Soldiers shoulder-firing PTRD in CMRT..

[bisu]

Was PTRD shoulder fired at all IRL? Never seen evidence confirming this..

Weapon length is 2m and weight about 15 kgs after all..

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I doubt it. Normally it seems to be firedfrom a prone position like this

I haven't seen this weapon being fired from a shoulder position in game but if this is happening screen shots would evidence this. I would be rather surprised if it were happening but if it is I would assume a bug

[AttorneyAtWar]

Was PTRD shoulder fired at all IRL? Never seen evidence confirming this..

Weapon length is 2m and weight about 15 kgs after all..

It is probably just an abstraction of them firing it in a foxhole ETC. The soldier model probably wasn't in a good position from where it was firing.

[c3k]

Do you have a screenshot?

[bisu]

Here you are:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymgukvfa8m2o86b/PTRD.jpg

In the situation pictured above the soldier actually shot and scored a penetration in a halftrack..

[General Lee Irked]

Maybe this shooter is the father of Vasiliy Ivanovich Alekseyev... geneticaly strong. Take that! Master race.

[mjkerner]

I've seen them fire from standing position as well. No screenies until my Photobucket account reset son May 1.

[James Crowley]

This cropped up in beta testing and, from memory, was explained by the firer not being able to get LoS from an awkward position, such as in a trench, where firing prone would look too odd.

[Oddball_E8]

This is an abstraction of course. It represents them using a tree branch, boulder or something like that to rest the gun on.

Sure, it'll look wierd in open country, but that's the price you have to pay for abstraction.

I've seen them fire from standing position as well. No screenies until my Photobucket account reset son May 1.

Use tinypic instead until it resets. Works fine as an interim hoster.

[Saferight]

[c3k]

Here you are:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymgukvfa8m2o86b/PTRD.jpg

In the situation pictured above the soldier actually shot and scored a penetration in a halftrack..

Thanks.

My understanding is that it should not be fired that way in the game (obviously it should not be fired that way IRL), but there may be gameplay reasons why it was coded that way.

Off to doublecheck...

Ken

[c3k]

That man is sinisterly dextrous!!

[jtsjc1]

I don't believe with the recoil energy alone it was possible to shoulder fire the weapon. I would think it was always on a rest or bipod.

[womble]

C'mon guys. It's an abstraction. Like all the times MG42 gunners shoulder the thing to fire. You expect every animation to be perfectly integrated with the terrain? When the technical limitations lead to backwards hands and shoulder-implanted ATRs? When moving pTruppen skid the last couple of metres (or more) to their rest? When passengers in halftracks under fire sit bolt upright with their helmets above the rim of the superstructure? There are plenty of abstractions with greater impact and/or worse appearance than this.

[sburke]

C'mon guys. It's an abstraction. Like all the times MG42 gunners shoulder the thing to fire. You expect every animation to be perfectly integrated with the terrain? When the technical limitations lead to backwards hands and shoulder-implanted ATRs? When moving pTruppen skid the last couple of metres (or more) to their rest? When passengers in halftracks under fire sit bolt upright with their helmets above the rim of the superstructure? There are plenty of abstractions with greater impact and/or worse appearance than this.

oh sure, now you're just being rational.

[Oddball_E8]

C'mon guys. It's an abstraction. Like all the times MG42 gunners shoulder the thing to fire. You expect every animation to be perfectly integrated with the terrain? When the technical limitations lead to backwards hands and shoulder-implanted ATRs? When moving pTruppen skid the last couple of metres (or more) to their rest? When passengers in halftracks under fire sit bolt upright with their helmets above the rim of the superstructure? There are plenty of abstractions with greater impact and/or worse appearance than this.

We don't take kindly to people who are rational here!

[womble]

Aw, shucks. You guys say the nicest things! [big hugs]

[LukeFF]

C'mon guys. It's an abstraction. Like all the times MG42 gunners shoulder the thing to fire. You expect every animation to be perfectly integrated with the terrain? When the technical limitations lead to backwards hands and shoulder-implanted ATRs? When moving pTruppen skid the last couple of metres (or more) to their rest? When passengers in halftracks under fire sit bolt upright with their helmets above the rim of the superstructure? There are plenty of abstractions with greater impact and/or worse appearance than this.

