c3k Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 ^^^ Agreed. The Panther is VERY vulnerable to any side shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yes the loss of Arty is serious and as the call was made he will not be able to regain control. Often if I think my spotter is going to get nailed I cancel the call so I can get the arty back later. Serious mistake... (Mind you I guess at that stage he did not know mr Flam Thrower was around?) Lets hope he does not *ugger it up with the Panther. They are not knife fighting tools he needs to be sat back with good LOS... Ohh well he may yet pull it back... (I hope) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yes the loss of Arty is serious and as the call was made he will not be able to regain control. That defect was fixed long ago. I have in the latest CMBN and CMFI got my arty *back* after a while. The battery will no longer keep shooting spotting rounds in the vein hope that the FO will answer. At some point the battery will just cancel the mission themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Bil noticed Elvis's Panthers are buttoned, but it really is a double edge sword considering how quick an opened tank commander can die. I would like to see improved reactions in open tanks when they take inf fire from known closer ranges. I'm talking when the TC tries to have a mounted MG vs inf duel when the MG is not using its range advantage. More than once I have yelled at the screen button up!, and then they die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That defect was fixed long ago. I have in the latest CMBN and CMFI got my arty *back* after a while. The battery will no longer keep shooting spotting rounds in the vein hope that the FO will answer. At some point the battery will just cancel the mission themselves. So as soon as the FO caller dies does the arty now get cancelled. I thought it will still take quite some time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So as soon as the FO caller dies does the arty now get cancelled. That's not what he said. I thought it will still take quite some time? That's what "...after a while..." and "...at some point..." means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 In this situation Elvis' 120mm mortars are effectively out of the fight. If he were to plot a new mission right now by the time it came down the battle would already be decided. I think this will rank as a significant factor in how the rest of the game plays out. Handling artillery well is an extremely tricky thing to do. I don't care how many hours of CM play one has, everybody makes mistakes that result in artillery effectively having no impact on the game. Mistakes are just so damned easy to make, just as in real life. This is why I use the philosophy of figuring out where the enemy is going, when he'll be there, and plot accordingly. If I'm a little off I tend not to change my mission because delays generally produce worse end results. Note this is NOT true for low level mortars like 60mm and even 81/82mm Mortars. The delays are short enough that retargeting generally isn't too much of a problem. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Bah. I use my artillery to mark where I want MY men to go! I set up a concentration about 250m distant and charge towards the spotting rounds. My men don't get lost and any enemy there are suppressed. Sure, while I'm yelling "ceasefire" some of my men take hits, but that just motivates them to move to the NEXT objective that much more rapidly. It's all in the outlook... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Quote: Originally Posted by ian.leslie View Post That defect was fixed long ago. I have in the latest CMBN and CMFI got my arty *back* after a while. The battery will no longer keep shooting spotting rounds in the vein hope that the FO will answer. At some point the battery will just cancel the mission themselves. So as soon as the FO caller dies does the arty now get cancelled. I thought it will still take quite some time? Hi Ian, Sorry my original post should have included the word "might" and I think the above was trying to clarify if any further code change had been made. Sorry if that was not clear. So I think what you are saying is that his arty will come back but spotting rounds will continue to fall until the arty battery give up, which could be quite a long time? I thought that the code was still in such a state that there is a possibility that it might never come back, but maybe that has been changed... I have not had the misfortune in any of my recent games to have spotters die after some bad experiences. Either way it is a very serious turn of events and even the temporary loss of arty as a defender at a critical moment can swing the game. Lets hope he gets it back with enough rounds to make a difference... I do think Elvis is the underdog and I would like the battle to be a close fight for both players... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 As far as I know the firing unit will "give up" trying to fulfill the mission and then will be available for other use. The problem is it can take several minutes for this to happen, depending on when the FO is interrupted. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks Steve, and as you point out the delay with the 120mm Mortars could mean they are out of use for this game. I will have to dig further back to see if he has a FO available to help shorten delivery time, when he gets the mortars back on line... