How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Beleg85]

Reports start to appear that at least some Ukrainian troops get encircled at Zolotye salient- yesterday some of them still repelled frontal Russian attacks while their collegues managed to sneak through. We are witnessing here well executed fighting reatreat or potentially second (smaller) Ilovaysk, depending on how many troops are trapped inside. We will probably know in several days.

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-22-23-june-2022-5cbd84929b2e

(also, interesting link there to interview with Serbian who fights for separs, claiming they are executing Ukrainian artillerymen on the spot; perhaps some Serbian speakers could tranlsate his exact phrase?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=lu-AQ3XzZis&feature=emb_title

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Beleg85

[Grigb]

1 hour ago, kraze said:

Pretty sure that's just an excuse to invade other countries and steal stuff. No asshole ever wants to admit that he's an asshole, while acting just like one.

It is an excuse. But the thing is they believe in it.  

 

1 hour ago, kraze said:

This "under siege mentality" argument doesn't work anymore after putin basically proclaimed himself the new emperor and that all wars he started are the wars of "returning our land". It's not like anyone in Russia ever thought about their immediate neighbors differently before. Everyone and everything was always 'theirs'.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas. They complement each other. RU people under siege that's why they need to return all land that was stolen from them by heinous foreigners to form one big empire that can protect all RU people. You cannot explain to RU that empire and imperialism is bad because for them it is the foundation of their security against heinous foreigners. They fight to ensure survival of RU race. For that they need their Lebensraum. 

Same old crap we all heard before.

 

 

 

[Taranis]

"Soldiers from the 126th Territorial Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces take part in training exercises in the Odessa region, Ukraine, on June 22, 2022. OLEKSANDR GIMANOV / AFP"

[Aragorn2002]

I wonder NATO can't to do more to bind Russian troops to other areas than the Ukraine by more actions like at Kaliningrad, more exercises, more intrusions into Russian airspace, more sabotage by 'partisans' etc. Paranoid as the Russians are this will perhaps force them to send more units and material to their borders with NATO countries. There is a risk at escalation, but when done in a smart way it might help Ukraine.

[danfrodo]

Folks are calling Kaliningrad a blockade.  My understanding is that it is not a blockage.  Lithuania simply refuses to allow cross border traffic.  Am I correct in this assertion?

And I sure would like to see more UKR pressure on the Popasne & Izyum salients.  As relatively weak as RU is offensively, seems UKR can't (choosing not to?) do any better yet.

[Beleg85]

13 minutes ago, danfrodo said:

Folks are calling Kaliningrad a blockade.  My understanding is that it is not a blockage.  Lithuania simply refuses to allow cross border traffic.  Am I correct in this assertion?

Nope, they only execute policies introduced 2-3 months ago by EU with time to implement it, blocking several strategic goods. Maybe Lithuanian guards are "extra" cautious checking some cars, but that would be all.

All Russian histeria around it comes from the fact Russians didn't plan long war, so now population in Kaliningrad may be slowly cut out of some luxury stuff and EU can put econominc pressure on enclave.

Additionally Lithuanians have enough of Russian threats in recent weeks. West start to take strategic initiative, but still play rather softball.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Beleg85

[Battlefront.com]

1 hour ago, Grigb said:

It is an excuse. But the thing is they believe in it.

The more I study Human behavior the less variations I see in patterns.

The mentality of the "average" Russian is not all that different than someone in a rather unhealthy religious/social cult.  One of the key components of a cult is to make its members feel that they are special, but the most important one is to make them believe that everybody else wants to take that away from them.  This is something that the cult members must emphasize with each other whenever they have discussions relating to the "outside" world. 

Members are deliberately conditioned to distrust non-believers and to denounce any of their own who waiver in their beliefs because, in their view, such contact itself is a threat.  There is little to no room for dissent within the peer group, which strengthens the distorted mentality.

One of the common outcomes of this false threat is taking an armed defensive posture.  It is not a coincidence that many cults turn into armed camps over time.  Having paranoia a strong and central part of their world view really leaves them no other option.

The more people view Russian culture/mindset in terms of "cult", the easier it is to understand how they think.  If you understand how they think, you can anticipate how they will react.

Steve

[sburke]

15 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

The more people view Russian culture/mindset in terms of "cult", the easier it is to understand how they think.  If you understand how they think, you can anticipate how they will react.

Steve

Too bad they don't follow the example of Heaven's gate or Jim Jones and just put themselves out of our misery.

[Grigb]

20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

The more I study Human behavior the less variations I see in patterns...

