CMBS License/Activation

[SgtHatred]

Check out the post on the bottom from BFC support...upgrading OS will most likely kill an activation...gsclean for everyone!

 

I suspect that Windows 10 free upgrade is going to be a joy for many small DRM-laden shops.

[sburke]

btw, sburke...that response is a terrible response from someone who is associated with the company.  If that is an official recommendation, I expect it to be on the purchase page.  Its that kind of response that gives DRM a bad name.

First off, I am not employed by BFC.  That I am a beta tester simply means they ask me to try the game and report issues that I find.  It entitles me to no special relationship nor qualifies me to speak for the company.  So no it is not official.

 

Secondly DRM IS a pain in the ass, but a pain in the ass driven by the fact that people will pirate the s**t out of software and then think of a million lame ass excuses as to why they should feel entitled to do so.  Blame them.

 

Third, I am a gamer and a member of a public forum which is where you posted your comment.  I am free to comment however I damn well please as I have no contractual obligation with BFC to support some company line.  My post was a simple question as I didn't understand what would cause your average person to be screwing with their PC so much, if you found even that simple request for information offensive, I think you may be just a wee bit too sensitive.

Edited April 10, 2015 by sburke

[Ron]

I can tell you in emails to me from support, they freely admit their DRM has some issues with being fairly oversensitive to minor changes to a PC config.  I think they have made attempts to fix it and my last go around was less troublesome.  The problem right now is I have used up all my activations with everything except CMBS...through no fault of my own.  I probably have 15 versions of gsclean on my drive.  My main gripe is I have no activations left.  BFC won't reset them.  Every time I get a new PC, I have to submit a ticket and beg for a new activation.  There are others of us in the same situation.  Their poor DRM implementation has taken those activations away, never to return.

 

Any company that wants to put DRM in their products, all the power to them.  But use one that works.  My gaming time is limited.  I get 4-5 hour spots to play.  I have lost track of the number of times I have gone to fire CM up after adding RAM, a video driver, and even a USB headset, and gotten a DRM kill on my system.  Support usually has it squared away in 24 hours, but by then, I don't have time any more.

 

I have to agree with sburke here. While an inconvenience to you, your actions are the exception not the norm. I would have no hesitation saying that the overwhelming majority of customers are unaffected, or if they are then use one of the surplus activations provided. No offense but stating the problem is no fault of your own is not entirely reasonable.

[Thewood1]

So I am not allowed to add RAM, update audio drivers, etc.  I have to have a dedicated PC for CM2.  I would suggest doing some searches on the tech forums or on grogheads for people talking about losing activation.

 

I am not against DRM, I am against it not being implemented correctly.  Again, I'll point out that I am not the only one with this issue.  Go look through CMBN tech forums.

 

If BFC knows the DRM is overly sensitive, they should fix it.  This particular DRM makes me feel like my PC is held hostage.  Every time I have add anything to my PC, I now have to figure out if it will kill an activation and if its worth it.

 

I can't believe someone is unreasonable enough to suggest lugging around two PCs.  And then someone thinks its my fault I upgrade it just change some basic configurations.  There is no disclaimer on the purchase page saying you should have a dedicated PC or limit PC upgrades.

[Lacroix]

bottom line is, if they will give you key every time you ask , in a reasonbale time, its ok. if thats not the case,then they are worst company in the world. fine i can live with 1930s tech and instalations and stuff, but don't limit my game time

i am sure i will personally find out soon, when i run out of keys

[sburke]

Please don't misquote me, I was not telling you what to do, I was making an inquiry out of curiosity and a possible suggestion within the current situation to at least allow you to be able to play the game.

I don't know your travel requirements and honestly don't care. I travel internationally a lot, just ask my pbem opponents. I just don't play CM when on the road. Yes that sucks, but honestly I am usually too busy to consider a game anyway.

I frankly don't know if BF actually creates the DRM and aren't using another vendors in which case your real complaint is to a third party. If the price though of protecting BFs software is a choice between your inconvience in an admittedly non typical scenario or BF having a less effective DRM then I know which way I go. I know that sucks for you and I am sorry for that. Perhaps BF will come up with another option for something less sensitive but still good enough, but the security of their product does have to come first for the survival of their business.

[fireship4]

IIRC, the activation system does not apply to the boxed copy of the game - if you buy a physical copy you can install and reinstall it.  I read this earlier today on their helpdesk site and have linked it below, but you should confirm with them to be sure.

