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How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?


Probus

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So are there any updated estimates of RU force density?  

A quick search puts the last estimate at April 23 with an average of 250 men/km.  I didn't trace it all the way back, but from the discussion I'm assuming that's combat-capable and doesn't include support personnel.  That's two companies per km of front.  Maybe a little lighter where there are (or were) water obstacles, and heavier where there's a logistics hub in the path.  But if it's two companies per km, then the forward positions are/were maybe two platoons per km with a third in reserve near the front, and the same at the "main" line ~10 km back.  So the first "main" line of defense is possibly not manned any better than the first line, and may just be dug in better.  And can there be much between the main line and the Sea of Azov once the main line breaks?  Possibly in some areas, but RU just doesn't have enough forces overall, and they can't concentrate them without getting HIMARSed/Storm Shadowed.  

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9 hours ago, Haiduk said:

This was found in the tablet of Russian officer. TO&E of US Division-86 tank and motorized infantry battalions and the same units of Western Germany. Generals always prepare itself to wars of past %)

 

 

This is either repost, or second time such captured “intel” documents have been shown.

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1 hour ago, chrisl said:

So are there any updated estimates of RU force density?  

A quick search puts the last estimate at April 23 with an average of 250 men/km.  I didn't trace it all the way back, but from the discussion I'm assuming that's combat-capable and doesn't include support personnel.  That's two companies per km of front.  Maybe a little lighter where there are (or were) water obstacles, and heavier where there's a logistics hub in the path.  But if it's two companies per km, then the forward positions are/were maybe two platoons per km with a third in reserve near the front, and the same at the "main" line ~10 km back.  So the first "main" line of defense is possibly not manned any better than the first line, and may just be dug in better.  And can there be much between the main line and the Sea of Azov once the main line breaks?  Possibly in some areas, but RU just doesn't have enough forces overall, and they can't concentrate them without getting HIMARSed/Storm Shadowed.  

I remember doing the math wtih the little info we had and remember coming up with 2x Coy per KM.  My presumption is that the second line (main line) holds 50-70% of the entire force.

What I think the Russians are planning is to see where Ukraine is interested and move reserves to that sector, thus making the troop density higher than the 1+ company already in place.  That way they can maximize their density in the places that matter and not where Ukraine isn't investing heavily.

If this is accurate, I see three very big problems with this given what we think we know about the Ukrainian plans:

  1. Ukraine has a high degree of ability to interdict reinforcements moving around, slowing and causing degradation.
  2. Russia has very limited reserves in the area that aren't already committed somewhere else.  This means wherever they thicken the lines they thin it somewhere else.
  3. Ukraine has the skill and ability to hit Russia anywhere the lines are thin.  Last year Ukraine did this with the Kharkiv offensive when forces were drawn to Kherson.  This time there is no such singular large scale vulnerability, however several small areas seem to be very probable.  Bakhmut is already happening.  It seems Kreminna or Svatove appear on the menu, and of course the still active front around Donetsk City.

All speculation, of course, but it is based on what Ukraine has done in the past and appears to be doing so far.

Steve

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19 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

I remember doing the math wtih the little info we had and remember coming up with 2x Coy per KM.  My presumption is that the second line (main line) holds 50-70% of the entire force.

What I think the Russians are planning is to see where Ukraine is interested and move reserves to that sector, thus making the troop density higher than the 1+ company already in place.  That way they can maximize their density in the places that matter and not where Ukraine isn't investing heavily.

If this is accurate, I see three very big problems with this given what we think we know about the Ukrainian plans:

  1. Ukraine has a high degree of ability to interdict reinforcements moving around, slowing and causing degradation.
  2. Russia has very limited reserves in the area that aren't already committed somewhere else.  This means wherever they thicken the lines they thin it somewhere else.
  3. Ukraine has the skill and ability to hit Russia anywhere the lines are thin.  Last year Ukraine did this with the Kharkiv offensive when forces were drawn to Kherson.  This time there is no such singular large scale vulnerability, however several small areas seem to be very probable.  Bakhmut is already happening.  It seems Kreminna or Svatove appear on the menu, and of course the still active front around Donetsk City.

All speculation, of course, but it is based on what Ukraine has done in the past and appears to be doing so far.

Steve

I imagine that Ukraine has developed their plans based on all of those, combined with some confidence that they have better ISR (though multiple modes) than Russia and will be able to get rapid knowledge of where the RU lines are being thinned.  Given Ukraine's internal lines and knowledge that they don't have to worry about controlling the civilian population in any area they retake (except maybe pre Feb 24 LPR/DPR), they should be able create, identify, and exploit some weaker spots without having to play their hand through recon in force.

Edited by chrisl
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According to this story, some Hacktivist siphoned blockchain currency form FSB, SVR, and GRU accounts then donated the money to Ukraine.  I think someone posted a Tweet or something about this a little while ago, but this is a detailed account:

https://echonewshub.com/hacker-drains-russian-special-services-wallets-transfers-funds-to-ukraine/

Steve

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20 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

According to this story, some Hacktivist siphoned blockchain currency form FSB, SVR, and GRU accounts then donated the money to Ukraine.  I think someone posted a Tweet or something about this a little while ago, but this is a detailed account:

https://echonewshub.com/hacker-drains-russian-special-services-wallets-transfers-funds-to-ukraine/

Steve

yeah this is fairly old if the same story I posted a while back.

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52 minutes ago, Offshoot said:

Ukrainians in Storozheve after the Russians apparently withdrew, on foot

 

That looks like about a full platoon hoofing it out of Storozheve.  And from the maps a couple pages ago, that's the second village back from what was the front line not too long ago, so it's maybe a platoon per village as the UA works south.  That would leave another full company available at the main line, consistent with the earlier estimates of ~250/km.  

But it's nice to see video of them hiking back in a relatively disorderly withdrawal.  No fighting retreat, and they don't look like they're organized by squads.  And not waiting for vehicles to carry out their gear - just getting out of Dodge as fast as they can.  Maybe the video will encourage other Russian units to do the same.

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