The more people view Russian culture/mindset in terms of "cult", the easier it is to understand how they think.  If you understand how they think, you can anticipate how they will react.

Steve

I haven't thought about it as Cult, and it seems to be extremely accurate description. 

[billbindc]

 

 

[Vergeltungswaffe]

10 hours ago, Battlefront.com said:

Here's a treat.  I got to ask some questions from a friend who just spent 3 days and nights with a Ukrainian infantry company and the battalion recon platoon somewhere in the south.  He fielded questions from others and of those I am going to summarize the most relevant/interesting ones for us.

First, this unit is not a typical unit.  It started off as a TD unit fighting around Kyiv and after that the personnel decided they wanted to take it up a notch so they applied to become a special forces (SSO) unit and in May they obtained official status as such.  They are technically a Regiment, but in reality they are probably Battalion sized (this is my guess).

Here are some of the most interesting bits that I have simplified and reorganized a bit to make it an easier read for this thread:

Q: It seems that Ukrainians have fluid command and control.  Is this true?
A: With the qualification that SSO is not a standard UAF unit, yes, they are definitely decentralized.  Company CO receives generalized orders such as defend here, attack there, and so on. How to do all that was left totally up to him. Platoon commanders were extremely independent and free to open fire, position weapons and men, set up positions, as they saw best. I also so sergeants talking to company grade officers effectively as equals.

Q: Did you see combined arms operations as recognized in the West?
A: Yes. At the level I was at it was a couple of recon guys using two drones, a smart phone, and a tablet to figure out where the target was and feed its location into the firing system. As they explained it to me, if it was a serious target, the Company CO or the the battalion FDC would automatically push getting that target hit by artillery, of which several batteries from several brigades (all in range, theoretically) were on call in general support of fire missions. But since the targets that day were individual fighting positions, the company mortars dealt with it.

Q:  How does the Recon Platoon fit into combined arms?
A: I saw enlisted members of a recce platoon directly involved, in the field, in identifying a target, feeding that data into the system, and adjusting fires. It took them a couple of minutes to work out exactly right grid location they wanted because it was hard at some points to see into the woodline with the drones. The time lapse from first called shot to spotting round strike was less than a minute and at least half of that was round flight.

Q: The front is long and thinly manned.  Do they do a lot of missions behind the lines?

A: The unit I was with doesn’t normally do behind-the-lines missions. They’re not demolitions experts or professional partisans, they’re special mission light infantry. They might get picked to do some kind of infiltration assault, but for the most part the closest they get to behind-the-lines is ground patrols in the gray zone, and every once in a long while sneaking up on a Russian position.

Q:  Do they conduct night ops?
A:  I saw video of and eventually talked with a couple of participants in a 6-man night patrol. They had hand-held thermals, they went pretty deep (800 m.) beyond friendly lines, they got engaged and they broke contact, and they brought back a casualty. It was very clear from the company CO that active, aggressive patrolling is something he wants done and that the battalion is doing across its front. It’s considered very dangerous work so they don’t seem to go out unless every meter of the patrol route is pre-screened by drones. (caveats - this is a dedicated recon unit within a SSO formation, so not necessarily typical).

Q: What sort of drones were in use and how were they used?
A: They were using cheapo Chinese drones. I remember Mavis was one of the manufacturers. They have access to drone support from higher echelons but it’s not always available and for their tactical needs they only need to fly out a couple of kilometers, maximum. They seemed to operate a pair of drones in the air at a time, one to poke around literally between tree branches, and a second to overwatch. Their SOP is constant surveillance so they continually rotate drones for battery changes.

Q: What were your general impressions of the quality of the soldiers you saw?
A:  Skill levels are, in general high, but likely not necessarily recognizable as professionals trained in peacetime as this is a mobilized unit in time of war. I saw very credible fighting positions dug nice and deep. I saw crew-served weapons in logical locations, rational fields of fire, and AT weapons sensibly piled up. I saw a recce platoon scour a woodline with drones meter by meter and spend the better part of an hour reviewing footage to try and figure out what was inside. I saw soldiers call the company commander by his first name and I saw food and water piled pretty haphazardly, but the M2 Browning was in perfect condition and the Company CO considered it his single most powerful weapon.  Soldiers were lax about wearing body armor during the day as it is hot and Russians tended to shell in the mornings.