 

http://battlefront.mojohelpdesk.com/help/article/127981

[Kieme(ITA)]

Probably the store/retail phrase was added when CM games were distributed by that other distributor, what was it, paradox?

[Wiggum15]

Thewood1 is 100% correct, the DRM for the CMx2 games is unfair and way to restrictive, they need to do something about that !

Edited April 10, 2015 by Wiggum15

[fireship4]

Probably the store/retail phrase was added when CM games were distributed by that other distributor, what was it, paradox?

 

The post was modified in 2014, so I don't know if they had (or ever had - my boxed copy of CMSF was published by Battlefront) a separate publisher then.

[Malakie]

I get a kick out of those defending DRM and those with the "show me one documented case of...."  blah blah..

Well I am that case..   I spent over a year and a half being unable to play the games I purchased because of the Battlefront DRM.  I had no way TO ACTIVATE them. I lost my main hard drive in a hard failure.  Upon replacing it, I was not able to use what I bought because I had no way to activate it.

It was not until a short time ago that I was once again able to use the very software I purchased.   While some people may have enjoyed full time on demand internet, there are many others that are dependent on metered data or connections that are temporary or in some cases, not even available as was my case.

Which is why going forward I am very slow to purchase any additional titles that contain this kind of limited use DRM.    While, as some of you say, we can always contact admin for more codes etc, that is not a solution for situations that do not have access to phone or internet.  Nor is it a solution should something ever happen to the company itself..   Not saying they would or are in danger of it, but they could close down tomorrow and all of us would be screwed royally because we would never be able to use our software again because there would be no way to activate it.

Personally, I have actually moved to the STEAM model because at least I can go offline and still have full use and access to all my software.. even if I change HD's and restore from backup...  with Battlefront's DRM you cannot do that.  The difference is STEAM keeps the activations within the STEAM client and directory files where Battlefront does so via the registry... and once your registry gets screwed... so are you..  With Steam I can copy over the backup and use what I purchased still as long as it is not modified or altered in any manner... Steam also does not limit your activations.. it makes ownership and use seamless while still giving devs piracy protection...  There is a reason so many devs and so many customers have flocked to Steam.

Anyhow, I ended up here today because of this very issue.. I tried Bitdefenders (this is the second time I have tried this product and ended up with it screwing things up - never again) latest version and it totally screwed my system by locking out some of my files and altering security settings on my system... To the point I cannot even take ownership of certain directories as ADMIN or otherwise... I now have no choice but to wipe and re-install everything...  Last time I had to do this was 3 years ago..   I cannot even imagine what I am going to lose.

Anyhow, that is my thoughts on this argument..  My hope is someday Battlefront gets rid of this entire system.  Piracy is no where near the problem it used to be.  Not even close.  And why bother with hacked, cracked software when for a small amount of money you get something you can usually trust without having to jump through hoops, used cracked files and so forth just to run?

 

[Baneman]

Unfortunately you sound like the worst case situation ( although I struggle to imagine the circumstances in which you would be unable to get your PC physically to an internet connection for 18 months ).

However, no company on the planet is likely to change their DRM approach due to the struggles of one customer ( I myself hate having to log in to Steam to play games that I'm not playing over the internet, but they aint going to change their policy for me either  )

And even though you say "Piracy is nowhere near the problem it used to be", given the relentless regularity with which threads proclaiming "CM is too expensive" pop up, I'm pretty sure that people would pirate the S**t out of it - especially since it is a good game - no one bothers to pirate rubbish

[c3k]

Perhaps I misunderstand what you're saying. My interpretation:

1. You don't have reliable internet.

2. Your hard-drive crashed.

3. You could not reactivate after a reinstall because...? You'd used up all your licensing? 

4. You could not contact BFC via email?

5. For a year you had no internet?

6. Therefore, you're relying on a streaming service, Steam, to stay away from BFC's one-time activation requirement???

 

You lost me.

 

[Thewood1]

While the post is a little sketchy...its more than just one person who has had issues the DRM and activations.  Take a walk through the support forums after a release.  Most issues get resolved, but I have never done a reinstall without support having to send me the rsclean tool to fix activations.

