sburke Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 be nice if it turns out we'd shipped a crapload of AD equipment in the last couple weeks under the radar.. pun intended. I'll dream tonight of Russian aircraft falling out of the sky in waves. I'd even trot out the old star wars meme "it's a trap!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) I suppose it could also be an RU ploy to see how many radar planes NATO puts in the air and which ones. But does RU have enough capability to detect them all the way across the Polish border? Edited February 17, 2023 by chrisl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinkin Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Battlefront.com said: No comment on what the impact might be. Perhaps of all the Russian armed forces the 'air force" might be the most loyal to the current or future authoritarian regimes. If they can't have any impact - tactical or higher - why put them in harms way? They are Putin's joker in the hole, he ain't got any aces. Either in the casino or in the air. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, chrisl said: . But does RU have enough capability to detect them all the way across the Polish border? Given that they'll be pumping enough microwave energy to cook a whale, I suspect the Russians will be able to detect them. The ew sniffers might be a trickier proposition though, assuming they're running silent and JUST sniffing Edited February 17, 2023 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, sburke said: be nice if it turns out we'd shipped a crapload of AD equipment in the last couple weeks under the radar.. Lets not forget all the RIM-7 Sea Sparrows delivered to Ukraine as reloads for their Buk launchers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 36 minutes ago, kevinkin said: Perhaps of all the Russian armed forces the 'air force" Like the Argentine Airforce the only professionals, and they will be like any other professional, dying for your country will be met with healthy skepticism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter from Prague Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Regarding Russia being even more radicalized in the future. As with other stuff, it seem the Ukrainians have already figured that out a while ago, and are just waiting for the West to realize (or stop lying to itself). Just listen to Zaluznyj (and also some Ukrainians in this very thread) talk about "after this war we need to be prepared for the next time Russian tries it". Things will never go back to normal again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Letter from Prague said: Things will never go back to normal again. I think their point is THIS is normal. The only way to change the behavior is to make sure they know they lost, and the days of imperial grandeur are over for good. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 The analogy of the Korean War is I think valid. It took around 25 years before relations with the West improved under Deng Xiaoping. It is the best we can hope for. In other words, don't hold your breath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, sburke said: I think their point is THIS is normal. The only way to change the behavior is to make sure they know they lost, and the days of imperial grandeur are over for good. Russia can't be changed. Period. It needs wars and enemies. It's all they have to believe in. Check this news for instance. Why would they do this? Because it makes them feel important. They will NEVER give up. https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2023/02/16/russia-to-lengthen-submarine-patrols-says-norwegian-intel-report/ Edited February 17, 2023 by Aragorn2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Butschi said: Always look on the bright side of life... With regard to Russia that's exactly what we should stop doing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor341 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 52 minutes ago, sburke said: I think their point is THIS is normal. The only way to change the behavior is to make sure they know they lost, and the days of imperial grandeur are over for good. 100% Defeat, Discredit, Disarm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Raptor341 said: 100% Defeat, Discredit, Disarm Edited Edited February 17, 2023 by Aragorn2002 Never mind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Six weeks to train a Ukrainian tanker for Leopard 2 tank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Close Combat 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej Zwolinski Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Apparently yesterday successful counterattacks were carried out by the UKR south of Bachmut. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) edit Edited February 17, 2023 by Ales Dvorak 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekai Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, DesertFox said: Close Combat WW1, we meet again Edited February 17, 2023 by Sekai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 52 minutes ago, DesertFox said: Close Combat Damn, WWI just with assault rifles. Guy used like 3 weapons during encounter and it seems he eliminated 1 enemy certainly +2 probably, on top of a vehicle in the background. Rambo. It seems they tried to storm the trenches but missed him and were flanked More Ukrainian brigades are being formed- 10 Feb. new 13th Jaeger Brigade started to be organized. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon052 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Beleg85 said: Damn, WWI just with assault rifles. Guy used like 3 weapons during encounter and it seems he eliminated 1 enemy certainly +2 probably, on top of a vehicle in the background. Rambo. It seems they tried to storm the trenches but missed him and were flanked More Ukrainian brigades are being formed- 10 Feb. new 13th Jaeger Brigade started to be organized. OMG. This is one of the most intense videos I have seen from the war. Not easy to see exactly what is going on. Is it russians storming the trenches (it seems so from the comments)? Where do you see a vehicle(which sec)? Everything is so fast, hard to see the details. The detonation at the start seems to be from a autocannon. Hope the guys did survive and not that the the videofootage was collected from their bodies. Edited February 17, 2023 by Anon052 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Anon052 said: Where do you see a vehicle(which sec)? It's right there at the very start, suppressing the trench, according to large, two sided flares - probably BMP2. And the guy most likely hits it too - because it stops firing. Edited February 17, 2023 by kraze 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleg85 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Difficult to tell exact details, but it seems Russians tried to "ride & overwhelm" move here. It is rather strange they did not spot nor suppress this lone defender. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, DesertFox said: Close Combat Cool! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, sburke said: I think their point is THIS is normal. The only way to change the behavior is to make sure they know they lost, and the days of imperial grandeur are over for good. Also extraordinarily helpful and eloquent 'facts on the ground': 1. Black Horse HQ redeploys to IVO Izium, with cantonments and training grounds sharing defence responsibility with fully 'Westernised' UA mech forces deployed in the central Karkhiv-Izium-east Luhansk oblast 'bulge' of Ukraine. Think CENTAG -- UA [Bundeswehr] fully integrated with US commands. Fulda Gap. Whatever 'heavy' means, it is deployed at full scale right heah! Go ahead, make our day.... 2. Polish-Czech heavy armoured division IVO Dnipro and Poltava (which btw is also a forward TAC base and EW command centre). Attach heavily subsidised Romanian pioneer brigade (come on, you DID get your frontier restored to the Dnistr postwar in 2025, by popular referendum. Do your bit!) ....Here, my pathetic little US satrapy can even contract some cranky old EOD sea lawyers to manage private contractors (I could accurately name the nations providing the actual sappers, but it would be distinctly nonwoke) clearing about ten bazillion mines/UXO in Donbas... that is actually the most dangerous postwar work, no joke. 3. 101 AB RCT in Kyiv backstops UA forces on the frontier from Chernaiv to Kyiv. TBH, the UA has nothing really to learn about combat from the 101st, but it's always nice to professionalise and integrate the 'tail'. 4. Ideally, Anglo-US HQ advisory and training elements -- perhaps Étrangère as well? -- are based around Gomel, in a newly democratic but utterly Anything Goes Belarus. Minsk becomes the weirdest, edgiest and most violent city in Europe, the sole entrepot of the post-Soviet Mafiyas. Tombstone 1889, or Shanghai 1924.... Я твой Гекльберри. ...Notice that 'NATO' plays no formal role in any of this for 10+ years. **** So now we wander off the map of military into Emerging Markets possibility space. 1. By about 2032, Ukraine, Europe's GMP compliant manufacturing hub, has already reached middle income status on a national average per capita GDP basis. 2. Fantastic yakitori, chaat and vegan Texmex, plus gourmet coffee, is standard fare in youthful hi-tech edge cities exploding in quaint Old Town / university areas of all Ukraine's major cities. 3. Ukrainian biopharma / biotech eats China's (and India's) lunch with amazing speed, moving to the world's R&D leading edge (daily nonstop flights Odessa-Tel Aviv). 4. With avid lobbying from the private sector (fine, just say George Soros if you're into that kind of thing, but it's pretty ecumenical in reality), Ukraine achieves EU membership by 2028, well before NATO becomes feasible. 5. @kraze , realising that Living Well Is the Best Revenge, claims 'reparations' from ambiguously legal Muscovite massage therapists, one lap dance at a time. In addition to his tireless custom but stingy tipping, he also gains some notoriety in the trade by insisting the 'visiting artists' recite verses from Pushkin and Bulgakov on the karaoke machine whilst Performing, with the bass reverb cranked up to Eleven.... Ни мамы, ни папы, ни газировки с виски. Нет русской возлюбленной! 6. Coincidentally, rumour spreads that certain videos are embedded as easter eggs in CMBS2 scenarios. Shall we say, ahem, 'Enemy Condition' finally becomes meaningful in achieving Total Victory. Whose grass mod are you using, winkwinknudgenudge? 7. CM product sales soar faster than a Stalinist pig iron quota, particularly for the Professional Edition. Steve retires to Stalin's former palace at Yalta (several degrees warmer than Vermont) and makes bank as a docent, with the grudging assent of his wife, while obdurately refusing to fix the PzKwIII turret rotation bug, or sumfink. 6. Meanwhile, across the bristling 2023 frontier, maquiladoras flourish, first in Crimea and Kuban, then in Belgorod and Voronezh... and, wait for it, Chechnya (where Kadyrov has finally achieved martyrdom after enjoying too much lamb with apricots at the halal buffet). Bored, totally unfunded Russian generals are only too happy to put their mobiks/zeks/ fanatical brainwashed Third Rome Zoomers to profitable (for the generals) work in sweatshops, picking and packing pills and chips, since 'hohols' can no longer can be found to do those jobs across the (densely fortified and mined but increasingly porous) frontier. ....So yeah, about that combat Readiness for that Next War, against peoples who are presently funding your commanders' beach houses in Cyprus. 8. Sadly, the shattered and depopulated Donbas will take at least 12 years and billions in reconstruction aid and subsidies to start showing signs of economic life again. 'Clean energy' on the steppes is probably the thin edge of the wedge. (copains, please don't take this too literally, it's presented more as a counterpoint to the last 20 pages or so. But such trajectories did /are happening in Asia, in spite of dysfunctional rulers and seemingly shattered infra and social contracts. Take a look at today's Cambodia, which quite literally devoured about a third of itself nearly half a century ago!) 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Sekai said: WW1, we meet again Not really. There's often analogies to WW1 here (I've made them myself) but that's more about the broader tactical situation of using infantry:mech at a late WW1 ratio. Extended and close-in Trench warfare was a totally WW2 thing also, and onwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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