Uniforms were clean and before eating people washed their hands. In the recce platoon there was lots of after market add ons and field items, a couple of guys looked very special forces and high end. In the line platoons, less so. Physical fitness, lean and healthy-looking. Only a few guys looked to be in their latter 30s or older. No baby faces. Not built up and muscular like you see with some NATO units who spend a lot of time on base lifting weights.

The company CO was young but he knew his business and tactics, and he relied a lot on senior soldiers - basically, older guys functioning like sergeants - to keep things running. Systems functioned, vehicles came and went, stuff went in and out of the supply room, recon data was crunched and plans made, and the company CO's job was basically oversight and final decision. Attitude was they were there to do their jobs and they did them without micromanagement.

Q: How is their morale holding up?

A: Morale seemed fine to me. Everyone is sure Ukraine is going to win, it’s just a question of how long it will take. The enemy is dangerous but it is very possible to beat him, even easy a lot of the time. Everyone is in the same boat: everyone has relatives or friends who were or are in occupied territory, or had to evacuate, or had home or property damaged by the Russians. It’s absolutely clear what they’re fighting for. Some griping about how higher command is stupid, but you can’t have an army without that. The common complaint was there’s just not enough artillery ammunition to kill the Russians when they find them.

 

Q:  Do personnel get leave or R&R?
A: definite “no”. There’s no rule against asking for leave but basically no one asks because units are short-handed and it’s not like this is training, this is a war and another man off the line is help to the Russians. So no one asks. The company CO told me guys mostly got breaks either when the unit is in a quiet sector and they’re just in passive defense, and then it’s possible to rotate say a platoon at a time back to battalion or regiment for showers and so forth, or, another new weapons system is in the pipeline and soldiers get pulled off the line to go to training. It is a pretty sustainable approach as long as you are not trying to beat the other guy with high-intensity warfare.

Q:  What's going on with Ukrainian reinforcements/replacements?  There's so many stated to be under arms, but it doesn't appear that they are at the front in huge numbers.  Where are they?
A: Either getting trained or more likely waiting for a training slot. The army has a replacements system but it’s priority-driven and infantry isn’t a training priority with artillery and crew-served weapons operators being much more badly needed, and also, the army is trying hard to pool enough replacement to build new brigades rather than feed replacements into the ones that exist. It’s basically down to limited training capacity, everyone says there are enough volunteers. But the Ukrainian army is trying pretty hard not to send untrained people into combat. TD units getting into big fights is something they want less, not more of.

 

Q: How do they think the summer's fighting will go?  Do they expect to just hold on, or do they think they'll attack in a significant way?
A: The general opinion is offensive possibilities depend on availability of heavy weapons and ammunition, particularly artillery. The key to any serious offensive is suppressing and destroying the RF artillery. Everyone from private to company commander pointed out to me that the Russians have about 3-5 times more artillery and 8-15 times more artillery ammunition.

They seemed absolutely confident that if the RF artillery could be dealt with, the UAF would advance and probably the RF infantry would break apart. By that same token, pretty much everyone I talked to seemed quite sure UAF human wave attacks to gain ground would be idiotic, and UAF high command would never order it.

All in all my impression was this was a unit that would fight and take casualties for some time, and the specialists (mortar, recce, crew-served) were probably at least as competent as NATO counterparts, and very likely more so because they’ve got a ton of live ammo experience. But they were so spread out and the command pressure so limited, that I wonder if they could maneuver as a single company. I have no proof but I guess they would need to practice quite a bit before maneuvering as part of a battalion.

 

Really enjoyed this.

Nothing like hearing it from the horse's mouth.

[JonS]

5 hours ago, The_Capt said:

Yes it is.

combined arms – The synchronized and simultaneous application of arms to achieve an effect greater than if
each arm was used separately or sequentially. (ADP 3-0)
combined arms team – (DOD) The full integration and application of two or more arms or elements of one Service into an operation. (JP 3-18) Referenced in ATP 3-01.81.

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN31809-FM_1-02.1-000-WEB-1.pdf
 

Further it is also the more likely 21st century version - infantry, unmanned systems and indirect fires.

Hmm. I don’t really want to play paper, scissors, doctrine, but I’m not seeing it. There is no simultaneous  - or even sequential - effects being applied here. The Russians receive some artillery fire, and that’s it. There is no tactical dilemma for them to solve being described - they just have to avoid a bit of artillery fire then they can go back to having a snooze or a brew or whatever. It’s basically just harassing fire, or maybe immediate neutralisation but with no follow up.

