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On 1/3/2021 at 11:24 AM, Battlefront.com said:

all Battlefront customers get automatic and free access to the Slitherine Steam versions.

I'm a brand-new customer and only just heard of Combat Mission thanks to the Shock Force 2 listing on Steam. This despite looking for literal years for a realistic tactics simulation of infantry and combined arms combat, and being an avid player of tabletop miniatures wargames like Bolt Action. Suffice to say, Combat Mission is like a gift from the gods, and checks boxes I didn't even know I could wish for. I've become an instant fan.

This news about my Battlefront purchase being honored on Steam is wonderful, and I've shared it with my IRL gaming group friends. I'm hoping a couple of them may take the plunge with me, as Combat Mission is a perfect replacement for tabletop wargaming in the time of Covid.

Sorry if my reply is overly gushing, but I just want to reiterate how happy I am with my purchase, and what looks like the very positive and healthy relationship between Battlefront and its customers. Though it took me too long to find you all, I'm so very glad to be here.

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I'm a brand-new customer and only just heard of Combat Mission thanks to the Shock Force 2 listing on Steam. This despite looking for literal years for a realistic tactics simulation of infantry and c

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24 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Since nobody seems to have the nerve to ask (small wonder) and I'm already the Enfant Terrible here, I will ask the question.

So worse case scenario is a release of Fire and Rubble in April-May 2021?

Worst case is a massive solar flare hitting earth right now. 😁

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26 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Since nobody seems to have the nerve to ask (small wonder) and I'm already the Enfant Terrible here, I will ask the question.

So worse case scenario is a release of Fire and Rubble in April-May 2021?

I'm not sure it's a matter of nerve, I've never found anyone at BFC that scary that I wouldn't ask them a question - if I felt the need to.

Anyway, worst case would seem to be February + 2 months = April.  Assuming the time sucker doesn't persist 😉.

Edited by Vacilllator
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6 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

I'm not sure it's a matter of nerve, I've never found anyone at BFC that scary that I wouldn't ask them a question - if I felt the need to.

Anyway, worst case would seem to be February + 2 months = April.  Assuming the time sucker doesn't persist 😉.

Rather sobering after all the end of the year hype, don't you think?

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3 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Rather sobering after all the end of the year hype, don't you think?

Well, yes I suppose so, but as we've discussed a few times I think that I understand your position (and that mine is somewhat different as a relative newcomer). 

We can only wait and busy ourselves with other things, like Final Blitzkrieg in my case 😉.

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Just now, Vacilllator said:

Well, yes I suppose so, but as we've discussed a few times I think that I understand your position (and that mine is somewhat different as a relative newcomer). 

We can only wait and busy ourselves with other things, like Final Blitzkrieg in my case 😉.

Don't get me wrong, I'm up to my neck in CMFB, CMFI, Command Opps 2 and several other games. But I'm rather flabbergasted about this announcement. But you're right of course.

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4 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm up to my neck in CMFB, CMFI, Command Opps 2 and several other games. But I'm rather flabbergasted about this announcement. But you're right of course.

It may not be what we'd hoped for, but then I wanted to remain a European - always have been and always will be 😉.  Oh no, now I'll be in trouble with the off-topic police...

Edited by Vacilllator
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3 minutes ago, Vacilllator said:

It may not be what we'd hoped for, but then I wanted to remain a European - always have been and always will be 😉.

I will never regard you Brits as anything else than Europeans. The dutch lost one of their best allies within the EU.

Edited by Aragorn2002
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7 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm up to my neck in CMFB, CMFI, Command Opps 2 and several other games. But I'm rather flabbergasted about this announcement. But you're right of course.

To be fair you didn't believe in the 8 January release date anyway ;-). Neither did I, but then I'm happy with just observing the release when the time is there and firing up a game.

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Just now, Lethaface said:

To be fair you didn't believe in the 8 January release date anyway ;-). Neither did I, but then I'm happy with just observing the release when the time is there and firing up a game.

True, didn't buy that for one moment. But perhaps  you're not an Eastfront fanatic as I am. Maar inderdaad, het is vechten tegen de bierkaai en ik moest er maar eens mee ophouden.

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14 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

True, didn't buy that for one moment. But perhaps  you're not an Eastfront fanatic as I am. Maar inderdaad, het is vechten tegen de bierkaai en ik moest er maar eens mee ophouden.

Geen forum post maakt het ontwikkelproces sneller, dat is misschien verstandig om te accepteren :-). 
Ik ben waarschijnlijk niet zo'n Oost Front fanaat als jij inderdaad. Al heb ik toevallig tijdens Corona wel het gelijknamige boek van Jaap Jan Brouwer gelezen. Ik vond het een goed boek, redelijk macro totaal overzicht.

Misschien helpt het dat mijn werk ook software product ontwikkeling is, dus ik weet hoe dingen gaan. Al is het een totaal ander bedrijf dan games maken. In ieder geval, ik vind het natuurlijk wel interessant om te horen als er een nieuwe versie van CM uitkomt maar in het algemeen maak ik me nooit druk om zulks soort zaken; ik heb er geen enkele controle over dus waarom zou ik me er druk om maken? Ik zie het wel wanneer het zover is. Maar goed, dat is natuurlijk een beetje een levenskunst die ik door 'allerhande praktijkervaring' heb geleerd. Het is iig veel relaxter om je niet druk te maken om zaken waar je geen invloed op hebt.

