am i being rude? (chopper)

[normannobrot]

love the new modules coming out, realy cant wait for NATO.

but i do think its getting a bit un-balanced now, i mean the add-on will add 3 new armies to the blue side, and only 3 to 4 new vehicles to the syrian side?

correct me if im wrong, (or being rude) lmao.

but i think we need more bad guys.

ta

[Boche]

well since we are invading syria...jeje

[Field Marshal Blücher]

To be honest, the game's about invading Syria. What new bad guys could BFC conceivably give you? They've already given you T-90s (which Syria doesn't even have in real life).

I think that beyond these vehicles there's really nothing else that could be added without substantially expanding the scope of the game, which would necessitate almost as much work as the base game.

[Michael Emrys]

Wait until CM:N. There will be plenty of bad guys there (and they'll be plenty good at trying to kill the good guys).

Michael

[Sivodsi]

Wait until CMSF2. Apparently that will include Chinese and Russian armed forces.

Edit to add:

Actually, don't feel constrained by Red v Blue battles. Some of the most fun are Red vs Red, and now that we have five blue sides (six including marines) you can let your imagination run wild in creating a Europe vs Americas scenarios.

[Chops]

For me there are plenty of "bad guys" in CM:SF already...U.S. Forces and the British. I have really enjoyed playing Red vs. Blue.

Look at the way Blue forces have behaved around the world over the last 200 years. A Blue force was the only one to have ever actually used nuclear weapons, and they were dropped on two very large civilian populations.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and as we all know, the masses are conditioned by propoganda regarding these two terms.

[vincere]

Off the top of my head: the irregulars could be added to or developed.

[Dietrich]

Before this thread gets locked for becoming too highly charged, let me state that when playing CM:SF or any other wargame, I purposely avoid thinking in terms of politics or ideology or in terms of who really are the "bad guys". I try to have the mindset of a professional soldier, whether that soldier is American, Syrian, German, or whatever. Sure, I play mostly Blue, but that's not because I think Westerners are "good"-er than Syrians -- I just dig playing the force that has the best "toys" and has well-developed strategic/tactical doctrine. Even so, I certainly enjoy the occasion Red-versus-Red scenario.

[MeatEtr]

Did you see the air support additions their giving Red?

Air Support:

• MiG-23
  
• MiG-21bis
  
• Su-25
  
• Su-22M
  
• Su-17M
  
• Mi-24P
  
• Mi-24D

I think they've stretched this fictional war with Syria pretty much as far as it can go.

Besides, I think most of us are looking forward to MG-42s rocking & rolling along with Shermans getting brewed up.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[vincere]

Curious what you had in mind more specifically. Uncons are by far my favourite force to play.

I like the IED options a lot. For me playing uncons is all about setting traps and ambushes in places where blue support will have a hard time helping out. And making huge explosions with IEDs.

Knee jerk reaction was suicide vehicle and foot IEDs. Yeah, less tired now so can see how that would cause issues; but heh more could be done with IEDs.

More variety of units. Civilian types would be good. I know they can't modle civ-pop like grandtheft auto; but maybe a platoon of civies where only one can engage. If the other civie groups are taken out by blue major negative points.

Oh yes nearly forgot- units or AI that use the RPG like mortars sometime.

[Mord]

Blah, blah, blah...political agenda, political agenda...something, something.

Take your pills...you're gettin' all feverish again.

Mord.

[theFightingSeabee]

Knee jerk reaction was suicide vehicle and foot IEDs. Yeah, less tired now so can see how that would cause issues; but heh more could be done with IEDs.

More variety of units. Civilian types would be good. I know they can't modle civ-pop like grandtheft auto; but maybe a platoon of civies where only one can engage. If the other civie groups are taken out by blue major negative points.

Oh yes nearly forgot- units or AI that use the RPG like mortars sometime.

There are definitely suicide car bombers (the good guys according to Chops) and different forms of IED's already in the game. Otherwise, there's plenty of mods that can change up at least the appearance of the uncons. I wanted some civilian squads in there too, but BFC doesn't want to go in that direction. They'd rather keep it military vs military.