In terms of a 21st Century version of anything, it seems like just a slightly modern take on All-Arms Call-For-Fire: recce dudes with a (tres moderne) pair of binos called in a few rounds on a target of opportunity, then went home. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by JonS

[dan/california]

20 hours ago, JonS said:

It's not just tracks vs. wheels. All designs are trade offs.

When NZ first went to Vietnam they took L5 pack howitzers. Lovely little guns that are easy to move by road or air, easy to dig in, and it can even be broken down and stowed inside an M113. It was obviously the correct choice for a nice little bush war in a jungle country with limited infrastructure.

Within a year they'd been replaced by M101A1s. The L5s were literally falling apart because they just weren't designed to cope with heavy rates of fire day after day after day. The far less moveable M101, on the other hand, was basically bulletproof and just kept on going, like the energizer bunny.

 

7 hours ago, Huba said:

TBH I think this is almost exactly what will happen there, when it will be clear Russia lost the war.

All of the above points out how different the world is when people just aren't scared of the Russian army. The world can be a MUCH better place for decades if the The West can hold its nerve, triple the aid, and conclusively win this war. Every piece of hardware on the planet need to be headed to Ukraine of Taiwan. Anybody else that misbehaves can be dealt with after the Russian army in Ukraine is smoking wreckage and sunflower fertilizer. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by dan/california
Edit, first quote above is the wrong one , was supposed to be Grigb post about Murz. Sorry...

[cesmonkey]

Some US senators are urging Defense Secretary Austin to speed up the delivery of more HIMARS systems to Ukraine.  They seem to be getting a little frustrated with the Biden Administrations slow pace.

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-floor-portman-highlights-ukrainian-victory-black-sea-sheds-light

At this crucial time in the battle for freedom, democracy, and the ability for countries to decide their own future, America cannot afford to be tentative.

[Huba]

1 hour ago, billbindc said:

 

 

I love the choice of words here,talking about 'economic attack' is a word short of saying loudly that we are, in fact, at war. Sooner everyone is willing too look the truth in the face, and act upon it, the better for everyone. 

And now for some war porn:

 

[Suleyman]

Tochkas can do some massive damage if used right

[The_Capt]

1 hour ago, JonS said:

Hmm. I don’t really want to play paper, scissors, doctrine, but I’m not seeing it. There is no simultaneous  - or even sequential - effects being applied here. The Russians receive some artillery fire, and that’s it. There is no tactical dilemma for them to solve being described - they just have to avoid a bit of artillery fire then they can go back to having a snooze or a brew or whatever. It’s basically just harassing fire, or maybe immediate neutralisation but with no follow up.

In terms of a 21st Century version of anything, it seems like just a slightly modern take on All-Arms Call-For-Fire: recce dudes with a (tres moderne) pair of binos called in a few rounds on a target of opportunity, then went home. 

Doctrine is doctrine - but if you want to get into it...

If you look past the tactical vignette the dilemma is the same as it has been for ages; however, how it is delivered is different.  Those "recce dudes" now have eyes in the sky that stretch for kms in all directions and are linked to quick response (and pretty accurate) indirect fire.  So the Russian forces can either stay dispersed and hidden - and have their combat power dislocated and/or static.  Or they concentrate that combat power to manoeuvre, get spotted at much longer ranges and get hammered - Finding beats flanking.

Do that in enough locations across the Russian positions (and indications are that is exactly what the UA was doing - this account sounds very familiar), and now they can because "eyes", and you have attrition across the Russian system, which can (and perhaps did) cause collapse.  It is a form of attrition-to-manoeuvre, as opposed to the other way around, which we have been slavishly adhering to like a religion for years.

Infiltration - even if by UAVs - and attrition is not a "mere nuisance", over time it erodes the physical and moral elements of combat power (upscale it and you can strain the social as well).  Which means more rotations of units to and from the front, which leads to more friction.  

The only way out of the box appears to concentrate your mass to such a ridiculous extent that you overcome the artillery through sheer bloody-mindedness - a Zap Brannigan strategy if there ever was one.  It will gain you a few kms of ground on a narrow front but you will pay dearly for it.  The force ratios the Russian are having to employ to do this are crazy - e.g. Severodonetsk - 900 guns to cover a 30 km frontage is just insane...and that got them to inching.  The old MRD had, by my count, about 216 tubes and was expected to cover off 20 kms ( see: https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf, pg 4-39, and: https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf, pg 5-19).  Even with a second MRD in depth, that is about double the gun density for frontage being employed compared to what the Soviets had planned on to invade West Germany. 