[Los]

I'd like to pitch in here. I own all the CM products and multiple copies  as well as we have 4 gaming capable  machines at my house (inc laptops).  Me and my kids will sometimes play LAN. Whatever. Point is at somepoint over the years (15+) and sometimes multiple points I have had crashes, virus attacks, things happen to PCs. If you use your PC a lot (and if there are teenagers around) these are basic things that are apt to happen.  (Last month two machines went down within a week, including a very yucky liquid cooling failure!)  I do agree with everyone that the DRM is hinky and when you own all the modules and you won v2 and version 3 upgrades it can be ponderous to deal with this BS when there are other DRMs out there. At this point I do appreciate the steam model of drm for this reason. 

However, every time I have had to reinstall and have been out of activations I have put in a ticket, and battlefront have responded rapidly and helped me fix my issue. So following the tech support process has worked for me. I am not trying to minimize issues others are having with their activations.

Also Steve knows that several times when I was deployed overseas, I could walk right out of the base a buy copies of Combat mission from the local CD vendor. So people do pirate stuff!

 

Los

Edited October 1, 2015 by Los

[Thewood1]

So the DRM isn't stopping the pirates...I thought that was the point of us paying customers having to deal with it.

[Los]

Well the pirated copies I saw were back when only CM 1 was out. My point wasn't that the DRM can be defeated, but that even some lowly little game like CM isn't above being pirated.

[Battlefront.com]

When I logged into the forum today I smelled something of a distinct odor.  The kind that comes from backsides.  In finally narrowed it down to this thread.  Wow, what a load of crap that got dumped in here!

First, a belated response to some old crap that has since dried up, but should have been addressed when it was fresh.

So I am not allowed to add RAM, update audio drivers, etc.

Sure you are.  What is preventing you from adding RAM?  Nothing.  The worst that might happen is your game will stop working, you have to ask for a code reset, we reset your code, and you're fine again.  Usually within a few hours.  Ooo... that's so horrible!

 

I am not against DRM, I am against it not being implemented correctly.  Again, I'll point out that I am not the only one with this issue.  Go look through CMBN tech forums.

Define "correctly"?

If BFC knows the DRM is overly sensitive, they should fix it.  This particular DRM makes me feel like my PC is held hostage.  Every time I have add anything to my PC, I now have to figure out if it will kill an activation and if its worth it.

The DRM is not overly sensitive.  It's just that at some point a computer stops looking like the computer that was licensed.  For some, Windows 10 Upgrade pushed them over the edge after years of making other changes.

 

 

I can't believe someone is unreasonable enough to suggest lugging around two PCs.  And then someone thinks its my fault I upgrade it just change some basic configurations.  There is no disclaimer on the purchase page saying you should have a dedicated PC or limit PC upgrades.

How flipp'n difficult is it to file a Ticket to ask for a key reset?  Other people do it without much problem, so what's so special about you?  You seem perfectly capable of complaining about things by typing tons of nonsense AND not getting a problem solved, so one would think you could be troubled to type much less into a Ticket and have the problem fixed within hours.

Now onto the fresh load...

I get a kick out of those defending DRM and those with the "show me one documented case of...."  blah blah..

Well I am that case..   I spent over a year and a half being unable to play the games I purchased because of the Battlefront DRM.  I had no way TO ACTIVATE them. I lost my main hard drive in a hard failure.  Upon replacing it, I was not able to use what I bought because I had no way to activate it.

You had no way to reactive your games?  My gosh, did it ever occur to you in a year and a half that your problem could be solved within a few minutes if you simply asked us to reset your keys?  And if you couldn't come up with that thought all on your own, you couldn't figure out how to ask someone how to get your problem resolved?

Personally, I have actually moved to the STEAM model because at least I can go offline and still have full use and access to all my software.. even if I change HD's and restore from backup...  with Battlefront's DRM you cannot do that.  The difference is STEAM keeps the activations within the STEAM client and directory files where Battlefront does so via the registry... and once your registry gets screwed... so are you..

The real difference is that STEAM requires you to have a constant connection to the mothership in order to play the games you purchased.  Our customers told us they did not want a solution like that, so we didn't go with that sort of solution.  And once again, the only people who are "screwed" by our DRM are those people who (for who knows what reason) don't contact us for a fix.

Anyhow, that is my thoughts on this argument..  My hope is someday Battlefront gets rid of this entire system.  Piracy is no where near the problem it used to be.  Not even close.  And why bother with hacked, cracked software when for a small amount of money you get something you can usually trust without having to jump through hoops, used cracked files and so forth just to run?