[Webwing]

I don´t think you are being rude normannobrot, but you should try and look at things from a different perspective!

I always play from the blue side, so one might say I`m biased.

One might argue that even then I´m always facing the same enemy. However depending on the forces you are given the mission is so completely different and takes completely different tactics.

The NATO module will put that in evidence even more. When you compare the Mech Coys of each of the 3 countries you can see how different they are. Vehicles, squads and sections, weapons and even the AT assets are very different and assigned to units at different levels. So the same mission with a Panzergrenadiers coy or a Dutch or Canadian Mech coy would have to be played differently, else you are in trouble.

While doing so you come to appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of each formation.

I find that really cool. I´m learning a lot actually.

Also, when you think the Red side is getting Air support, trucks with loads of supplies and ZSU units, you can imagine how that spices things up.

The NATO module has the biggest amount of content in any module so far, be it in terms of new vehicles and units or in terms of single missions and campaigns. This way the CM:SF family will have a worthy closure.

-

[MikeyD]

CMSF just has a three month timeframe so of course we're fighting mostly regular military in a standup-up ground war, very little occupation conflict. CM:Afghanistan, on the other hand, will have a 12+ year timeframe(!) I think. That's a very different tactical experience with very different combatants. You can't exactly fault CMSF for not supplying the correct force mix for a war it was never designed to simulate.

[Paper Tiger]

No worries, you're definitely not being rude. I think the idea is that we'll get the full up-to-date Russian kit when CMSF2 comes out, hopefully sometime next year (optimist!). Also, coding any new models would require Charles, or the second programmer, to spend time away from coding the WW2 title. I think everybody would rather see the attention going on WW2 instead of more stuff for Syria.

[vincere]

There are definitely suicide car bombers (the good guys according to Chops) and different forms of IED's already in the game. Otherwise, there's plenty of mods that can change up at least the appearance of the uncons. I wanted some civilian squads in there too, but BFC doesn't want to go in that direction. They'd rather keep it military vs military.

Points taken. The use of Civie cover was used by Iraqi units early in the invasion. I also keep thinking back to the recent Israeli incursion to Lebonon, but the idea doesn't form fully.

For flavour they could have added international 'brigade' and throw in a few hardcore Chechen veterans.

[LongLeftFlank]

...Which Chechens can be represented at this very moment by Fanatic/Crack uncon Fighters with good leadership modifiers In fact there's even a spooky "ZZTop" beard mod out there.

[hoolaman]

There are definitely suicide car bombers (the good guys according to Chops) and different forms of IED's already in the game. Otherwise, there's plenty of mods that can change up at least the appearance of the uncons. I wanted some civilian squads in there too, but BFC doesn't want to go in that direction. They'd rather keep it military vs military.

I think "fighters" in the game are meant to be along the lines of a civilian who picked up his AK and put on a balaclava. They are supposed to be more difficult to spot in built up areas.

[ChrisND]

I think "fighters" in the game are meant to be along the lines of a civilian who picked up his AK and put on a balaclava. They are supposed to be more difficult to spot in built up areas.

That's the Combatants.

[Schmoly War]

Id be happy with a fortified cellar type structure

My favorite feature (accidental or not), is the survivability of infantry. Smashing buildings with heavy artillery and still having firing units from the rubble.

Real life application (no politics please):

"On September 17, 2007, Russian special forces launched an operation in the Dagestani settlement of Novy Sulak.[7] Two gunmen were blocked in a private residence by several hundred heavily-armed republican and federal MVD troops;[8] after the fighters refused to surrender, a 12-hour gun battle ensued during which the MVD troops were reinforced by the FSB Vympel special forces unit. According to the official information, only two troops were wounded in the firefight, but according to IWPR one was killed and ten were wounded.[9] RPO-A flamethrowers were used by the commandos to destroy the house, but the shooting only ceased at dawn of the next day, when the residence was crushed to the ground by an army tank and seven armoured personnel carriers.[10]

After examining the rubble, two bodies were recovered, identified as belonging to Rappani Khalilov and his deputy and right-hand man Nabi Nabiyev (also known as Abdurakhman);[5][11] Khalilov's death was later confirmed by the rebel sources."