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah, I got to think that missed opportunity for Elvis to call down arty before Blau in a timely manner is game, set and match. Perhaps against another opponent he may be able to claw back to a semi even footing, but I cannot see it happening against Bil even if Bil fumbles handling the Soviet armour. (not likely) I did not see it, but does Elvis have any hand held anti-armour ability? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terkin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 He has a Panzerschrek or two (somewhere lying in the ambush) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks - hindsight but too bad that wasn't present when the flame tank rolled up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Didn't Bil comment that Blau is just a feint? And Elvis said that he was surprised by the apparent small number of attacking infantry against Blah. So he seems to suspect that something's up too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yup, Elvis does seem to think something is up. Funny... my humble plan for this was to give up Blau easily since it was unlikely all three could be held. It will be interesting to see how Bil's drive on OBJ Gelb is going to impact Elvis' current thinking. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That would have made sense, if only to preserve Elvis' numbers. Don't touch that dial! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Thanks Steve, and as you point out the delay with the 120mm Mortars could mean they are out of use for this game. I will have to dig further back to see if he has a FO available to help shorten delivery time, when he gets the mortars back on line... Elvis just confirmed he had but one unit to use those mortars. And now it's gone. Which means the mortars are totally out. I don't want to heap blame on my buddy Elvis, but this could be a game changing mistake. Hindsight: 1. If you only have one unit to call in your artillery, do not get them anywhere near danger. Elvis ran these guys out in the open and got lucky, but ran them into a known threat area and did not get lucky. That's two mistakes, one of which hit him hard. 2. If your only artillery comes with a hefty delay time, make sure to use it fairly early in the battle when there's a chance it can make a difference. Especially in a QB when there's no indication what the enemy had for forces and a scenario designer didn't try to balance things. 3. Use the artillery predictively instead of reactively. Make the bed, lie in it, and hope for sweat dreams If Elvis had hit Bil with the 120s I can see Bil having to alter his plans, or at least screw up his time table. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hmmm, not good... A TRP (ideally two) is really needed with long delay arty. Esp if you have no FO. More so on defence as you can make a reasonable guess where you want to make the enemy fight and can park it where they will have to hunker down... Ohh well he must focus on his tanks as they are his only hope... Lets hope he can make them work for him... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Time for Elvis to pull everyone to ROT for a glorious last stand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Elvis just confirmed he had but one unit to use those mortars. And now it's gone. Which means the mortars are totally out. Is it not true that if any HQ can call an asset, all HQs can? In FI (and BN, I think but haven't checked there), 120mm mortars aren't "FO-required" assets, so any HQ can use them... Is that different in RT? Or is it the fact that they're "Stragglers" so some HQs aren't arty-privileged? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 If an HQ has contact, it can call it in. The time delay is what distinguishes a FO from an HQ. I thought Elvis had said he didn't have another HQ to direct the fire, but given his latest post that isn't the case. But a 6 minute delay... too late to make a significant difference, me thinks. Especially now that Bil is running amok in his rear with the T-34s and tank riders. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hmmm, not good... A TRP (ideally two) is really needed with long delay arty. Esp if you have no FO. More so on defence as you can make a reasonable guess where you want to make the enemy fight and can park it where they will have to hunker down... Ohh well he must focus on his tanks as they are his only hope... Lets hope he can make them work for him... I counseled getting a couple of TRPs as did others, were they not available? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I have a feeling Elvis doesn't love "The Love Spot" anymore. I knew it was going to end bad for him over there with no good retreat terrain. I believe Bil said 21 dead, or captured infantry from that position. That hits Elvis hard as he does not have the amount of men to spare as much as Bil. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If I am reading the map correctly he also now has armor on two sides of him as well...definitely going to cramp him up some. Elvis is between a rock and a hard spot imho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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