Pete Wenman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Hapless said: My concern for Bil is that he will still be OOing when The_Capt DAs all over him. Lol - you could be right though P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalon Jones Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 20 hours ago, HerrTom said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like we can expect both main forces to run into each other in a nice clash of steel that the Capt might win due to his overwhelming firepower advantage. My read of the coming manoeuvres: https://imgur.com/scpRyd I'm not sure Bil is expecting a large push over the southern part of the valley, so it'll be interesting to see if he sniffs it out in time. Beat me to it. As soon as Bil fleshed out his plan.....I smiled. It'll be a armored slugfest with REDFOR having the advantages in numbers, gun penetration and frontal armor. Bil is unwittingly stacking his troops into an unfavorable correlation against The Capt. The deciding factor will be if BLUEFOR can make the spots/take the shots quicker. For the M60's it'll have to be acquire target/shot first/kill target/acquire new target before the REDFOR armor. That means superior training. It also means Bil will have to be in position before The Capt makes his move. If both are on the move at the same time, REDFOR wins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 10 hours ago, BletchleyGeek said: I am not totally sure either @Lethaface- you raise a good point. The thing is that as far as I understand Warren is planning to push through his left flank (which is Bil's right flank). So if Bil uses his cluster ammo volley on those targets you mention, it may well be that he only hits trees, rather than Soviet AFVs. Those SBF positions that Bil has in his analysis seem to me only to exist there, rather than being something Warren actually intends doing. There's a forest with some logging trails crisscrossing it. I don't think Bil has even mentioned them in his analysis. Warren's sketch was seemingly avoiding them as well. You could very well be right regarding the SBF positions. However I'd expect Bil not to target his artillery on a hunch, also not sure about the call in time or how the cluster artillery even works exactly. What we do know is that both are indeed looking at the same flank, while Capt plans to advance (through the open?) and Bil seems to be preparing for an enemy push there. Or, at least he seems to be setting up some TOW M113s against that flank, has some tanks already in place there and ordered the second tank platoon to the same flank but out of sight. So I'm not sure he will be surprised if Capt pushes full strength there, he's sort of expecting it it seems to me. I'll guess for the outcome of the armour fight, a lot depends on artillery; Capt has ordered strikes on the crest while I suspect Bil wil also try to use his own (he's quite a lot). Not too worried about the infantry, if Soviet squads are 6men each like CMBS / Syrian CMSF2, I'm not sure how big of the difference is regarding infantry strength. Plus Bil has enough artillery to barrage the town. I think the winner of the armour enagement will decide who has the upperhand with infantry fighting for the town. But, I think it's difficult to be accurate without having seen the map in CM for ourselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 I meant to add in my previous post that this map is one of the eight I completed for the US campaign. It is 2k wide and 2.5k deep, so not large, and in fact the smallest of the 8 maps. Bil and Warren do have an awful lot of heavy kit in quite a small place on this one. Knife fight could well be an understatement ! As tease I can confirm for the US campaign that the average map size is over eleven square kilometres and so this one is less than half the average size. P 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, Pete Wenman said: I meant to add in my previous post that this map is one of the eight I completed for the US campaign. It is 2k wide and 2.5k deep, so not large, and in fact the smallest of the 8 maps. Bil and Warren do have an awful lot of heavy kit in quite a small place on this one. Knife fight could well be an understatement ! As tease I can confirm for the US campaign that the average map size is over eleven square kilometres and so this one is less than half the average size. P That's some large maps! Looking forward to playing them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lethaface said: That's some large maps! Looking forward to playing them! Particularly considering that he only started making them around the turn of the new year ... naturally, like all of Pete's maps, they are bloody good too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Combatintman said: Particularly considering that he only started making them around the turn of the new year ... naturally, like all of Pete's maps, they are bloody good too. Which is amazing - my one attempt to make a map resulted in, after 2-3 weeks, a very alien looking piece of terrain ! ( I've saved it for the Space Lobsters game ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 26 minutes ago, Baneman said: Which is amazing - my one attempt to make a map resulted in, after 2-3 weeks, a very alien looking piece of terrain ! ( I've saved it for the Space Lobsters game ) All level of skills have some kind of use in the end  0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riptides Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 "Quantity has a quality all its own". While Bil has the tactics down, Capt has the numbers. I'll say a force rush by Capt, following Soviet Doctrine to the letter, and victory is his. Â 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rice Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 hours ago, riptides said: "Quantity has a quality all its own". While Bil has the tactics down, Capt has the numbers. I'll say a force rush by Capt, following Soviet Doctrine to the letter, and victory is