Edited by Lethaface
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18 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Rather sobering after all the end of the year hype, don't you think?

Yes 😥...

Especially the info on CM-5 made me happy indeed...and like many others i was about to post a...big thankyou !

But as things currently stand...I changed my mind slightelly...

I wll post A BIG !!! Thankyou ones the CM-5 update has actually been released...and we see what it entails...

And as it turned out...work on this update has not even begun yet...and it will not do so until FR has been finished by the sound of one of the later statements.

Hopefully it we be a fairly simple task to add some of the features already designed for the other version of CM...If not....ooohh well..........

And let me just say this...🙃

I am NOT dissatisfied with CM !!!....I do understand that BFC is a small company...and I do understand that last couple of years has held quite a few challanges for BFC.

The truth of the matter is that NO !!! other computetgame has brought me so many hours of enjoyment as CM.....EVER !!!

But i'm sorry !!! I just can't jump on the wagon and shout out that everything is great....no matter what...I just can't.

Despite the fact that i"m fully aware of the fact that BFC and those people associated with the company are doing their best..

I wish i could but i'm afraid that I have become...a bit disatisfied 

As for CMBS and CMFB...

I would be very supprised if not the majority of the people prefering those games are also quite....dissapointed...or perhaps even...dissatisfied right now.

Even LAST YEARS bone had the goal of RELEASING atleast one of those modules...that year !

This years bone....didn't even mention them...

That's not what I call progress...

I really hope that BFC gets things sorted...soon ! Because as things have been lately...I don't like that...sorry !

In the meantime i will continue to play CM...for many years to come...even if no further work is done to the current game...at all.

But what I want to do...is play CM Barbarossa and CM Case blue 😛🥰

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Geen forum post maakt het ontwikkelproces sneller, dat is misschien verstandig om te accepteren :-). 
Ik ben waarschijnlijk niet zo'n Oost Front fanaat als jij inderdaad. Al heb ik toevallig tijdens Corona wel het gelijknamige boek van Jaap Jan Brouwer gelezen. Ik vond het een goed boek, redelijk macro totaal overzicht.

Misschien helpt het dat mijn werk ook software product ontwikkeling is, dus ik weet hoe dingen gaan. Al is het een totaal ander bedrijf dan games maken. In ieder geval, ik vind het natuurlijk wel interessant om te horen als er een nieuwe versie van CM uitkomt maar in het algemeen maak ik me nooit druk om zulks soort zaken; ik heb er geen enkele controle over dus waarom zou ik me er druk om maken? Ik zie het wel wanneer het zover is. Maar goed, dat is natuurlijk een beetje een levenskunst die ik door 'allerhande praktijkervaring' heb geleerd. Het is iig veel relaxter om je niet druk te maken om zaken waar je geen invloed op hebt.

Amen to that. 🙂

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1 hour ago, RepsolCBR said:

As for CMBS and CMFB...

I would be very supprised if not the majority of the people prefering those games are also quite....dissapointed...or perhaps even...dissatisfied right now.

Even LAST YEARS bone had the goal of RELEASING atleast one of those modules...that year !

This years bone....didn't even mention them...

That's not what I call progress...

I really hope that BFC gets things sorted...soon ! Because as things have been lately...I don't like that...sorry !

In the meantime i will continue to play CM...for many years to come...even if no further work is done to the current game...at all.

But what I want to do...is play CM Barbarossa and CM Case blue 😛🥰

 

 

 

I think the next module for CMBS, and CMFB. Will be with engine 5. Thats why Steve is so cautious about it? It takes more time, but in the end. Its a win situation for us, right! :)

 

And back in 2016, ChrisND said this: "Black Sea module: think Marines, Naval Infantry, and VDV, among other new forces. And new high-tech toys. I want to really flesh out American, Ukrainian, and Russian forces/equipment on all levels before moving on to new nationalities" 

Well, we see. What we see :D

Edited by Armorgunner
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7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Depends a lot on distance to impact, I suppose.

Yup, and I suspect shape as well.  Not to mention the helmet shape and where on the helmet the hit happens, the angle of the helmet, etc.

7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

So I'm thinking that steel helmets might have offered good protection from shell, mortar, and handgrenade explosions at some distance from impact at least.

So here's the thing about that thought... the effective damage radius for things like grenades and "infantry" mortars is well under 200 feet.  So if you're going to get hit by a hand grenade fragment, it's more likely going to be a few feet or tens of feet from point of detonation.  What's important there is the "initial velocity", not what it is after reaching "terminal velocity".  A quick check of some documentation finds most initial velocities are many thousands of feet per second within the effective ranges.  Put another way, bullets are designed to pace themselves, shell fragments like to make a bolder impression ;)

Plus, generally speaking if you're within the blast radius of a hand grenade you're likely facing more than just a single bit of metal coming your way.  Having your buddy walk over and examine your helmet and say "hey, lookie here.  His helmet stopped a couple of shell fragments" doesn't matter too much if he found the helmet a couple of feet away from the rest of your body.