So What?  Well if that is what it takes to create enough mass to attack in a box while staying secure from those "nuisances", then I would say that the combined arms tactics being described are pretty damned effective.

Edited June 23, 2022 by The_Capt

[dan/california]

4 minutes ago, The_Capt said:

Doctrine is doctrine - but if you want to get into it...

If you look past the tactical vignette the dilemma is the same as it has been for ages; however, how it is delivered is different.  Those "recce dudes" now have eyes in the sky that stretch for kms in all directions and are linked to quick response (and pretty accurate) indirect fire.  So the Russian forces can either stay dispersed and hidden - and have their combat power dislocated and/or static.  Or they concentrate that combat power to manoeuvre, get spotted at much longer ranges and get hammered - Finding beats flanking.

Do that in enough locations across the Russian positions (and indications are that is exactly what the UA was doing - this account sounds very familiar), and now they can because "eyes", and you have attrition across the Russian system, which can (and perhaps did) cause collapse.  It is a form of attrition-to-manoeuvre, as opposed to the other way around, which we have been slavishly adhering to like a religion for years.

Infiltration - even if by UAVs - and attrition is not a "mere nuisance", over time it erodes the physical and moral elements of combat power (upscale it and you can strain the social as well).  Which means more rotations of units to and from the front, which leads to more friction.  

The only way out of the box appears to concentrate you mass to such a ridiculous extent that you overcome the artillery through sheer bloody-mindedness - a Zap Brannigan strategy if there ever was one.  It will gain you a few kms of ground on a narrow front but you will pay dearly for it.  The force ratios the Russian are having to employ to do this are crazy - e.g. Severodonetsk - 900 guns to cover a 30 km frontage is just insane...and that got them to inching.  The old MRD had, by my count, about 216 tubes and was expected to cover off 20 kms ( see: https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf, pg 4-39, and: https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf, pg 5-19).  Even with a second MRD in depth that is about double the gun density the Soviets had planned on to invade West Germany. 

So What?  Well if that is what it takes to create enough mass to attack in a box while staying secure from those "nuisances", then I would say that the combined arms tactics being described are pretty damned effective.

Out of likes, so I will say great post. Since I have started typing I will add that Ukrainian General Staff are bloody minded geniuses, they have played a near perfect hand with the forces they have. The unit above is being used to the very best of it its capabilities, not pushed to do something it can't and suffer massive casualties. I am absolutely certain that with enough aid to to change mix and balance of forces the the Ukrainian General Staff will KEEP being brilliant with new capabilities.

[Grigb]

While @haiduk is way - there are rumors that RU throwed freshly made reserve unit from Kantemir division at Izum. It got hit very hard. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Grigb

[Raptor341]

@Battlefront.com

You mentioned sending a good amount of money over for Ukrainian aid - - I have as well, or at least what I can. What would be your official thoughts on running a small donation campaign on this forum/thread for all of the supporters here? I know that I would like to contribute and donation match to a set amount to add something to it.
 

GiveButter.com might be a service to use to collect the funds before sending them onward. As far as the goal I was going to use the National Bank of Ukraine Special Account for the Ukrainian Army, unless the group suggested anything more pressing. 
 

As I don’t want to clutter the thread too much with this I thought I’d get your approval first.

Thoughts?

Keep em supplied! 

[Battlefront.com]

2 hours ago, billbindc said:

 

 

FINALLY, it seems they get it.  Russia did some of this sort of thing after Georgia and after the 2014 invasion, but it was quickly forgotten.  It is nice to see some referring to it for what it is... an attack.

Russia really doesn't understand how limited it's ability to respond is.  You'd think THEY would know that.  After the raft of sanctions put against them in 2014 Russia was looking for a way to put the hurt on Europe.  One of the only ones they came up with was "fine, we won't buy your food products".  That hurt Russia way more than it hurt Europe.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

2 minutes ago, Raptor341 said:

@Battlefront.com

You mentioned sending a good amount of money over for Ukrainian aid - - I have as well, or at least what I can. What would be your official thoughts on running a small donation campaign on this forum/thread for all of the supporters here? I know that I would like to contribute and donation match to a set amount to add something to it.
 

GiveButter.com might be a service to use to collect the funds before sending them onward. As far as the goal I was going to use the National Bank of Ukraine Special Account for the Ukrainian Army, unless the group suggested anything more pressing. 
 

As I don’t want to clutter the thread too much with this I thought I’d get your approval first.

Thoughts?

Keep em supplied! 

Good thought!  I've also pondered it. 