[Dietrich]

My favorite feature (accidental or not), is the survivability of infantry. Smashing buildings with heavy artillery and still having firing units from the rubble.

Ever dropped a GBU/JDAM on a building and taken fire therefrom afterward? Me neither. =P

"On September 17, 2007, Russian special forces launched an operation in the Dagestani settlement of Novy Sulak....

Khalilov and Nabiyev probably knew just how to take cover within the building to minimize the effects of the multiple rockets fired at/into the building.

Reminds me of the various and numerous handful-of-men-tying-down-an-entire-company-for-hours incidents that went down in Operation Barbarossa.

If it were a warzone, I suppose those "several hundred heavily-armed troops" would have just called in a KAB-500KR on the building and then moved on. Then again, if it were an actual warzone, I suppose Khalilov and Nabiyev wouldn't have hung around to get cornered.

[Schmoly War]

Ever dropped a GBU/JDAM on a building and taken fire therefrom afterward? Me neither. =P

Khalilov and Nabiyev probably knew just how to take cover within the building to minimize the effects of the multiple rockets fired at/into the building.

Reminds me of the various and numerous handful-of-men-tying-down-an-entire-company-for-hours incidents that went down in Operation Barbarossa.

If it were a warzone, I suppose those "several hundred heavily-armed troops" would have just called in a KAB-500KR on the building and then moved on. Then again, if it were an actual warzone, I suppose Khalilov and Nabiyev wouldn't have hung around to get cornered.

I guess you could be right.

However, what the military calls "micro terrain" is probably a major contributor to expenditure of alot of very heavy ordnance.

There are stories of people surviving at least 500 pound bombs on their positions.

01:30 mark here: http://fora.tv/2010/05/25/Uncommon_Knowledge_Sebastian_Junger

Excerpt from article on the attack on Komsomolskoye:

"The Chechens must have prepared the town well in advance, however, since Russian servicemen later described every house as a pillbox. Beneath almost every building, there was a two-level cellar with strong ceilings. These strongpoints were linked by underground communications trenches (or tunnels), with covered earth and timber firing points in the back yards and at select crossroads".

Yes so staying mobile between the strongpoints is probably key.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Fighting+in+a+Fortified+Village-a066707582

[Apocalypse 31]

For me there are plenty of "bad guys" in CM:SF already...U.S. Forces and the British. I have really enjoyed playing Red vs. Blue.

Look at the way Blue forces have behaved around the world over the last 200 years. A Blue force was the only one to have ever actually used nuclear weapons, and they were dropped on two very large civilian populations.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and as we all know, the masses are conditioned by propoganda regarding these two terms.

WOW! A real e-surgent!

Me thinks you've been hitting the peace pipe too hard.

Probably never met a service member or stepped foot in a dangerous part of the world...Thats fine. I've scooped out plenty of civilian bodies from the Tigris river that your beloved 'freedom fighters' killed for working with the Americans to help improve their country.

[Chops]

Just an observation, but anyone that uses their military rank on a computer games forum is obviously a REMF and should be immediately fragged by their troops. One who is of this caliber and mentality is certainly a danger to himself/herself and anyone else near him/her in a combat zone....you know, just sayin'.

Cpl Mike, so why is Iraq a dangerous part of the world? It didn't seem that dangerous when Don Rumsfeld was over in Baghdad shaking hands with Saadam in 1983. It wouldn't have anything to do with a bunch of foreigners invading, destroying, and occupying their country now would it?

The premise of CM:SF was that Syria supported the use of radioactive weapons (dirty bombs) by various groups, and as a result was invaded by NATO. Isn't that why U.S. forces are in Iraq, to locate WMD's? How's that search going? It is my understanding that the only radioactive weapons that have been found are those owned by the U.S. and other Western nations in the form of depleted uranium weapons? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I am confused, I thought blue forces are there to find WMD's and now you are telling me that you are there to improve their country? I must have missed the memo; when did they ask us to come over and help out?