All that means is that there are some still really ugly animations that still need to be worked out after all these years. Guys shoulder-firing certain machine guns is certainly plausible in CMSF, but it's certainly not with weapons like the PTRD and the MG42. TBH the "it's an abstraction!" excuse is getting a bit old, given that we're now 7 years away from when CMx2 made its debut.

[ASL Veteran]

All that means is that there are some still really ugly animations that still need to be worked out after all these years.

No, that's not really what it means. What it means is that there are only three possible firing positions that your truppen can draw LOS from. Since there are only three positions that your truppen can spot and fire from then there aren't any additional animations to be worked out. If you want all your MG42s and ATRs to fire from the prone position then there will be many times that they can't see anything to fire at which will result in much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[womble]

And getting animations to fit every aspect of terrain, resting their bipod, for example, on an approrpriate elevated element or team member doesn't come under the heading of "ugly that needs tidying up", it comes under the heading of "impossible to practically code for a game with as wide a scope and narrow a level of detail as CMx2". Maybe one day we'll see troops behind low walls or shooting from windows use the top of the wall, or the sill to support their bipods. But I doubt it. It's the kind of graphical chrome that's unnecessary, and it requires coder-time, not 3D artist time (unlike the also-unnecessary internal graphical detail of AFVs).

It's a game. There will always have to be abstractions. Until it can be rendered in eye-resolution 3D with every wrinkle of terrain and blade of grass exactly placed and accounted for, and we're a very long way from that. Hell, tanks can't even run pTruppen over, for good and obvious reasons.

[Baneman]

...(unlike the also-unnecessary internal graphical detail of AFVs).

...

Weeeell, it's not totally unnecessary - given the number of times my camera moves through an AFV, it would be pretty jarring if there wasn't something in there that looked somewhat like it should.

I agree with everything else you said, though

[Foreigner]

Actually, I've read in some memoirs (IIRC at the iremember.ru site) about a case of an ATR being fired from the shoulder standing - what is more, standing on a fellow soldier's shoulders! Apparently, they were in a ditch about 2m deep, and that was the only way to reach over the edge. Of course, it was a risky, strictly one-shot-at-a-time affair, as the recoil simply knocked the shooter (possibly the fellow standing below him, as well) back into the ditch. Then they had to dust off, and repeat the whole climbing-then-shooting-then-falling back exercise again. The memoir claimed they did score a couple of knock-outs...

Then there was a video of 2 Germans shooting a MG-34 (I believe) from a standing position by resting the barrel on the shoulder of one of them...

Never underestimate the toughness and ingenuity in battlefield expedients!

[Skwabie]

Then there was a video of 2 Germans shooting a MG-34 (I believe) from a standing position by resting the barrel on the shoulder of one of them...

meh in Korea the chinese does that all the time against aircrafts...

[Saferight]

Then there was a video of 2 Germans shooting a MG-34 (I believe) from a standing position by resting the barrel on the shoulder of one of them...

[LukeFF]

And getting animations to fit every aspect of terrain, resting their bipod, for example, on an approrpriate elevated element or team member doesn't come under the heading of "ugly that needs tidying up", it comes under the heading of "impossible to practically code for a game with as wide a scope and narrow a level of detail as CMx2". Maybe one day we'll see troops behind low walls or shooting from windows use the top of the wall, or the sill to support their bipods. But I doubt it. It's the kind of graphical chrome that's unnecessary, and it requires coder-time, not 3D artist time (unlike the also-unnecessary internal graphical detail of AFVs).

Graphical chrome? Sorry, but if the player has put his bipod-equipped team in a position from where they can't engage the enemy from the prone position, then they need to move them to a spot from where they can.

And yes, I do think that the animations need to be re-done if a bipod-equipped weapon is being fired from a trench, inside a building, or behind a low wall. It's part of the visual presentation of the game to have the troops moving about and firing their weapons like they would in reality, which unfortunately hasn't changed a whole lot over the years. Stopping troops from doing that bunny-hop over low walls and fences was about the last big improvement to animations that we've had that I can recall. I'm still waiting for troops to stop that ridiculous ice-skating movement across the terrain and using that "curl up into a fetal position" animation they use every time they're taking cover from enemy fire and their morale is still intact.