Honestly, I think there are so many good organizations out there where you know your money will be put to immediate and effective use, I just suggest individuals donate to them.  I've funded everything from body armor to helping a cat café.  Quite a spread   The big charity in Poland I gave money to was a bit tricky because they only take bank transfers and that is difficult and expensive for us non-Europeans.  I PayPal'd money to a Polish friend who then wired it to them.

Here's a suggestion.  Someone on this Forum could maintain a list of vetted aid organizations and how to connect with them.  That person could upload it as a document somewhere and put a link to it in their Forum sigline.  People interested in helping out, but not knowing where, can download it and make their own donations.  If there's a payment transfer complication, like my Polish example, then they could PM one of our members here and see if someone can help facilitate the transaction.

Steve

[Haiduk]

Ukrainian civil volunteers funds  are coming to new heights

Serhiy Prytula fund, one of largest in Ukraine after Back ad Alive, after successfull gathering money for strike version of PD-2 UAV, now accumulating donates for 3 TB2 Bayraktars. There was an objective to crowdfund 15 millions$ USD within a week, but un first day it's managed to get 10,4 millions $. Most bigger donate - 5 millions UAH (141000 USD), though as Prytula write, most donates is 100-500 UAH

If somebody want to join, here is about international payments to the fund: https://prytulafoundation.org/en/home/support_page

 

Meanwhile, Taras Chmut (on the left in the photo), former marine and now the head of Back-and-Alive fund visited USA and met with congressman (and officer) Adam Kinzinger. It's very interesting, maybe some equipment will go to Ukraine through Back-and-Alive, Chmut made some hints thay this can be even several AH-6 light combat helicopters for SOF.    

So, many people joke that soon we will crowdfund for squadron of F-35 and USA will promote Taras Chmut as future Minister of defense )

Indeed both theese funds turned out in powerful supply hubs with own logistic and storages and works for inceasing effectiveness of whole units on company and battalion level. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Haiduk

[Battlefront.com]

52 minutes ago, The_Capt said:

Doctrine is doctrine - but if you want to get into it...

...

So What?  Well if that is what it takes to create enough mass to attack in a box while staying secure from those "nuisances", then I would say that the combined arms tactics being described are pretty damned effective.

I get what JonS is saying, though, which is that the examples are a fairly narrow slice of the total "combined arms" spectrum.  For the most part recon and artillery in support of entrenched infantry with few heavy weapons.

What is more important than the specifics is the approach.  What I saw in these answers (and a couple semi-redundant ones I didn't post) is that this specific unit, at least, has the fundamentals of good combined arms working very well.  By that I mean coordinating activities according to SOPs.

In one of the examples there was a "tip of the iceberg" description of how they handle fire support.  Stuff we in the West might take for granted is something that the old Soviet system didn't do well or even allow for.  Specifically this:

Quote

As they explained it to me, if it was a serious target, the Company CO or the the battalion FDC would automatically push getting that target hit by artillery, of which several batteries from several brigades (all in range, theoretically) were on call in general support of fire missions. But since the targets that day were individual fighting positions, the company mortars dealt with it.

This has a TON of insights right there.  There are a host of flexible SOPs being maintained by at least 4 levels of command here (Battalion FDC is often getting fire support from outside of the Regiment.  That was another tidbit I didn't post).  This functions so well that they can have a round coming down on target within a minute of putting the call in.  IMPOSSIBLE under the Soviet system and, according to the Russians themselves, not something the Russians are able to do.

This involves a lot of trust and faith in each other.  From what we've seen of Russian forces it's the exact opposite there.  I remember an early intercept where someone was trying to get artillery support and it was obviously tied up by poor SOPs or poor execution (likely both).

Out of all the information that came from those answers, this is the one that made me the happiest.

Oh, and this isn't the only example we've seen here in this forum.  Y'all might remember a certain artillery strike on a certain bridgehead that I might have mentioned   That was a clear example of Ukraine having a fundamentally Western approach to fighting a war.

Steve

[Huba]

No surprises here, but great that it is now official. Welcome to the club!

Edit: ooo, it looks Georgia received a candidate status too! They have a lot of problems lately (owing to the same pr**k from the Kremlin), but granting them candidate status anyway is an example of forward thinking rare in this times, hats off!

Edit2: eh, Georgia didn't receive a formal candidate status. It is understandable, of course, if a little bit off-putting. Still including GE in the process is a big middle finger to Putin, and a signal to GE that getting their s**t together will be really beneficial.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Huba