his. Â Rushing all his assets might get him into town but it won't guarantee anything beyond that. Burning all your assets isn't worth it imo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landser Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 9:30 AM, Holien said: Just thought it might be useful to have a thread where folk can talk about the AAR but without Bil or The Capt peeking? What a great idea, and a superb thread already, great commentary all. It takes the most interesting AARs on the net one notch higher. Don't have much to add, but I'm leaning towards the Captain's numbers. Either way it is a battle that highlights one of the things that appeals to me so much about CMCW, the opposing doctrine, dissimilar rosters, asymmetric warfare. A spectator's analysis thread like this is so logical and fun, thanks for starting it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, Rice said: Rushing all his assets might get him into town but it won't guarantee anything beyond that. Burning all your assets isn't worth it imo I think Bil and The_Capt are more focused on smacking each other around than the actual objective. After all, if the other guy is dead you can take it anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 Bil is getting his arty ready, it will be interesting to see if this gives him the edge he seems to implying it will. He is certainly winning the initial duels and seems to have a good picture in his mind of what he is up against. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kch001 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Does Capt. have any smoke fire missions available? If he is planning a rush, wouldnt a smoke screen help? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastLeigh Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 How/where Bil employs his indirect fire assets will define this fight for sure. Could go either way, but if Bil's fire support whiffs by not doing enough damage, he's gonna get rolled IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kch001 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Totally agree with you. If the air assets or artillery doesn't come into play and if it isn´t significantly more deadly than in the WW2 titles, then the current exchange ratio will kill off Bill quickly. Edited March 3, 2021 by kch001 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 Well we might have it wrong, Bil seems to be doing well and the T64s have not been able to land a blow on their antagonists. Arty on the way and looks like a good area of effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Holien said: Well we might have it wrong, Bil seems to be doing well and the T64s have not been able to land a blow on their antagonists It was interesting to see that the T 64B is rather blind, and also that it took a bit of work for those M60s to get full kills. Kind of reminds me of the duel between King Tigers and ISU-122 in the Red Thunder "Gog and Magog" scenario. Yet, I am not sure the Capt is toast, nothing has yet taken a decent shot at the M60s. Therefore I revise my previoud estimate of Bil's success probability from 0.3 to 0.5, in true Bayesian fashion  Edited March 7, 2021 by BletchleyGeek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Were the T-64s misused or why do we have two T-64 platoons practically inoperable? Edited March 7, 2021 by The_MonkeyKing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 minute ago, The_MonkeyKing said: Were the T-64s misused or why do we have two T-64 platoons practically inoperable? It is a very stark asymmetry that I wasn't really expecting. We're also watching an AAR of the beta version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 I think Bils explanation covers it. To note that he needed so many hits on one to get a kill was interesting. I guess the crew being hit panicked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzuya Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 9 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said: Were the T-64s misused or why do we have two T-64 platoons practically inoperable? As Holien said Bill's explanation hits the nail on the head, hull down keyholed armour has a major spotting advantage. Worth mentioning the terrain is quite strongly in favour of Bill for the nature of this armoured engagement. The Capt's Armour is hemmed into his side of the map by the forest, all the trees and foliage will be heavily limiting the amount of firing angles and positions he has available and spots within the forest will likely have poor firing angles so to engage Bills armour he is being drawn to the edge of the treeline where his tanks face a punishing 30 second crawl back to cover if they are spotted whereas Bill has the choice of the larder, if his tanks are spotted he can pull back into defilade at will and reposition to a new hull down spot. I'm not the biggest fan of how the T64's were used here but the fact The Capt was expecting better tanks than T62's as his reinforcements goes a way to explaining that, if he had a Company of T64A's as reinforcements the losses on the field would be far less important. As it is most of his best armour has been whittled away in a gun duel that favoured Bill from the offset. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_MonkeyKing Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Good analysis, makes sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 Wow the game is going to get pretty interesting soon with Bil's plans, looks like his arty has not hit the mark according to the Capt? The loss of another Tow system is painful but maybe not an issue as he is aiming to get into a knife fight up close... As ever cracking reports from both players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastLeigh Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 It's fascinating how different both players' views are of the situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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