DesertFox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Huba said: Awesome, it means it will be equipment form BW stock! Hopefully it will also mean no more block for industry selling what they have on their hands. Let´s hope so. AFAIK there are still 88 Leo 1A5 with Rheinmetall and additional 100 1A5 with FFG, plus 50 odd Leo II in the industry. However lets wait how many Leo II A4/A5/A6/PL/ES they can scrape together to be sent over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Butschi said: No. Your call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyCat Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Is this true? Might be a long time before they get to Ukraine. That or we manage to convince another operator to hand over their tanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, FancyCat said: Is this true? Might be a long time before they get to Ukraine. That or we manage to convince another operator to hand over their tanks. Welcome to the club of weak excuses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmonkey Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, FancyCat said: Is this true? Might be a long time before they get to Ukraine. That or we manage to convince another operator to hand over their tanks. If that were true, I don't think Congress would have a problem passing a quick revision to the law to fix it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 28 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said: Germany will send at least one company of Leopard 2A6. I haven't seen this confirmed though. I would have expected a high level announcement on TV if a decision was made. Nothing in "heute". Maybe later... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 If they could convice Greece and Spain to replace their Leo IIs with M1 Abrams tanks, that would free up a significant number for use in Ukraine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Butschi said: I haven't seen this confirmed though. I would have expected a high level announcement on TV if a decision was made. Nothing in "heute". Maybe later... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Huba said: That only says that the opposition (CDU) wants to discuss the topic. No confirmation whatsoever. "On Wednesday, January 25, 2023, the Bundestag will discuss the question of possible deliveries of Leopard tanks from Germany to Ukraine. The topical hour was set up at the request of the CDU/CSU parliamentary group, which wants to "end the German government's Leopard blockade" and fears a loss of confidence by the German government among allies. (ste/24.01.2023)" Edited January 24, 2023 by Butschi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Huba said: great news! Now the question I have is what do we expect these to provide once in battle in May/June? My perception is that there's much better survivability. Much better optics. So in an actual fight I'd expect that these would have some higher chance of surviving ATGM or tank hit than the current T64/72/80s. Also I'd expect the better spotting to play a big role in getting ordnance onto targets quickly and thereby reducing the amount of incoming ATGM/tank fire. Do y'all think these perceptions are true? I understand that these aren't wonder weapons. I just wonder how much better a combined arms attack would be w these as compared to current soviet tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Zeitgeist Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 The Netherlands will apparently send 18 Leopard 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said: The Netherlands will apparently send 18 Leopard 2. Very good! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 27 minutes ago, Butschi said: I haven't seen this confirmed though. I would have expected a high level announcement on TV if a decision was made. Nothing in "heute". Maybe later... If SPIEGEL reports it, it is generally trustworthy. They usually have good and reliable sources and are not prone to spit out information just to be first. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Kraft said: https://t.me/robert_magyar/371 11:20 is where that scene comes from. Notice the Russian outside dying in the most random way. Thanks, but seems it needs a Telegram account to view. I'll take your word for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said: The Netherlands will apparently send 18 Leopard 2. We should all learn from Der Zeitgeist, who throughout all this noise stayed calm and basically said "it'll happen, just be patient". Many of us, like me, were losing our minds and it's clear we should've just been more patient. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butschi Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) Now "Tagesschau" confirmed it, it seems. Edit: Tagesschau started saying Germany is going to deliver tanks according to "ARD Hauptstadtstudio". They went on that an official announcement about what was decided is probably going to come tomorrow. So, seems the info is probably true but it isn't official, yet. Edited January 24, 2023 by Butschi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 36 minutes ago, danfrodo said: great news! Now the question I have is what do we expect these to provide once in battle in May/June? My perception is that there's much better survivability. Much better optics. So in an actual fight I'd expect that these would have some higher chance of surviving ATGM or tank hit than the current T64/72/80s. Also I'd expect the better spotting to play a big role in getting ordnance onto targets quickly and thereby reducing the amount of incoming ATGM/tank fire. Do y'all think these perceptions are true? I understand that these aren't wonder weapons. I just wonder how much better a combined arms attack would be w these as compared to current soviet tanks. Yeah, not wonder weapons. They are just going to give a significant edge. They are going to be a superior system to anything that Russia has. Against a T90M the gap might not be huge(depending on the exact models) in all aspects but as a whole it is a big gap. RUS seems to have significant lack of modernized armored equipment. They will mostly be facing the tech they were designed to overmatch against. This would result in outcomes like seen in the gulf war in terms of tank to tank battles that happened. With these you are likely to find the target first, shoot first, penetrate and even get a way with being hit yourself. Ruskies will be in inverted situation on all these points. A true overmatch would be newest model APS equipped MBTs. That would be on the level of driving to the highest spot and shooting away. (not literally) There is also a large fleet of "unaccounted for" modern RUS tanks. Maybe these are going to be pulled to the front if they exist at all. (of course if we have 50% loss rate in visually confirmed total loss, that might mean the actually operational loss rate is closer to 100%) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 This is the biggest news this year for the war. And there is big competitions so that is saing much:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/24/us/politics/pentagon-ukraine-ammunition.html 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbindc Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Just now, The_MonkeyKing said: This is the biggest news this year for the war. And there is big competitions so that is saing much:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/24/us/politics/pentagon-ukraine-ammunition.html More than Ukraine. Also Taiwan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said: This is the biggest news this year for the war. And there is big competitions so that is saing much:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/24/us/politics/pentagon-ukraine-ammunition.html May be bigger news than the tanks, oh my. If UKR has increasing artillery superiority RU is in serious trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pintere Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Der Zeitgeist said: Germany will send at least one company of Leopard 2A6. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huba Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, danfrodo said: May be bigger news than the tanks, oh my. If UKR has increasing artillery superiority RU is in serious trouble. I'd love to see the projected production of PGK fuses to add to that Another argument for time NOT being on Russia's side. Edited January 24, 2023 by Huba 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, DesertFox said: If they could convice Greece and Spain to replace their Leo IIs with M1 Abrams tanks, that would free up a significant number for use in Ukraine. Can understand why Greece needs Leo deterrent re their ancient enemy Turkey, but Spain and Portugal together have the largest reservoir of Leos in Europe and it's unclear why quite a number of those could not be spared. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 20 hours ago, Sojourner said: Could it be this one near Kadiivka on Sunday? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/over-100-russian-soldiers-buried-under-rubble-after-strike-on-base-ukraine/ar-AA16DXw1?cvid=69b4d788842f40c4949afbb95b3a0e06 It could be, but currently unknown. This is two different strikes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 56 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said: This would result in outcomes like seen in the gulf war in terms of tank to tank battles that happened. That's only true if you believe the only counter to a tank is another tank, and/or the Russians are dumb enough to try and play your game. Oh, wait. We already agreed: Russia sux. Carry on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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