Please BFC, no more titanium trees

[rocketman]

I'm getting fed up with trees being able to suck up so much damage from HE without even shedding a leaf. A couple of HE from a tank makes a nice big hole in a 6ft stone brick wall, but trees....noooo....

Had instances where AT-guns have had clear line of sight apart from a single tree, and continue to put HE after HE (and even HEAT) into the tree with no effect. Not only that, but the crew fails to alter their aim just a wee bit to shoot on the side of the tree instead. They fail to hold fire but plug away at the tree instead.

Please, for me this is one of (luckily) few immersion breakers in the CM-series. Is there anything to be done?

[H1nd]

Trees seem to get destroyed much easier in CMBS so maybe they have adjusted it.

[rocketman]

I have seen that too. I think it is on account of higher fire power, which could mean that trees resistance to HE could be lowered. But what do I know about code

[Bud Backer]

I think others have mentioned instances of trees seemingly enduring crazy amounts of HE. I wondered if it's an outlier or very common. My experience with that is rare. In my Apache comic battle two HE rounds destroyed a tree completely, and that was from a Sherman 75. It's hard to pin down sometimes what the problem is when one has polar opposites like that. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by Bud Backer

[A Canadian Cat]

My experience matches more with @Bud Backer than @rocketman wrt to trees. I see them disappear often and I have not noticed any gun crews with an unhealthy obsession with shooting trees instead of their intended target. There could be some conditions that cause this to happen like anything else in the game. Do you have game saves of your tree obsessed gun crew?

[Warts 'n' all]

By pure coincidence I did run a test a few weeks back. I fired up the "Roadblock" tutorial mission. I gave one M4 orders to head across the open field and into the left hand corner. Then fire on the nearest farm building. One tree lost it's leaves very quickly, the upper branches soon followed. And the tree itself disappeared from the map at the same time as the barn collapsed. Of course, that wasn't a "scientific" test. And, I'm no expert on ballistics. But, it seems to me that the game handles trees as well as can be expected given that north-western Europe is full of trees of various type, age, trunk diameter, hardness etc

[rocketman]

Don't have any saves since I just switched to a new computer. But I have this:

The FJ team had Shermans in front with perfect flanking shot opportunity, yet put all AP/HEAT from their recoiless gun into that tree and it looked the same afterwards.

Many times I see similar things. Yes, the tree might shed some leaves but very seldom the trunk disappears. Next time I get this I will collect a save.

[MikeyD]

I can recall trees getting defoliated and eventually disappearing all the way back in CMSF

[c3k]

I agree, trees DO defoliate. However, the OP is right: they last too long. I just had a battle where my Jagdpanther put about a dozen rounds into a tree while trying to shoot a Sherman. Sure, the tree eventually lost its leaves. (BTW, one LOD would show leaves, the closer LOD showed no leaves...issue?) I'd think one or two rounds of high velocity 88 would take out most trees. A dozen certainly should have. The tree still stood...

[rocketman]

I can recall trees getting defoliated and eventually disappearing all the way back in CMSF

If the modelling for trees hasn't changed I would expect it to happen more in SF than BN (that I play most) due to the higher caliber weapons. Also, even if a tree does get defoliated, does that really stop high caliber weapons more, since the branches remain? Marginally is my guess. However, the trunk is the main issue here.

[Michael Emrys]

Does anybody recall what trees did when shot up in CMx1? Seems I remember that artillery at least blasted them to smithereens.

Michael

[J Bennett]

a separate but similar question: can engineers clear trees or blast them down? I know you can blast through hedgerow

but not a tree. That could be something for the wish list

[Lt Bull]

??? I have never seen/known/witnessed any CM trees being defoliated/damaged/destroyed/leveled from HE/AP or any other weapon.

Have I perhaps not been paying enough attention?

Got to say it would be pretty cool if they did.

[A Canadian Cat]

They definitely do loose leaves and disappear all together. There could be some need for tweaking if some one creats a test the shows some of the reported observations as being repeatable.

[4Horsemen]

Yup me too having problems with trees stopping/absorbing more 75mm rounds (and bigger ) then any of the tanks ive shot at (that consist or 3 inches of steel armor and more )

  I have noticed the big arty rounds destroy tress that are directly hit ( no real AOE ) but there is still more of a forest left after and emergency arty hail storm then I think there should be.

  I think tanks and AT guns should rip through tress and even hit close targets beyond ( or even chance to redirect (or deflect) bullets causing accidental hit locations ... perhaps even accidental FF if present ).  And I mean if they take some damage before they are completely destroyed from the rounds.

 And the large howitzer hailstorms should be capable of opening up a forest area quite a bit. exposing once hidden troops or at least reducing the bonuses where the forest was pummeled.

  this is just MOP...  I love this game and WW2 history, but im not aware of what the real consequences of the aforementioned situations would inflict

Edited March 14, 2016 by 4Horsemen

[Michael Emrys]

And the large howitzer hailstorms should be capable of opening up a forest area quite a bit. exposing once hidden troops or at least reducing the bonuses where the forest was pummeled.

I can see how that might be true of vehicles and other large objects, but men can find concealment quite as easily—if not more so—among fallen foliage as among standing trees. As an afterthought, it should be more difficult and tiring to move through downed foliage.

Michael

Edited March 14, 2016 by Michael Emrys

[rocketman]

They definitely do loose leaves and disappear all together. There could be some need for tweaking if some one creats a test the shows some of the reported observations as being repeatable.

I will go ahead and make a test since I brought it up. Serves me righ, eh

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL pretty much.

[c3k]

Dropping trees: Saturday, I had my son cut down his first tree (Edited to add: I just paced it out. 1 yard pace...34 paces Not shabby for a first tree.). It didn't fall where he wanted it.  It made a mess. Engineers demo'ing trees do not necessarily make it easier to move. Dropped trees are great movement obstacles (abatis). Foliage/branches on the ground are good concealment. The effect would be similar to Heavy Underbrush in the game.

As well, some trees in woods don't fall: they get hung up on other trees. It's heavily wooded where I live. If you don't think about the crown and how the tree you're cutting will fall, it won't. Those aren't fun...

Edited March 14, 2016 by c3k

[Bil Hardenberger]

This video from the Black Sea BETA AAR shows that trees do indeed get destroyed in game (30mm from a BMP 3).. if trees of different diameter have unique characteristics against fire I couldn't say.. but this is not the only instance I have seen trees getting destroyed by fire... I have also seen trees withstand a lot of firepower and I have seen them lose all leaves.  So different states of damage do seem to exist in the game.

I will say that a tree should withstand several AP rounds... not sure what HEAT would do to a tree... HE should have better effect IMO.

[rocketman]

That clip, when I first saw it, was the first time I noticed trees disappearing fully from fire. There seems to be a formula of resistance vs incoming fire effect and IMO it is set to low for HE from, let's say, a Sherman main gun. What I would like to know is if damage is cumulative for each tree or not. If it isn't, maybe it is no surprise that trees don't get knocked down as much in the WWII games as each hit has to overcome a certain level of resistanc and then so on for each hit.

[Baneman]

... What I would like to know is if damage is cumulative for each tree or not. ...

I've certainly seen that - first the foliage goes, then, a hit or 2 later, the trunk.

[rocketman]

I meant cumulative for each level, first foilage, then trunk. So, is the chance of foilage disappearing the same for each hit or does it increase for each hit. Then the same procedure for the trunk.

[Bulletpoint]

On a related note, did they fix bushes and branches blocking AP-shells?

[AttorneyAtWar]

On a related note, did they fix bushes and branches blocking AP-shells?

No.