM is self contained and it checks internal to your computer and doesn't go external unless you need to activate.

Lastly, where the heck is this DRM anyway? Is it some virus secretly installed on your computer by our installer? No. It is inside the CM:BN EXE. So unless you think Combat Mission itself is a virus and intent on causing harm, then you're all set.

Remember, we aren't idiots. We know bad DRM drives away customers. So why on Earth would we spend so much time and money on a DRM that would piss off so many people that we'd go out of business simply because of boycotts by otherwise reasonable people? In the past 12 years have we struck anybody here as being particularly braindead and oblivious to our customers? I mean, we couldn't possibly have read every one of the several million posts on this Forum, but it's probably a safe bet we've at least read more than the ones in this particular thread.

Bottom line here... cut us some slack. And if you don't want to, fine. Go away and try again later. We'll still be here, unless our turn towards evil suddenly becomes evident. Dang it... there I go, revealing our true intentions. Blast what the lack of sleep does to the judgement portion of the brain!

Steve

[stikkypixie]

I know there was another topic on DRM that was closed recently by Steve , just wanted to get my 2 cents into this issue. I am another one of these people that tend to format and rebuild the OS a few times per year.

eLicences worked well (once i figured it out) i could uninstall the licence and reinstall it when required , only problems that every occurred was when i forgot to uninstall the licence the first time.

Under this set of circumstances i simply wanted to understand how the new licence system effected me. The other thread appeared to suggest 4 activations we allocated in the first year then 1 per year there after. The above then suggests changing a critical component (i guess it changes the hardware hash#/footprint ... Microsoft do the same thing) can prompt the need to reactivate.

Simply looking for clarity.

Thank you

Scott

Pure out of personal interest. But what causes you to reinstall a format and install the OS every couple of months? I also use Ubuntu linux and already find it quite a hassle to update to new version of the system every 6 months, let alone wipe all my data clean and to put all the settings the way I like it. Just curious .