Thompson sights what are they ranged for?

[com-intern]

I'm in a discussion with a few folks about the M1 and M1A1 Thompson. Specifically what are the sights ranged for? They have a fixed sight with an aperture and notch but I cannot find any information about what they are set for.

I've seen comments that they are 50 yards and 100 yards (aperture/notch), 100 and 250, and even 100 and 50. Can anyone answer this for me?Insert other media

[MikeyD]

Here's the best picture I could find of the marking on the adjustable sight. But Thompson got simplified for wartime and they discarded the adjustable sight for a simple one. Thompson fires the same slow heavy .45 cal round as a colt pistol.  Adjusting the sights for distance firing is wishful thinking.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[IICptMillerII]

IIRC troops in CM will not fire the Thompson at spotted targets that are more than 100 meters away. (100 or 150m, can't remember) That's about the max effective range of the Thompson in real life anyways, and the same goes for most submachine guns. 

[Rinaldi]

All SMGs don't fire past 200m in game.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 minute ago, Rinaldi said:

All SMGs don't fire past 200m in game.

I think in one of the updated the Thompson was changed to 160 meters.  But I think (have not re-tested) the other SMGs are still hard coded at 200 meters. 

[JoMac]

I think SMG's in CM should be limited to 100 meters across the board if you let the AI Target on its own..If you decide to 'Target' enemy or 'Area-Fire' then its fine to have your SMG's fire out to its max range (150-200).

Joe

[Chibot Mk IX]

Errr, TacAI will shoot 150-200m target with SMG, at least that's the case for PPSH and MP40 

[com-intern]

@Sgt.Squarehead

Thanks the 1928A1 video had the information I am looking for. 100 yards and 250 yards. Which seems more aspirational than practical to me.

[MikeyD]

You can't compare them directly in the same title but there's a big difference between Thompson and PPSh in the game(s). Thompson has a heavier bullet and PPSh has a higher muzzle velocity. You can see Thompson tracers make an arc firing at a distance. PPSh has a flatter trajectory then the rounds just peter out. MP40 falls somewhere between the two.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

PPSh is the best room-sweeper in the game.....It's present in CM:A (both sides have them), and it was largely responsible for this:

That's two turns fighting, mostly with PPSh & Grenades.....Note that almost all of the dead guys had AKs!  

PS - Oh my god.....There is another one in there and he has a PPSh!  By my calculation another 112 'Celestial Virgins' are now fully occupied! 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[com-intern]

Were the Thompson sights ever refitted to be 50 yards and 100 yards? I saw an interview with Ken Hackathorn were he states they were 50 and 100. My initial thought is that he is just misremembering information but again the 100/250 seems very optimistic, and the Thompson sights being updated after WW2 doesn;t seem incredibly far fetched.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Oh no.....There were two of them:

They did this:

AFAIK at least one of them is still alive.....I'm now blowing the hell out of the police headquarters with a T-55, mostly in the hope of inducing a global surrender, as these two clearly have no intention of doing so on their own! 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Combatintman]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:20 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Oh no.....There were two of them:

They did this:

AFAIK at least one of them is still alive.....I'm now blowing the hell out of the police headquarters with a T-55, mostly in the hope of inducing a global surrender, as these two clearly have no intention of doing so on their own! 

Perhaps the ANA should re-equip with PPShs.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Between them & the LMG team on the upper level, they took out well over twenty men! 

It's ironic that the Najibullah regime arguably did better against the Mujahideen than any of the prior, fully Soviet supported, regimes.....It didn't last of course, the 'War Of Rockets' saw to that. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[MikeyD]

Reading over the initial post, I don't think we actually answered his question

[Sgt.Squarehead]

The answer to OP's question is to be found in the M1928A1 video.....Apparently. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Sgt.Squarehead

[user1000]

Thompson was  accurate to 50 yards, beyond that not accurate.

Edited May 26, 2020 by user1000

[umlaut]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:20 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Oh no.....There were two of them:

You can tell it´s the eighties by the shoulder pads

 

[com-intern]

Yes, I was wondering about the physical sights on the gun. Not about the effective range or anything really related to its Combat Mission application. I just figured that a forum like this would likely have someone with info on it as CM tends to attract a certain group.

Online its quite easy to find that the war-era Thompsons quickly went over to the fixed sights. However, you will generally just find some text that says:

 

Quote

Replaced the Lyman adjustable sight with a fixed sight to speed production.

With no information about the fixed sight. Sometimes they will mention that it had a peep sight and notch sight but again no mention of what ranges these were for. Without any definitive info you see people then post what they heard or what they assume is correct. The most popular answer is that the peep is 50 yards and the notch is 100 yards. The second most popular answer seems to be that the peep is 100 yards while the notch is 50 yards.

In the video Sgt. Squarehead posted above Ian from Forgotten Weapons says that the peep is 100 yards while the notch is 250 yards. I'm inclined to take is word on that even though I've yet to be able to track down a technical manual or training film from the era the explicitly states this.

[db_zero]

I’ve had the opportunity to fire a Thompson and PPSh. What stood out was the weight. Same with the Modello 38. Compared to modern SMGs and assault rifles WW2 SMGs are tanks-at least the ones I’ve held and fired.

The M1 carbine for all its limitations would have been more my speed but that’s just me.

[c3k]

I do not have any experience firing a Thompson. However, despite it having a 10 1/2" or 12" barrel (depending on model), the muzzle velocity I've found online is listed at about the same as a 5" 1911. 

Having fired a 1911 many times, when trying for 100+ yard shots, the drop is...significant.

I would think the effectiveness would be pretty good out to 50 yards. Somewhere between there and 100 it should drop way off in effectiveness. Anyone with just partial exposure would be pretty tough to hit at 100 yards, unless they stayed there as the shooter walked the rounds onto the target.

All IMHO.

(I did see a youtube video of a well-regarded shooter hitting a 4x8 piece of plywood with a .45 at 1,000 yards. He held VERY high.   )