 

There's an old saying that you should take to heart.  If you have no idea what you are talking about, it is best not to demonstrate that for everybody by opening your mouth. 

Hacking/cracking is more an issue now than it has ever been.  Going out of business is not an acceptable outcome for anybody, so DRM is a necessary evil.  And so far our DRM has never been cracked and therefore it's serving its purpose quite well.

I'd like to pitch in here. I own all the CM products and multiple copies  as well as we have 4 gaming capable  machines at my house (inc laptops).  Me and my kids will sometimes play LAN. Whatever. Point is at somepoint over the years (15+) and sometimes multiple points I have had crashes, virus attacks, things happen to PCs. If you use your PC a lot (and if there are teenagers around) these are basic things that are apt to happen.  (Last month two machines went down within a week, including a very yucky liquid cooling failure!)  I do agree with everyone that the DRM is hinky and when you own all the modules and you won v2 and version 3 upgrades it can be ponderous to deal with this BS when there are other DRMs out there. At this point I do appreciate the steam model of drm for this reason. 

However, every time I have had to reinstall and have been out of activations I have put in a ticket, and battlefront have responded rapidly and helped me fix my issue. So following the tech support process has worked for me. I am not trying to minimize issues others are having with their activations.

This is a nice summary.  DRM sucks.  We all hate it, including us.  But it isn't the horrible, customer screwing experience some people want everybody to believe it is.  The alternatives are not good for us and so people have a simple choice to make... accept the DRM we use or not buy our games.  I can promise everybody that we'll lose less money by people boycotting our games because of the DRM than we will lose by going with no DRM or a super expensive service like STEAM.  Which is to say, if someone wants to exercise their right to not buy, they can do that.  But it won't change anything on our side of the equation.

Also Steve knows that several times when I was deployed overseas, I could walk right out of the base a buy copies of Combat mission from the local CD vendor. So people do pirate stuff!

For the record, this was the old CMx1 games which had a rinky-dink CD-must-be-in-drive check that was, indeed, hacked.  Nobody has successfully cracked our games for about 12-13 years.  Which means Los is showing his age

Steve

Edited October 2, 2015 by Battlefront.com

[Battlefront.com]

Perhaps I misunderstand what you're saying. My interpretation:

1. You don't have reliable internet.

2. Your hard-drive crashed.

3. You could not reactivate after a reinstall because...? You'd used up all your licensing? 

4. You could not contact BFC via email?

5. For a year you had no internet?

6. Therefore, you're relying on a streaming service, Steam, to stay away from BFC's one-time activation requirement???

 

You lost me.

 

Don't look for a rational argument where there is none.

If someone has no Internet access to their computer they can still email us and get an offline activation.  That can be done using a phone, an Internet cafe computer, a family member's computer, a work computer, or (if they exist) a friend's computer.

There is absolutely no way, none, that a person is forced into a position where they can not use the software they purchase from us.  None.  Anybody that says otherwise is lying or not very good with reading comprehension.  Either way, it's still a bunch of BS to say our DRM is the core problem.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Side note about the DRM issues with CMBN specifically.

Here the problem is that the game has been around for a long time and has been appended with Upgrades and various add on content.  This made things quite difficult for us in terms of installers and DRM.  That's the downside of offering people a product that doesn't deadend.  But we do learn as we go and we took corrective action to overcome the core reasons why CMBN installations/licenses were getting frustrating for people.  As with most things, this required a bit of a period of transition.  Except for new customers, of course.  Smooth sailing for them.

There are still more things we can do to smooth out the DRM and installer process for all products now that we've figured out where the remaining bumps are.  It's not something we can snap our fingers and fix overnight, but there are some less common issues which we can clean up soon.

Steve

[Thewood1]

Thanks for replying to a six month old comment.  Btw, your own tech support people have conceded the issues with the DRM.

Again, in the spirit of keeping a six month old thread going, Making changes in PC configs an exercise in having to contact support and get the gsclean utility is not an isolated incident.  While its not exactly widespread, I always weigh in when one of the beta brigade tries minimize it or give the impression the specific customer is doing something wrong. 

Over the last couple of years, the DRM has had issues.  They are not isolated.  BFC has attempted to fix them.   It has taken years.  It is better.  There are still some issues.  I am pretty frustrated at times that people like me who have the issues are made to feel we are doing something wrong, when tech support admits it is an issue with the DRM.  