5 hours ago, mjkerner said:

“...time sucking variable” was once my answer to my lovely wife when asked why I hadn’t gotten to my chores for the day. “Sorry dear,” says I, “but playing Combat Mission is a time sucking variable.” I was then informed that the Doghouse is also a time sucking variable.

Fortunately for me, putting me in the Doghouse is counter productive to my earnings potential.  It is a persuasive argument.  Mostly.

2 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Since nobody seems to have the nerve to ask (small wonder) and I'm already the Enfant Terrible here, I will ask the question.

So worse case scenario is a release of Fire and Rubble in April-May 2021?

Worst case from a development standpoint, yes.  But as others have illustrated, things like asteroids and alien invasions could change the results.

Steve

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2 hours ago, surfimp said:

I'm a brand-new customer and only just heard of Combat Mission thanks to the Shock Force 2 listing on Steam. This despite looking for literal years for a realistic tactics simulation of infantry and combined arms combat, and being an avid player of tabletop miniatures wargames like Bolt Action. Suffice to say, Combat Mission is like a gift from the gods, and checks boxes I didn't even know I could wish for. I've become an instant fan.

This news about my Battlefront purchase being honored on Steam is wonderful, and I've shared it with my IRL gaming group friends. I'm hoping a couple of them may take the plunge with me, as Combat Mission is a perfect replacement for tabletop wargaming in the time of Covid.

Sorry if my reply is overly gushing, but I just want to reiterate how happy I am with my purchase, and what looks like the very positive and healthy relationship between Battlefront and its customers. Though it took me too long to find you all, I'm so very glad to be here.

Welcome and thanks for taking the time to post this.  We've known for a long time that you were out there, we just didn't have a practical way of reaching you until now!  We're happy to have connected with you.

Steve

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9 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I didn't say the effect was small. I just said I was happy to hear the effect is taken into account in the game.

My post was meant to support your statement not to question it

 

Good article published by the US Army Medical Department:

https://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/woundblstcs/chapter11.htm

On the WW2 US M1

"Some aspects of the value of the M1 helmet are discussed by Beebe and DeBakey in their book on battle casualties.4More recently, Norman Hitchman5 of the Army's Operations Research Office reviewed some of the World War II casualty statistics and reached some important and timely conclusions regarding the value of wearing a helmet in combat. The following observations resulted from this statistical analysis:

1. Of all hits upon the helmet, 54 percent were defeated.

2. For every 100 men wounded while wearing helmets, 9.6 men received wounds in the cranium. Without the helmet, it would be expected that 11.4 men would be wounded in the head.

3. The M1 helmet prevented a number of incapacitating hits equal to 10 percent of the total hits on the body.

4Beebe, Gilbert W., and DeBakey, Michael F.: Battle Casualties. Springfield: Charles C. Thomas, 1952, p. 176.
5Hitchman, N. A.: Keep Your Head . . . Keep Your Helmet. Army 8:42-44, September 1957.

4. The estimated savings in total battle casualties means that the helmet in World War II probably prevented wounds in more than 70,000 men. A significant proportion of these men would have been killed had the helmet not been worn.

5. To get the same amount of saving by protecting other regions, body armor weighing more than twice as much as the helmet would have to be provided."

 

- Should be also obvious that the main purpose of a helmet was not to protect from direct good-angle impact penetration by rifle rounds or them to do wonders. "However, battle casualty survey studies during World Wars I and II and the Korean War have shown that the primary wounding agent among the WIA and the KIA casualties was the fragmentation-type weapon"

- that helmets cover a small part of the body is evident but it should be obvious that the upper cranium is one of the most critical areas when it comes to incapacitation and/or death. It is also a good idea to think outside of a wargamer chair as everybody with a service record would point this out: what is a more-than-usual exposed body part when situated in a trench, foxhole or in a typical (prone) firing position? Exactly. Thus simply comparing helmet body % vs overall body % is lacking.

- For the French Adrian helmet 60-70% reduction in shrapnel head injury are thrown around in articles. These are secondary/tertiary sources and I never saw the primary source so I am in doubt about this high numbers without sighting the ps, could be "Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare" by Dean, Bashford (1920) but not confirmed. The soldiers were often subject to shrapnel projectiles coming from above, these numbers could be very situational.

- it was stated in this thread that the true protection of WW2 steel helmets is in the dark and that is exactly the case and what a good researcher/expert would point out.

- Being almost a decade involved with military professionals, studying at military schools, reading multiple, multilingual sources, witnessing shrapnel/fragmentation and the protection of similar fashioned gear first hand I can´t remember coming across an opinion stating WW2 helmet shrapnel protection did not matter too much as it would be self-evident.

 

Despite this it is not a really important discussion for me as I am currently fine with how the CM simulation behaves when it comes to frag/shrapnel and that headgear is to some extent incorporated is a fine extra. 

Edited by Aquila-SmartWargames
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