hellfish Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 So I figure now that we know the setting and general outline on CM:SF some of you people who have never had a gaming life past 1945 ( ) might want some info about what we might encounter in CM:SF. Since I don't have CM:SF nor do Steve and Charles whisper secrets in my ear, please don't take this as gospel. I'm making educated guesses here. I'll start off with the Syrian vehicles and weapon systems. Globalsecurity.org has a good idea of what Syria has got right now. We'll start off with everyone's favorite: the Tanks! T-55 Good for: Infantry support in close terrain Similar WWII vehicle: PzIVD Notes: While once one of the best main battle tanks around, the T-55 isn't terribly useful against an M-1 tank. It's got a 100mm gun, minimal fire control and relatively light armor. There have been reports that the 25mm cannon on a Bradley infantry fighting vehicle have taken out T-55s. It's best used to support infantry with HE and machinegun fire or to take out lighter armor (M113s, Strykers, Bradleys) at close range. It doesn't stand much of a chance against a modern main battletank or in open terrain. Picture: T-62 Good for: Infantry support Similar WWII vehicle: PzIVF2 Notes: Once a premier tank, the T-62 is now showing it's age. Equipped with a 115mm gun and moderate armor, it might be useful against tanks in close terran and could possibly get a lucky side shot on an M-1. There are reports of T-62s killing at least two Israeli Merkava tanks in Lebanon. You'd probably best want to use it like the T-55 - infantry support in close terrain. Picture: T-72 Good for: Main Battle Tank Similar WWII vehicle: T-34/85 Notes: Good all around tank. Not to be confused with the Iraqi's locally manufactured Asad Babyl T-72, the Syrians are running around in later-model Soviet export tanks that are better protected than their Iraqi counterparts. While they still probably won't last long against M-1s in open desert warfare, it is possible for them to get a frontal kill on an M-1 at close range, especially if equipped with modern ammo. These tanks might also be equipped with ERA or other active/passive protection systems. Picture: T-80 Good for: Main Battle Tank Similar WWII vehicle: JS-2 Notes: The last Soviet-era main battle tank. Syria is rumored to have purchased about 300 of these, though I've read conflicting reports about this (they have, they haven't, etc.). Think of this as a useful T-72. Equipped with modern fire control, good armor, and with a 125mm main gun capable of firing AT-10 antitank missiles. Probably the only tank capable of going toe-to-toe with an M-1 and, if not winning, surviving. Picture: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 APCs and IFVs BRDM-2 Good for: Recon Similar WWII vehicle: PSW 222 Notes: A small recon vehicle capable of carrying 4-6 dismounted infantry. Equipped with a 14.5mm and 7.62mm machinegun and minimal armor. Picture: BTR-60 Good for: Armored personnel transport Similar WWII vehicle: M3 halftrack Notes: Giant boat of a vehicle. Can carry twelve dismounts in addition to the crew of 2. Same armament as BRDM-2. Vulnerable to nearly anything - including small arms fire, shell fragments and evil looks from passing camels. Picture: BMP-1 Good for: Infantry fighting vehicle Similar WWII vehicle: SdKfz 251/9 Notes: World's first dedicated infantry fighting vehicle. Has very low velocity 73mm gun used mostly for providing HE fires, a 7.62mm coax and either ancient AT-3 or slightly more modern AT-5 anti-tank missiles. Infantry also have weapons ports to fire out with. Armor is very weak - the vehicle has aluminum/magnesium armor and the rear troop doors double as fuel tanks. Vulnerable to small arms and shell fragmets, burns very easily. Picture: BMP-2 Good for: Infantry fighting vehicle Similar WWII vehicle: SdKfz 251/10 Notes: More recent version of the BMP-1. Has 30mm autocannon, larger two-man turret and AT-4, AT-5, or AT-6 antitank missile. Still not very well protected. Picture: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Opening Music ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Thanks FF. Your one post is more useful than the entire five pages (and counting) of the "Who's disappointed" thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 GREAT post thanks for the thread! VERY informative so what's the REAL story ??? in the game in 2007 do the Syrian have the T80? Or something better? T80 Notes: The last Soviet-era main battle tank. Syria is rumored to have purchased about 300 of these, though I've read conflicting reports about this (they have, they haven't, etc.) I sure hope the game will give the OPFOR some "punch" with the rumoured 300 T80's he he -tom w PS please feel free to post your idea's for US forces and their WW II comparsions.... Thanks. [ October 08, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi Guys, I posted this to another thread but thought I would stick it here as its on topic... Although much of Syrias equipment is older they have a hell of a lot of it. They have also been making some significant attempts to upgrade in the last few years. Some examples of this including the purchase of a considerable number of Kornet-E ATGM's (this one is going to cause the US player some nightmares!), the upgade of a reasonable number of T-55's with Kontankt-5 ERA, a new battlistic systems and a 125mm gun (capable of also firing ATGM's) and they are currently upgrading a bunch of their T-72's through an Italian company including new armor, computers, thermal gear and ability to fire the 9K119 Reflecks ATGM. They had also recently purchased a bunch of night vision gear from a British source (oops!). The T-80 is a little more tricky as there is so much conflicting info as to weather its in service with the Syrians or not. We need to look into it further. Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 hey... OK ... just for the heck of it lets stay by LATE 2007 they have some T80's to make things interesting!!! OK? -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagleboz Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Agreed, very good work Fytinghellfish! Gets me even more excited about trying something outside of the WW2 box I seem to sit in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 I'll expand some more later on - like small arms, ATGMs, US and allied vehicles and whatnot... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 According to the 'Globalsecurity.com' link hellfish included with his kick-ass post, the Syrians are estimated to have some 4000 ATGW! That's more then enough to rattle any would-be gung ho M1A1 commanders. Even though 3000 of those are aging Saggers, there are also some 800 Kornets. This is what the same site had to say about their use in GW2: During the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom, US troops encountered an unanticipated, and formidable, weapon in the Iraqi arsenal -- Russian-built Kornet antitank missiles. Iraqi soldiers used the wire-guided missile system against American tanks, but the US military previously did not know they possessed. It emerged as the Iraqis' most effective direct-fire weapon against U.S. armor in the desert of southern Iraq. Iraqi commandos traveling in three-man teams dressed in black civilian robes and riding in Nissan pickup trucks moved against the flanks of columns of armor from the US Army's 3rd Infantry Division and launched broadside attacks from several kilometers away using the system. Those attacks had disabled at least two Abrahms tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war. US military intelligence officials were extremely interested in capturing one of the missiles intact. They also instructed American soldiers who destroy one of the Kornet launchers to save the remains of the system for close inspection. Also, the Syrians have 200 German-made Milans. [ October 08, 2005, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Ivan Drago ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Double Posting Oopsie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 As cool as armor on armor engagements are, the big empahsis of CMx2 is small team combined arms warfare. Even a few motivated bad guys with light weapons can be a formitable foe. Look at Falujah for example. Iraq is currently, and has been for some time, a Counter Insurgency operation. We are not simulating that. We're simulating more intensive combat than the average daily situation you read about in Iraq. However, for 2 years the average US casualties have been around 1.5% KIA and roughly 17% WIA. In CM:SF terms this means that the US player, who knows what he is doing, is still likely to lose roughly 20% of the soldiers he started out with. A player that still has a lot to learn could lose that in one scenario. CM:SF will not be a cakewalk game even without strong OPFOR armor and tons of friendly support, even for well experienced players. If it is a cakewalk then we, as designers, have utterly failed to simulate realistic modern combat. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Will there be simulation of the amputations, vehicle accidents, friendly fire and suicides? I think about 50% of casualties are from accidents 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPK Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Will there be livestock? I wish to scatter goats... I have played both WW2 and Modern eras (using microarmor and sand tables)and I think we're all in for a treat: I also think that modern weapons systems and tactics will be less of a shock to good CM players than some people think... We can look forward to: Helicopters...much more vulnerable than popularly supposed, they can still be very effective if used properly... New infantry types, both squads and teams, some with very powerful weapons... A great variety of artillery- and air- delivered ordnance... Fighting in dust, smoke, or at night, and still being able to see... etc etc etc Looking forward to it... in the meantime we can talk Modern... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overman_XXX Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Good original post. However, I remain perplexed. Does the Syrian army realistically hope to contend with the US forces by fielding a couple hundred 1:72 scale T-55s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalgiris 1410 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Thanx for the savoury pics and info fytinghellfish, I'm not much up on modern equipment really, this is all now looking a bit more interesting than I had thought that it might be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAI Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Steve should thank you fytinghellfish for dragging more WWII fans to a more futuristic mind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Time for a deluge of relevant websites, methinks. FAS Wargaming site - quite a comprehensive list of modern armour levels Marines doctrinal web page US army field manuals in here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkin Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Excellent post fytinghellfish, I might just learn something from this edition of Combat Mission too . //Salkin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmavis Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Please, note the flag in the background of the BTR-60 photo and menorah in the T-72 and BMP-1 photos. Have fun playing as the Syrians! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Here is an excellent link to photos from the Recon Platoon of 1-24th Infantry: http://www.deucefourrecon.com/gallery/ Gives an excellent, up close look at Strykers and a little bit about the type of environment you will see in CM:SF. I say little bit because even the Mosul area of Iraq isn't quite like the bulk of Syria in terms of terrain. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exploding Monkey Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Will our Strykers come equipped with the M279 candy mortar? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vetacon Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Awesome post fytinghellfish. Looks like there'll be some interesting match ups. I'm a WWII man and am probably more excited about the second release, but still I can't wait to get my hands on this game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 This was raised in another thread, so I'll bring it up here. When the eventual "WW II Mod" is made for CM:SF, what vehicles will the LAV/Stryker, Humvee, or T-72 be best suited to portraying in the Western Desert circa 1942? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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