[Battlefront.com]

Thanks for replying to a six month old comment.  

Yup, didn't notice until after.  Still, I said nothing today that I wouldn't have said to you 6 months ago if I had seen it fresh.

Btw, your own tech support people have conceded the issues with the DRM.

You mean John and I?  Because we're the only one doing tech support, therefore I'm pretty well acquainted with what the issues are and are not.  And that informed understanding is what is in my responses.

Again, in the spirit of keeping a six month old thread going, Making changes in PC configs an exercise in having to contact support and get the gsclean utility is not an isolated incident.  While its not exactly widespread, I always weigh in when one of the beta brigade tries minimize it or give the impression the specific customer is doing something wrong. 

Two different issues.  First, the extent of the problem.  I know how many people out there are licensed and I know how many people we send gsclean to.  If you think something that involves a fraction of 1% of our customer base is a massive and horrid problem, then I suggest you don't have a very healthy assessment of what a real problem is.

Second issue is about clearing the problem up.  For the few people that get bit by an issue that requires gsclean, almost always it's cleared up within a minute of us sending one to the customer.  On rare occasions it goes beyond that, usually due to "user error" (most common is telling us the antivirus is disabled and then finding out it isn't).  Unlike some, I do not view "user error" as anything more than an identification of what is causing a problem.  I hold no judgement when someone fumbles something.  We all do it at some point, especially those less technologically inclined.  We work through the problems and get a good outcome with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions a year.  Again, we find this to be an acceptable outcome since it's near perfect and perfect is an impossible goal.

Over the last couple of years, the DRM has had issues.  They are not isolated.  BFC has attempted to fix them.   It has taken years.  It is better.  There are still some issues.  I am pretty frustrated at times that people like me who have the issues are made to feel we are doing something wrong, when tech support admits it is an issue with the DRM.  

I think your definitions are a little wacky.  The DRM works and works just fine.  Sometimes conditions crop up that have to be worked around but they are worked around.  That's just how it goes.  No system is perfect, and our tech support load is extremely small compared to the number of trouble free users.  Where we can make improvements we are.  But there is no crisis for us to solve as claimed.  That is a fact.

And if you, or anybody else, is wondering why I'm coming on so strongly it is rather simple.  I do not appreciate Chicken Little situations where a couple of people try to convince everybody that the sky is falling when it most certainly is not.  And the stronger they make a case for the sky falling, the stronger my response will be.

Steve

[Thewood1]

Both Schullencraft and Elvis have dealt with me numerous times.  I have at least 7-8 gsclean emails over the last few years.  And that is not counting other activation issues.  When you guys reply, you reply with gsclean very quickly...but it has taken as long as 48 hours to get a response.  I have no issue with response times...but when I have the time to play, I have little flexibility in it.  So by the time I get gsclean, I have no time to use it.

So let's say we take your number of 1%.  Most companies are striving for six-sigma levels of service.  That seems to be a fairly poor mark.  You obviously aren't reading my posts.  I explicitly say its not a widespread problem.  But I am pointing out that its not just 1-2 whiners.  Go back and read the support threads.  Saw someone at grogheads did a quick analysis on a few dozen DRM issues that required intervention over a year.  Not an ungodly number, but enough o make most software companies sit up and take notice.  You yourselves have changed your install and DRM systems a couple times.  I am sure you didn't do it just for fun.  

I  completely understand the difficulty in managing IP and DRM systems.  I have actually done it before at a company called Intellution/GE.  But we never deluded ourselves that DRM issues were isolated incidents.  If we had more than 10 in a year, there would be hell to pay.  And that was on software selling for $10k an install.

[womble]

So let's say we take your number of 1%.

When you're trying to convince people that you're not playing "Chicken Little", playing fast and loose with numbers isn't going to help you.

Steve said:

...a fraction of 1% of our customer base...

Now, I don't know whether that fraction is 0.9 or 0.001. Some people sometimes use "fraction" colloquially to mean "a very small portion", so it could be that thousandth.

[Thewood1]

My point stands...there are more than a couple people with issues.  I'll find the link to grogheads where it was discussed.  You'll note people don't discuss it here because this is the end result.  I tried to present a balanced argument about the issues with comments throughout about BFC addressing them.  I have tried to show I understand the difficulty in managing IP issues and DRM implementations.  My point is, again, it not just a couple people.